Delta 46-250 issue.

[Nick Valenza]

Hey everyone, I bought a midi lathe off a wood Turner's club's newsletter and this issue is what I am presented with. anyone have any opinions? Do I need a new spindle shaft? Was this just a poor milling job on Delta's behalf, or was it bent from the previous owner? I can't imagine it bending. When I put a one way truck on it it is around 20/1000ths out of true. I put the same one way Chuck on the Delta 46 - 460 and it runs under 1/1000ths true.

View: https://youtu.be/O-otW4joeGY


Thanks!

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I bought one new and used it for a few years, nice lathe and no problems ever, I upgrade for the larger Delta with a 1HP motor and variable speed.

The one thing I see that you are not using is a spacer that goes between the chuck and the spindle face, it did come with one.

As the threaded spindle part is too long and the chuck is unable to fit right up against the face of the spindle, you should measure the spindle face or and the inside of the MT opening, those should run true.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

Have you used your gauge against a chuck on the spindle? I wouldn’t necessarily expect the ring you are testing to be perfect as the set screw in it could slightly deform it. Similarly, I think there are lots of ways the mandrel could be made less than perfectly concentric - burls or rust inside, even dust. Or the shaft could have taken a serious hit…

 

[Brian Gustin]

I have that same exact problem with my harbor freight lathe, though not quite as much runout , but plenty enough to give me problems - I am unable to do fine finials or similar extremely fine detail , but with extra-sharp tools and a very light touch, I am able to compensate for the most part and get a finished item that runs true, Although some particular wood grains (typically knotty, twisted grain areas) will still give me a not-quite-true finish so often I am left with tool marks that take tons of sanding to get rid of... But I have been able to live with it (though I hate not being able to do fine detail work)

One thing I did at least with a chuck (not so effective with the morse taper parts) was to cut a shim of sorts out of a plastic soda bottle , and an extra 1/2 shim on the side opposite the runout low spot which got my chuck runout down to a bit under .001" I have to remove and re-adjust though if I happen to get a bad catch (it flexes things and crushes the plastic- extrudes it I should say...)

 

[Nick Valenza]

I bought one new and used it for a few years, nice lathe and no problems ever, I upgrade for the larger Delta with a 1HP motor and variable speed.

The one thing I see that you are not using is a spacer that goes between the chuck and the spindle face, it did come with one.

As the threaded spindle part is too long and the chuck is unable to fit right up against the face of the spindle, you should measure the spindle face or and the inside of the MT opening, those should run true.

Hey Thanks for your response Leo! I am not sure where you are getting the idea that the chuck does fit on the spindle. Sorry if I said that. The surfaces of the oneway talon and the face of the spindle are a very tight fit. With or without the nylon spacer. Although my opinion here is not directly relevant to this situation, i generally do not like using the nylon spacer. I usually like the chuck directly up against the face of the spindle. please let me know what you think!

 

[Nick Valenza]

Have you used your gauge against a chuck on the spindle? I wouldn’t necessarily expect the ring you are testing to be perfect as the set screw in it could slightly deform it. Similarly, I think there are lots of ways the mandrel could be made less than perfectly concentric - burls or rust inside, even dust. Or the shaft could have taken a serious hit…

Hey Lou! When the chuck is spinning on this spindle it is about 15-20 thousandths out of true...without the nylon spacer... just a great and tight surface to surface contact between the spindle surface and the one way talons chuck's insert. Another point, When I tested the truness of inside the spindle after the headstock, it was dead true.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Hey Thanks for your response Leo! I am not sure where you are getting the idea that the chuck does fit on the spindle. Sorry if I said that. The surfaces of the oneway talon and the face of the spindle are a very tight fit. With or without the nylon spacer. Although my opinion here is not directly relevant to this situation, i generally do not like using the nylon spacer. I usually like the chuck directly up against the face of the spindle. please let me know what you think!

