Eccentric chuck information wanted........

[odie]

I'd like to try some off center turning, but have never done that before. Any input you might want to offer on the subject would be appreciated very much.

Sources for purchase would also be appreciated. I see the one listed for CSUSA and the Sorby chuck listed at Packard Woodworks. Any recommendations????

I'm a complete newbie at off center work, and would like any information you can offer on these chucks......and techniques!

Thanks

otis of cologne

 

[bob elliott]

Latest Escoulen Chuck

You may have noticed that Craft Supplies has the older Escoulen chuck on sale. The reason, you might ask? There's a new Escoulen chuck on the horizon. It appears all the bases have been covered with this chuck. See it here in action: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jni6Qnth844

 

[AnnHerbst]

old thread: Eccentric chuck review ??

I recommend you try a search (see search in the heading line at top of page) use one word: eccentric

I got a bunch of things including these threads from this year. (I remembered lots of info awhile back, so did the search.) Here are the ones I thought had good info.

In mid November, n7bsn started a thread:
Eccentric chuck review ??
It can be found at:
http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=4148

In mid September, jerhall started a thread:
Craft Supply Eccentric Chuck?
found at:
http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=3989&highlight=eccentric

Enjoy, Ann

 

[Gordon Seto]

The one shown on YouTube was with the newest Escoulen #3 Eccentric chuck.

IMO, this one compliments the other two; all three has different capabilities.

Gordon

 

[john lucas]

Start offcenter turning by doing it between centers. This doesn't cost a thing and is a lot of fun. You can turn a lot of spindles and then add bases and tops for candle sticks or goblets. It's a good way to get a feel for the differences between regular turning and offset turning.
If you have a regular chuck you can do several things to try offset turning. Turn part of the piece and then remount it with a penny under one side when you put it back in the jaws. This throws it off center and lets you play.
Try removing 2 jaws opposite each other. Turn part of you piece and then move it in the jaws. This is easily done if you start with a rectangular piece of wood. I've also glued a rectangly to the bottom of a piece so I could use this technique.
Mount the piece between centers and turn a dovetail tenon for your chuck. Then mount the piece offcenter between the centers and turn another dovetail tenon for you chuck. These two might overlap but that's ok. When I first did this I left the end with the tenon in tail center and only move the drive center. This leaves an odd shaped tenon but it works fine for 2 offsets when doing eccentric work.
When you start to understand what you want to turn using eccentric turning it will narrow down your chuck choices and make it easier to decide.

 

[Jerry Hall]

Fixing for Offcenter turning

Odie, The chucks are all quite different, and expensive. None does it all. You can do a lot without any special chucks, in fact most everything. I would recommend exploring these alternatives first. As Barbara emphasizes in her recent articles get familiar with the outcomes. And I add learn needed tool control. Here are some references that I think will be of interest:

Between Centers:
- Practice some of the shapes in Barbara Dill's article and get a feel for what results you get with different axes
- Nice article HERE
- A nice project is to use the techniques above to turn a "Magic" Wand. HERE is a slide show of some I have done. I would keep them under 14" unless you use a long nose chuck to stabilize a longer wand. Start simple and maybe 3/8" minimum diameter. Slice with the axis, no pressure across the axis.

Using conventional Chucks
- There are lots of easy ways to "offset" the new axis parallel to the lathe axis:
HERE is Ken Grunke's fixture
- And Axminister has an insert that does something similar described HERE
- Or make your own fixture that allows the axis to be "angled" from the lathe axis or "offset." See my slide show HERE (excuse crummy pictures)
- And HERE is how I use the fixture to make multi axis bottle stoppers. I am trying to turn this slide show into a proposed Journal article. Would appreciate feedback.
- You can make a square or rectangular tenon on the end of a endgrain blank that fits within two sturdy long nose jaws and create quite a range of offsets and angles. That is how I did some of my multi-axis goblets. Vicmarc jaws are by far the best for this, and the ones for the 5-1/2" chuck best of all.
- You can use a faceplate on an end grain log, relocating it, and/or cutting a new angle on the end for a new axis once you have finished the preceding axis. That is how I did my multi-axis goblet for the Winter 2007 contest. It goes pretty fast. Figuring out what the result will be is the trick. That is why I recommend getting your feet wet between centers.
- You can make a fixture like the one in the photo attached for a conventional chuck. This was made based on a suggestion of mine by John Williams. It is best for doing only offset axes, but a little angling will work.
- HERE is another great idea to make your own two jaw chuck by David Reed Smith
Use the tailstock as much as you can. But for modest size blanks, and as you near the headstock you can generally do without with good tool control.

Commercial Chucks:
- There are 3 flavors of Escoulen chucks HERE is a vido of his newest.
- Robert Sorby has a new chuck see HERE for description and a really nice video link. I bought this chuck but haven't used it yet. My fixtures are familiar to me and work great!

 

[John Nicholas]

Jerry,

Thanks for the fantastic set of links and pictures with all the ideas.

John

 

[odie]

I recommend you try a search (see search in the heading line at top of page) use one word: eccentric

Yes, of course......I should have thought to do that first. Thanks, Ann, for the information.

Still mulling over all this for now.

Thank you to all who responded.....and to you jerhall!

otis of cologne

 

[Wilford Bickel]

Craft Supplies sells one by Axminster for about $119 that attaches to your regular chuck with 2 inch dovetail jaws. I picked one up a while back and have been having fun figuring out what it will do - the instructions that come with it are horrible!!!! The unit is versatile with the center section that turns in addition to the offset of the eccentric adjustments. The learning curve is going to be long on this one due to the lack of understandable instructions but the unit is well made for the money.

