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Equipment Failure and consequences.
- Thread starter Glenn Phipps
- Start date
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I consider this a PSA. Pictured is one of 4 fractures, this one on the tailstock, cam lock, of a new Grizzly G0462 lathe that resulted in a ruined bowl and injury to the operator. This same company had 2 Banjo catastrophic failures and one faceplate that turned loose at the spindle. All of these failures happened while turning resulting in damage and two lost bowls and injury. Make sure your equipment is sound and trustworthy to avoid what could result in material loss and serious bodily injury. I have no confidence in this 4 month old lathe I purchased from Grizzly and am replacing it before I suffer more serious injury. The grain on their cast iron is very coarse. It is my opinion they have a very bad recipe for their cast iron.
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What are your options in dealing with Grizzly? Refund? Lawsuit?
Certainly seems like something needs to happen.
Glad your injuries were not life threatening.
Certainly seems like something needs to happen.
Glad your injuries were not life threatening.
What is a PSA?
I agree that the break shown is a manufacturing defect and that 3 such casting breaks would make me very skeptical of the maker's products. I hope you weren't seriously injured.
Was the faceplate incident due to a defect or did it unscrew because of rapid deceleration with a heavy blank mounted, or some other reason?
I agree that the break shown is a manufacturing defect and that 3 such casting breaks would make me very skeptical of the maker's products. I hope you weren't seriously injured.
Was the faceplate incident due to a defect or did it unscrew because of rapid deceleration with a heavy blank mounted, or some other reason?
I remember the early Grizzly days, and that is why I don't have any of their tools in my shop. Still don't trust their quality, or lack of quality. Their commercial machines seemed to be much better, but hobby level, not so good. Yes, manufacturing is seldom 100% perfect, but they seem to have a higher % of low quality items.
robo hippy
robo hippy
The faceplate broke completely loose at the spindle. it was only a deep bruise and abrasion but could have been worse.
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PSA is public service announcement
They gave me a very unrealistic time frame 15 days to crate and return the machine for refund or they would void the warranty "due to application of excessive force and strain placed on the machine." The woman making this determination as never been at a lathe neither has her technical consultant at Grizzly. It took them 14 days to get the lathe to me after I purchased it in April.
A deep bruise and abrasions. I'm still weighing my options. If the warranty is good for 15 days it should be good for the one year stated which would be 4/2/23.
faceplate broke completely loose at the spindle. fairly light weight fairly well balanced blank.
Wow! I've owned a few Grizzly tools, and have gotten rid of all of them. Quality is just not there. I would definitely replace the lathe with a more reputable manufacturer.
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Glad there was no serious injury.
Was there a catch? A steel faceplate will take a lot of abuse. A severe catch will break cast iron.
I’ve seen several cast iron banjos broken by a severe catch
Did all the fractures show up at the same time?
Perhaps the machine was dropped in transit.
This machine seems to be a “ lemon” either from manufacture or shipping.
I do have catches from time to time due to carelessness mostly but none of these breakages to my recollection other than one of the banjo breaks was a catch but not severe enough that it should have caused the break he others were not at the time of a catch. I think they have a bad recipe for the metals formula used for their cast iron.
The fractures happened at different times. The faceplate was the first, next, banjos then the tailstock over a period of 2 and a hafl months. I knew something wasn't right when I first started using the lathe and come to find out the spindle was 3/16 out of true in rotation. sent it back they said the spindle was bent. The crate was undamaged but 2 subsequent shipments one the replacement headstock which developed a loud knock after the first hour of operation came in a crate with the end busted out but the headstock appeared undamaged so I accepted it. It's just been one thing after another with Grizzly. Now customer service is threatening to apply a excessive force rule and void the warrant if I don't get it crated and shipped back in 15 days. It took them 14 days to get it to me when I ordered it.
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I'm looking at Rikon or Harvey or if this real estate deal goes through I'll step up to a Robust American Beauty.
I have a Robust Sweet 16 and it is one of the best quality lathes I have ever used. Brent is fantastic to work with. You definitely will not be disappointed if you purchase one. A few of my fellow OVWG members have AB's and they really enjoy turning on them!
