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Epoxy paste for filling up cracks in bowl blanks.

Joined
Nov 3, 2017
Messages
13
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339
Location
Mundelein, Ilinois
Hello friends...
I am about to start turning a few rouged-out bowls that have some major defects.
In the past, I have used epoxy to fill up small cracks and voids.
During a club meeting, somebody mentioned epoxy paste as a way of filling up cracks like this.
The person who used it said it was much easier than liquid epoxy since there was no run-out.
My question is,
Has any of you used something like that, and how was your experience?
I am also concerned about longevity.
Thanks for your help.
 

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I have some experience with epoxy (liquid) and using various thickeners. In gap filing gluing applications it is good practice to coat the ends to be glued with liquid epoxy and then fill the space with thickened epoxy. There are all kinds of thickeners including cotton fibers, fiberglass fibers, sawdust (less strong than the others), etc. I don’t have experience with paste, but I’d be a bit concerned that for applications like a turning blank where high speed and centrifugal force is trying to separate the pieces, paste without liquid having penetrated the grain may not be sufficiently strong. Others with experience using this may report a more educated response.
 
Roberto, I've used it several times, JB Quikwood, and had very good success. it's fast and bonds well. I wouldn't use it where a natural wood look is needed but for the type of work in your gallery where it will receive an opaque finish it seems to carve and sand just like the wood.
 
I’m in the firewood camp. There is just too many visible cracks and possible cracks you can’t see. Turning wood like that could fly apart. Even if you fill it what do you have when done? It doesn’t look like any special wood worth saving.
 
I’ve only used epoxy paste on flatwork, but it’s held up pretty well. Like someone said above, I would be concerned with paste alone given the centrifugal forces. It may be worth considering an inlay or two prior to the epoxy to help stabilize the crack.
 
I have some experience with epoxy (liquid) and using various thickeners. In gap filing gluing applications it is good practice to coat the ends to be glued with liquid epoxy and then fill the space with thickened epoxy. There are all kinds of thickeners including cotton fibers, fiberglass fibers, sawdust (less strong than the others), etc. I don’t have experience with paste, but I’d be a bit concerned that for applications like a turning blank where high speed and centrifugal force is trying to separate the pieces, paste without liquid having penetrated the grain may not be sufficiently strong. Others with experience using this may report a more educated response.
Lou,
I never thought about that but it makes sense. I'll keep it in mind.
I would think about attempting pewa, only because I like oak and find pewa interesting but would prefer somebody else do it so I can view it. Is that a cop out?
Charlie,
I think I will add some bow ties on the larger cracks.
 
Hello friends...
I am about to start turning a few rouged-out bowls that have some major defects.
In the past, I have used epoxy to fill up small cracks and voids.
During a club meeting, somebody mentioned epoxy paste as a way of filling up cracks like this.
The person who used it said it was much easier than liquid epoxy since there was no run-out.
My question is,
Has any of you used something like that, and how was your experience?
I am also concerned about longevity.
Thanks for your help.
Roberto, if your goal is to have it last, I prefer to start with wood that is not cracked. The wood will move, even after turning is finished, and the filing will not move, not a good combination. Besides the cracks in the photos would be unsafe. I am likely in a minority about this but this stuff grows on trees and I prefer to turn safe and it is not fun for me to mess with filling cracks. Its all about the fun
 
"Life is too short to turn crappy wood."
-- John Jordan
 
I have used epoxy putty for paint-grade trim carpentry, but I'm not familiar with epoxy paste. I would never consider the epoxy putty to be anything but a filler that shouldn't be used where structural bonding is needed. Maybe the paste is different in that respect, but I would guess not. I agree with the others who say don't do it.
 
am about to start turning a few rouged-out bowls that have some major defects.
In the past, I have used epoxy to fill up small cracks and voids.

Tough decision point. My first rule for working with defects. Do I envision showing off the finished piece in my living room?

Good news is as you get more experience the % of bowls lost in drying goes way down.
Even walls and flowing curves increase drying success. Talk with club members about their drying process.

What to do with a cracked bowl. Again with more experience you will burn more.