I guess I was not clear in my answer, so the mis-understanding, I also never use a nylon/plastic spacer, what I was referring to is a precision metal spacer that came with the Delta Lathe, see below in the picture, some faceplates and chucks are not able to fit all the way onto the spindle, that is why Delta included this metal spacer with their lathe.

It is imperative that the two surfaces fit right up against each other, anything small between the two will cause a runout.

 

[Tom Gall]

Nick, unless you have any play in the bearings those few 1000's (where you measured) shouldn't matter. You did say the Morse taper was running true so most likely your spindle threads are running true. Whether turning a spindle or a bowl mounted on a chuck/faceplate - once the wood is round you are good-to-go.
Think multi-axis spindle turning .... once you cut deep enough to get past the eccentricity your wood is running true!

 

[Nick Valenza]

I guess I was not clear in my answer, so the mis-understanding, I also never use a nylon/plastic spacer, what I was referring to is a precision metal spacer that came with the Delta Lathe, see below in the picture, some faceplates and chucks are not able to fit all the way onto the spindle, that is why Delta included this metal spacer with their lathe.

It is imperative that the two surfaces fit right up against each other, anything small between the two will cause a runout.
View attachment 45562View attachment 45563

Gotcha. It came with that spacer, but I can only imagine Delta tried to save money by making a smaller threaded stock faceplate, then realized their mistake, and added the spacer? The chuck fit beautifully to spindle surface. I just verified the spindle thread length. It is a hair under 1" long, just like the 46-460 spindle thread length. Let me know what you think!
Thanks
Nick

 

[Nick Valenza]

Nick, unless you have any play in the bearings those few 1000's (where you measured) shouldn't matter. You did say the Morse taper was running true so most likely your spindle threads are running true. Whether turning a spindle or a bowl mounted on a chuck/faceplate - once the wood is round you are good-to-go.
Think multi-axis spindle turning .... once you cut deep enough to get past the eccentricity your wood is running true!

Thanks Tom! I definitely understand that once the wood is turned true, it's true... until you take it off and have to re-chuck it and forgot to mark the position on the material! Haha. I was just hoping to remove that potential for error. It bothers me that is is off that much. But then again maybe if we just milled poorly, and maybe alot of lower end lathes are poorly milled?

 

[Richard Coers]

You are measuring on non-critical surfaces on the outside measurement. The outside diameter on those surfaces could have 1/8" of runout and it would not affect the chuck or the turning. Pen mandrels are not precision tooling. Measure on the internal taper and with a ground pin in the chuck you plan on using.

 

[Tom Gall]

Thanks Tom! I definitely understand that once the wood is turned true, it's true... until you take it off and have to re-chuck it and forgot to mark the position on the material! Haha. I was just hoping to remove that potential for error. It bothers me that is is off that much. But then again maybe if we just milled poorly, and maybe alot of lower end lathes are poorly milled?

JUST DON'T FORGET!!! Most chucks have a little slop ... rotate your mark to each of the other 3 jaws and you will probably see some wobble in at least one of those positions.
Make sure the flat on your spindle is clean and has no dings. Check that your chuck (insert?) rim is also clean where it mates with the spindle. If your spindle isn't hardened you can dress the flat mating surface very lightly with a parting tool if necessary.
You probably already know that ..... but, just in case.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The metal spacer will help prevent the threaded insert of the chuck from locking onto the spindle thread. The morse taper and the spindle thread would be the critical component that you should be measuring for alignment. The machined surface that the spacer sits against on the spindle is a surface you could measure for runout to see if the spindle is bent.

 

[Richard Coers]

The metal spacer will help prevent the threaded insert of the chuck from locking onto the spindle thread. The morse taper and the spindle thread would be the critical component that you should be measuring for alignment. The machined surface that the spacer sits against on the spindle is a surface you could measure for runout to see if the spindle is bent.

I've been turning for 37 years, I've never locked a chuck on the lathe. Of course when I started turning, there were no 4 jaw chucks made for wood. If you don't snap the chuck to bottom it out on the lathe, you don't have trouble.