This grizzly in it's performance or lack thereof has taken a lot of the pleasure out of turning for me. It does not perform or will not do as grizzly advertised it would. I hesitate to even turn it on for fear something else will break on it. it claims to be a 16" but I can't load a blank over 10 1/2"
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square blank or rounded blank? 16" means the swing over the lathe bed , so a 16" diameter rounded blank might "just" clear , assuming you chucked it up dead center.. But the swing over the banjo is usually quite a bit smaller... and if your blank is not perfectly rounded and centered, then of course the size of blank you can mount is going to be smaller.. and a chunk of "sorta square but chainsawed off the corners" log, with getting it close to center, you may likely only end up with a 12 to 13 inch diameter bowl once you get it rounded and balanced.
However, given your experiences with this particular Grizzly so far, I'd not even worry about the swing.. But bear in mind with most any lathe you are not going to mount a full 16" blank on a lathe with a 16" swing.... unless you have it perfectly rounded and centered already.
Lastly if you are looking at Harvey lathe, I'm tempted to say you'd likely be quite a bit happier on one (better than on a Rikon, IMHO) but I have no personal experience myself.. I've been making do with a 12 x 36 Harbor Freight lathe.. and honestly, I hate it... I wanted to get a Harvey (back when I could have gotten a T40 on sale at $2300) , but still could never afford it... if you can swing the $10K or so for a lathe, I'd definitely go with the Robust, however..
Thanks for this eye-opening PSA. Hopefully your real estate deal will allow you to get the lathe of your dreams.
I always prepare my blanks with a chain saw then on a 14''x10'' band saw so they are very close to true round before I ever mount them. the new Harvey T60 is what I'm considering or the Rikon 70 3040 is the one I would buy ...
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Yikes! First and foremost, other than the lost turnings sounds like you managed to escape serious injury.
Looking at your pictures, the castings do look like they are poor quality in general. One thing you might try is to contact the CPSC - The Consumer Product Safety Comission. These are the guys that can require recalls of consumer items that are dangerous. Not sure if it is just my monitor, but it looks like someone made a poor choice on their website - white text on light grey. I have decent (corrected) vision, and I have trouble seeing it.
If you have documented proof of purchase and have a warranty, then they should be honoring the warranty. If not, that could be legal grounds - I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. In fact, I am not on TV at all - I have a face for radio.
CPSC Website Look up/report unsafe products
Looking at your pictures, the castings do look like they are poor quality in general. One thing you might try is to contact the CPSC - The Consumer Product Safety Comission. These are the guys that can require recalls of consumer items that are dangerous. Not sure if it is just my monitor, but it looks like someone made a poor choice on their website - white text on light grey. I have decent (corrected) vision, and I have trouble seeing it.
If you have documented proof of purchase and have a warranty, then they should be honoring the warranty. If not, that could be legal grounds - I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. In fact, I am not on TV at all - I have a face for radio.
CPSC Website Look up/report unsafe products
The mentioned manufacturing company produces few well made products. I only use powermatic machines in my shop and have never been disappointed. Some have running for 15 years without incident or remorse on my part. Cost more but worth it in time saved in waiting for help or repair.
I do have proof of purchase and they are voiding the warranty citing "excessive force and strain put on the machine" I'm definitely not through with them. The people making the determination of excessive force have never used a lathe. I learned a long time ago to "TRY" and stay out of the path of spinning wheels that might eject shrapnel. And thanks for the CPSC tipYikes! First and foremost, other than the lost turnings sounds like you managed to escape serious injury.
Looking at your pictures, the castings do look like they are poor quality in general. One thing you might try is to contact the CPSC - The Consumer Product Safety Comission. These are the guys that can require recalls of consumer items that are dangerous. Not sure if it is just my monitor, but it looks like someone made a poor choice on their website - white text on light grey. I have decent (corrected) vision, and I have trouble seeing it.
If you have documented proof of purchase and have a warranty, then they should be honoring the warranty. If not, that could be legal grounds - I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. In fact, I am not on TV at all - I have a face for radio.