As you get more experience you will be able to assess risks and be able turn wood with cracks and voids with lower risk.
If you are still getting occasional catches - avoid turning defects.
 
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What to do with a cracked bowl. Again with more experience you will burn more.
Yesterday was unseasonably cool here, so I had the first fire of the season in our fireplace. A month or so ago I had harvested some hickory bowl blanks from a neighborhood tree that had been standing dead for a year or two. In hindsight, the victim perhaps of a lightning strike or maybe a fungal infection. It had a sour smell, but in rough turning the blanks, I didn’t notice signs of ring shake. My drying box successfully dried a few, but about half wound up fueling the first fire of the season. I’ll look very critically at the remaining blanks before taking any chances with them. A5FBFC4E-3A39-453E-AABB-026A9F7E7898.jpeg
 
Roberto, all of us have likely turned a few questionable things in the past that in hindsight were not wise but there is no way I would spin up that piece. Even IF you poured in some epoxy there's no way to know how much actually penetrated and bonded. It's just wood. God made plenty of wood but only one of you.
 
When rough turning a bowl I think it is unwise to have the pith included in the side of a bowl just because it will do just what that one did and I for one don't like the look of filled in drying cracks. I have had success filling natural voids using epoxy putty ( I have no idea what epoxy paste is unless it is another name for putty) then undercutting the putty and refilling with mineral such as powdered turquoise and thin CA.
20042Bowl.JPG
If you start with green wood it is possible to turn thin walled bowls with the pith included and not have any cracks but the pith will dimple as they dry such as the following photo.
9135Bowla.JPG
 
Another vote for the firewood. It's just not worth the risk of an exploding piece. - John

PS - Keep in mind that what you are talking about is filling the voids. This will likely not improve the integrity of the piece and risk of explosion remains. - J
 
Roberto -- You've heard from the 'life's too short to turn crappy wood camp'. But, while generally, that may be true, there can be times when even a long-time camp member might wish to turn such a blank. For example, the wood might have significant sentimental value. Or, you just think the resulting bowl will look way cool with its radiating rays of contrasting colors. Whatever the reason, you've said that you'd like to turn these cracked blanks. If I had a similar blank and were determined to salvage it, I would take one of two approaches -- depending mostly on the size of the blank.

Method 1: I would first stabilize the blank using cactus juice. My reason for doing this would be to limit the amount of wood movement in the future. Assuming good penetration, a stabilized blank acts more like a resin blank than a wood blank when it comes to wood movement. After the blank has been stabilized, I would cast the blank in epoxy (or, more likely, Alumilite Clear Slow, which is a urethane resin, not an epoxy). To cast the blank, I would turn a waste block to fill up most of the interior of the bowl. The purpose of the waste block is not just to take up space, to reduce the use of expensive resin. The purpose is also to reduce the depth of the pour, helping the resin to cure without getting too hot. Done properly, this would produce a sound blank that would be safe to turn.

This is my preferred method. However, it can't be used if the blank won't fit in the vacuum chamber or the oven used for stabilizing. And, of course, it can't be used if the blank won't fit in the pressure pot. (A pressure pot isn't required for casting if a slow curing epoxy resin is used. Some epoxy casting resins might have an open time measured in hours, which allows plenty of time for air bubbles to rise to the surface. As I said, I generally use Alumilite Clear Slow, which has an open time of about 12 minutes. In such a case, a pressure pot is used to compress any air bubbles in the resin to a size that cannot be seen by the human eye.)

Method 2: If the blank won't fit in my toaster oven (which is smaller than my vacuum chamber and my pressure pot), I would use a high-quality packing tape to seal the outside of any cracks and then fill the cracks with slow curing casting epoxy. I would make sure the resin is designed for 'deep pours'. Properly done, this should result in a sound blank that can be safely turned. However, the wood and epoxy will move at different rates in response to changes in humidity and temperature. Over time, I would expect wood and epoxy will separate. That is, I expect that a small hair-line crack will develop along the edges of where the epoxy and wood meet. I also expect it would take years for that to happen.

HTH

David
 
curious...David...what's the estimated cost of doing the method you describe for 8 - 10" cracked bowl
 
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