 

[Odie]

I've been turning for 37 years, I've never locked a chuck on the lathe. Of course when I started turning, there were no 4 jaw chucks made for wood. If you don't snap the chuck to bottom it out on the lathe, you don't have trouble.

I remember those days when all we had were faceplates, jam chucks, and metal working chucks. Woodturning chucks sure have come a long way since then!

Because I have had a chuck or faceplate come unscrewed from the spindle on a braked shutdown, I always lock them into place with a quick flick while seating.

I've never had trouble unlocking a faceplate/chuck from the spindle, because my Woodfast lathe has a hexnut at the spindle where it meets the headstock. By using the supplied spindle wrench, it's not a difficult thing. (It also comes in handy when using it to lock the spindle for spot sanding!)

-----odie-----

 

[Nick Valenza]

You are measuring on non-critical surfaces on the outside measurement. The outside diameter on those surfaces could have 1/8" of runout and it would not affect the chuck or the turning. Pen mandrels are not precision tooling. Measure on the internal taper and with a ground pin in the chuck you plan on using.

Richard, I never posted it, but the internal taper surface ran extremely true. "Measure on the internal taper and with a ground pin in the chuck you plan on using." I am not sure i know what you mean here. Are you saying to simply stick a very true piece of steel into the 4 jaws, and see how true is will run farther from the headstock? If so (also not-posted on youtube) the chuck when running on the smaller 46-250 was about 20/1000ths out of true, however when running on the large 46-460 it ran true to less than 1/1000th. I measured perpendicularly to the center line on a surface of the oneway talon that would give me no surface interruptions. Let me know what you think@ Thanks! Nick

 

[Tom Gall]

I remember those days when all we had were faceplates, jam chucks, and metal working chucks. Woodturning chucks sure have come a long way since then!

Because I have had a chuck or faceplate come unscrewed from the spindle on a braked shutdown, I always lock them into place with a quick flick while seating.

I've never had trouble unlocking a faceplate/chuck from the spindle, because my Woodfast lathe has a hexnut at the spindle where it meets the headstock. By using the supplied spindle wrench, it's not a difficult thing. (It also comes in handy when using it to lock the spindle for spot sanding!)

-----odie-----

I remember those days as well, Odie. I turned a lot of spindle stuff using a large metal working 3-jaw (reversible jaws) chuck. This was on an old bench top lathe with a 1x8 spindle. Non VFD .... my home made wooden handwheel got a lot of use for braking.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

After more than 60 years of hobby turning, I barely remember how I did all my turning then, but yes homemade faceplate or 3 jaw metal chuck, and turning on an large old metal lathe, also no turning tools as we now have.

Nowhere to see or learn from a wood turner, it wasn't easy, but I got hooked and loved it, still do !!

Couple of pieces that were turned by me more than 56 years ago while still living in The Netherlands.

 

[Tom Gall]

Leo, in the 2nd photo...what is that on top of the SS shaft? Looks like clay or a nut of some sort. Maybe you can't remember that far back!

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Leo, in the 2nd photo...what is that on top of the SS shaft? Looks like clay or a nut of some sort. Maybe you can't remember that far back!

That is a bearing ball I brazed onto the top, thanks Tom

 

[Richard Coers]

Richard, I never posted it, but the internal taper surface ran extremely true. "Measure on the internal taper and with a ground pin in the chuck you plan on using." I am not sure i know what you mean here. Are you saying to simply stick a very true piece of steel into the 4 jaws, and see how true is will run farther from the headstock? If so (also not-posted on youtube) the chuck when running on the smaller 46-250 was about 20/1000ths out of true, however when running on the large 46-460 it ran true to less than 1/1000th. I measured perpendicularly to the center line on a surface of the oneway talon that would give me no surface interruptions. Let me know what you think@ Thanks! Nick

Two procedures; measure the internal taper, AND measure on a ground rod held in a chuck. Sorry for the confusion.