CPSC Website Look up/report unsafe products
Sounds like it's time to up the ante with them: consumer protection agencies, social media and forums like this, maybe make a civil case if you think it's worth it. You don't seem like the kind of guy that's just going to get screwed without consequences.
I think any 'responsible' business would be all over that failure like flies on manure. I have seen some terrible stuff from Grizzly. That is why I don't have any of their tools.
robo hippy
robo hippy
Thanks for the reality check. I know better, but was considering one of their bandsaws.
Buy once, cry once.
Buy once, cry once.
I have 6 grizzly tools: table saw, lathe, bandsaw, jointer, planer, and disc/oscillating sander. Every one has performed perfectly. Except for the lathe, all are over 12 years old. No repairs or issues of any kind. Grizzly sells a really wide range of products, in just about every category. Based on pretty high rates of issues with certain models, it is fair to say those are not good ones. I think this lathe falls into that category. But it is unfair to categorically say thatall Grizzly products are not good. They make and sell many more models than all other manufacturers, by a long shot. Lathes for example, Grizzly offers 12 models with the Grizzly nameplate (they likely make the Shopfox models too). When you do this, and source from multiple factories, quality control will suffer. But you can still find a well-made model, if you do your homework. Generally, their "made in Taiwan" machines are usually better quality.
I don't understand anyone buying the G0462. That big of a lathe for about $1000? It just doesn't compute. You have to wonder if you are getting exactly what you pay for with that machine.
I don't understand anyone buying the G0462. That big of a lathe for about $1000? It just doesn't compute. You have to wonder if you are getting exactly what you pay for with that machine.
Tom,
I have the G0513X2 bandsaw. Works great for me. Re-saws great. Cuts thin veneers. Easily roughs out turning blanks. I did buy urethane tires for it shortly after I bought it. The OEM tires quickly showed signs of wear. Maybe the 1" blade I was running at the time did not help. Good bandsaw overall. I'm looking to add a second bandsaw in a couple of years. I'm leaning toward the Harvey HW615P mostly for the re-saw and left tilt capability.
I own a g0462. I bought it because that was all I could afford. I have no real problems with it over the last 3 yrs. The tail stock sucks but I solved its inadequacy by adding a mt2 extension. My only complaint is that the lowest speed is between 500-600. The rotating head is what sold it for me. I would really like a Nova or Leguna but at 76 years young I am not sure I would get my moneys worth out of a new one. I keep watching the ads and hoping.
Pat
My 70's model Sears tablesaw had to be replaced several years ago. The Saw Stop was just coming to market with its voluntary braking cartridge. After much soul searching and a personal visit to the Grizzly showroom I bought a Grizzly tablesaw. The grizz was light years ahead of the old sears. I went back and bought a Grizzle dust collector. Grizzly no longer offers my model of tablesaw or dust collector. Present time the saw and collector are quite adequate but in comparison neither has the refinement and fit or other brands. While the bandsaw, jointer, and lathe came with higher price tags than Grizzly offered the increase in price was well worth it to me. Just my opinion.
Some Grizzly products are grisly, some good. I have an oscillating spindle sander which works well and have used a cheap benchtop version which also was functional, but that is the extent of my personal experience. They do seem to have earned a reputation for good customer service overall so your tale surprises me. I believe that you didn't abuse the machine, on the other hand breaking 4 castings on one lathe signals either abuse or terrible quality and I can imagine a CS rep adopting the first position. Were I in your shoes I would write directly to Shiraz Balolia, the company president, to see if he would help sort it out.
This lathe does not perform to match the specs they put out for it and does not even meet specs. The older machines perform much better than any of their newly made. That's reports from users. There are a lot of complaints on newer Grizzly products.
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Clearly this lathe has problems. And 14 days isn't much time for a hobbyists to crate and ship. Where are you now in the return process?
After a knock down drag out fight and sending emails to upper management they are talking more in manageable terms.
Clearly the company isn't on top of their manufacturing which I'm sure is off shore. A friend went to China four times a year (before covid) for his company to inspect manufacturing and tour many facilities. He hasn't gone back since covid and the company is finding other sources of manufacture. Clearly a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.
That's exactly the case with Grizzly even the tech support that is to be advising me on this lathe and working solutions to equipment failure has never used a lathe, so how does that work? I can tell you it doesn't!