Wilford

 

[Jerry Hall]

How to get started...

You can think yourself to death on this. There are three orders of magnitude more possibilities with multi axis stuff than straight spindle turning:
1. You can "offset" the new axis parallel to the lathe axis
2. You can "angle" the new axis with respect to the lathe axis
3. You can rotate the center points around so that the new axes are in different planes (Wilford, that is what that extra feature in the Axminister does, I think)

And, just in case that is not enough, you can do all of the above in any combination, from either end, and multiple times. Each of the commercial chucks does some of these. Sorby does them all (but requires a tail stock for any angled axis.)

Our little BB brains can't really think thru these possibilities. That is what was neat about Barbara's article; it provided a way of working back from "outcomes" to a desired setup. Unfortunately most outcomes are butt ugly and non-functional. Think monkeys at a typewriter trying to write the great American novel.

So that is why I say stop thinking about it and just take on a project, like the wands, but even better is the bottle stopper project in my slide show above. Just push thru the steps in the slides and make one. Along the way you will say "aha!" Then you will have the insight to start creating your own designs. And as John says have a basis to decide what chuck, if any, you may want.

I believe there are a lot of great designs waiting to be discovered, and we don't need to "monkey" with it. If you think too much about this you will give up. But if you give it a try and gain experience it's fun and not mind numbing at all. Just like everything else in turning start out simple and practice.

Below is a photo of another project: Eccentric handled salad utensils. I could spend the rest of my turning life just on variations of this. My next ones are going to be right and left handed ones.

 

[john lucas]

Jerry I have to turn some wine stopper today. I may give it a try. I will have to make an adaptor. My wine stopper blanks are already cut short. I don't see why I can't glue my pin chuck into a blank that will then fit my extended jaws. Thanks for all the great info.

 

[Gordon Seto]

Sorby does them all (but requires a tail stock for any angled axis.)

Jerry, Very nice work and informative.

The only thing I would like to add is:
That requirement of using the tail stock would limit a lot of design possibilities.
You can't hollow any off angled axis with it, such as box, goblet, HF.
You can't turn anything thin and delicate with it, like an ornament finial.

I think the major advantage of using any chuck is allowing us the possibility of holding our work just at the head stock end. Otherwise turning multi-axis between centers would almost accomplish the same goal without the expense.

Jean Francois Escoulen said it took him 5 years to get familiar with and explored the potentials of his original chuck. That chuck only change the axis angle.

I think the tool that is more important in eccentric turning than chuck is the good detail gouges. Because we can't bring the tool rest close to the work, a long overhang always create chattering problem. You need a gouge that has very shallow flute with lots of steel left behind.

Gordon

 

[Jerry Hall]

Gordon,

Thanks for your comments. You are dead-on with your description of the need for a beefy spindle gouge. I most commonly use a 3/8" ID 1/2" OD shallow fluted Penn State model (about $14!) It happens to be very thick under the flute, and long and with a long handle. I grind it between 40 and 45 deg with a non pointy gentle fingernail grind. Oneway jig leg set at 23 deg to keep included angle the same all the way around the fingernail. I keep it VERY sharp and hone frequently. If the cutting of the "air" is not going smoothly I sharpen, tighten my fixture, speed up the lathe, evaluate my tool presentation (aim my cut to the bevel) take small rolling, slicing cuts. For larger work I will use a smaller bowl gouge.

I agree on the tail stock. To be clear, all of the shop made fixtures I mention above CAN be used without the tailstock. I just say use the tail stock when you can. And evaluate the size of your blank. I hollowed the goblet 10" out on a 6" Dia green blank with the hollow form taken out of one side. My Mustard Monster was jiggling! It helped to bore out a bit of the hollow form first. See photo below for some examples. The ugly one on the right was a joke.

As you say one of the Escoulen chucks allows angled axis without the tail stock, but not offsets. The Sorby allows offsets without the tail stock, and angled axis with the tail stock. Many of the fixings in my post above allow both without the tailstock. But be careful! Practice with a nice green wood helps too.

 

[Garmar]

I have owned the Escoulen eccentric chuck and the Ken Grunke adapter. I sold the Escoulen and continue to use the Grunke adapter. Seems easier to use, at least for me.

 

[Gordon Seto]

Jerry,

I grind mine at 30º~35º angle. I took a class from Mark Sfirri at Arrowmont. I tried his 30º tool and the steeper angle allowed better access to finer details, especially when the transition is a "V" instead of coves. I tried to convert mine and found that not all steel can hold that edge. My current favorite are the shallow flute detail gouges from Thompson tools.

Gordon

 

[Jerry Hall]

Gordon,

I agree on the V's. I use a 30 deg grind for finishing up, but have lately tended to a skew for really deep canyons. But for most of the projects the non pointy 45 deg grind is less painstaking for me to avoid catches and is my go-to tool for bulk removal and and long smooth cove and arc finish cuts. Sanding on each axis, and the air, is a bother and I try to get a really nice finish in the gentler coves and arcs. The steeper grind seems to help me with getting that "hero" cut.

I have been thinking of treating myself to some Hunter gouges. The long lasting edge would be nice. But the more frequent honings of Chinese steel does give me more breaks to take a breath and to rake out the shavings from my coffee cup and have a sip.