I doubt one will find any lathe in the G0462 price range that performs any better. Its a very old Grizzly design patterned after other reeves drive lathes. Its a relatively lightweight machine with a dated design for when turning was more spindle oriented. More than enough for furniture and stair banisters, but too light to handle the biggest chunk of wood that will fit on it, just like others like it.
Grizzly lathes designed in the last~10 years are more modern designs with significant thicker castings and up to date electronic variable speed drive systems.
Grizzly lathes designed in the last~10 years are more modern designs with significant thicker castings and up to date electronic variable speed drive systems.
Doug - there seems to be a quality control issue that is common to Grizzly, and some other companies ( just so you don't think I am picking on ONE brand...). That issue is: inconsistency. When researching...I find that some companies contract out the manufacture of different parts to many smaller manufacturers. The issue in this - is that the "standards" and "tolerances" becomes little blurred from time to time . To compound that - Some lathe making companies allow the contracts for the sub-assemblies or parts - to run out mid-way thru the total number of models produced. An example: You and I buy the same brand and model lathe from company "G"...or any other letter that comes to mind...... They are consecutive serial numbers. BUT... our tail stocks - tho they appear to be identical - are made by 2 different sub-contracted manufacturers. Tryas they might....the parts will not be EXACTLY the same. Differences in machining tolerances, sources of the cast iron, etc... And the net result in this is that all too often...the customer suffers the "mis-match blues". Your tailstock works an performs fine - but mine...has issues. Maybe it will not align exactly with he spindle. Maybe the #2 Morse taper is slightly over-bore. Maybe the cast iron is coarse and brittle...you see my point I will bet.
So - I figured out - years before I got into woodturning...that there were brands I would never buy, because their business model did not favor consistent product quality outcomes. That would frustrate me as a customer more so - when entering a forum for the brand - knowing my product had an issue that was clearly caused by poor/inconsistent QC - ( and in some cases amplified by lousy/inconsistent customer support...) - yet there were many other people that would come in and say things like "never had a problem"..."mine is perfect" or even "are you sure you know what you are doing" - which would give me cranial stretch marks from my head wanting to explode.....
All of this is to say that it can be worth the extra time to research the COMPANY and their business model and how that can impact you....not just read the reviews of the company's product that interests you......
. They are consecutive serial numbers. BUT... our tail stocks - tho they appear to be identical - are made by 2 different sub-contracted manufacturers. Tryas they might....the parts will not be EXACTLY the same. Differences in machining tolerances, sources of the cast iron, etc... And the net result in this is that all too often...the customer suffers the "mis-match blues". Your tailstock works an performs fine - but mine...has issues. Maybe it will not align exactly with he spindle. Maybe the #2 Morse taper is slightly over-bore. Maybe the cast iron is coarse and brittle...you see my point I will bet.So - I figured out - years before I got into woodturning...that there were brands I would never buy, because their business model did not favor consistent product quality outcomes. That would frustrate me as a customer more so - when entering a forum for the brand - knowing my product had an issue that was clearly caused by poor/inconsistent QC - ( and in some cases amplified by lousy/inconsistent customer support...) - yet there were many other people that would come in and say things like "never had a problem"..."mine is perfect" or even "are you sure you know what you are doing" - which would give me cranial stretch marks from my head wanting to explode
.....All of this is to say that it can be worth the extra time to research the COMPANY and their business model and how that can impact you....not just read the reviews of the company's product that interests you......
I suffered through the Grizzly G0462 for too many years. Poor castings, light weight, and yes, reeves drive that wouldn’t let me turn below about 600. Putting an out of balance piece of timber on the lathe was a hysterical dance to start it up, turn a couple of revolutions until the lathe got up to speed and started dancing, shut off, and repeat. Horrible! Two years ago I bit the bullet, stretched my budget and treated myself to the Powermatic 3520C. I haven’t looked back at that decision with anything but satisfaction. I’m 68 - well I will be next month. While I hope I’ll get many years of use from it, if not, it’s good to know that I (or my heirs) can likely sell it for just about what I paid for it.