Danish oil too flat

[Mike Novak]

Hi

Not sure if I just made a bad choice of finish, or if I’m doing something wrong?

Made a bowl out of red oak. Normally I use shellac with nice gloss, but I wanted this one to have a more durable and low luster finish.

I sanded to 600 grit, and then gave it 3 coats of watco danish oil 24 hours apart. Each coat was allowed to soak in for 15 minutes before wiping off.

The finish I ended up with is almost dead flat. No more gloss than just bare wood.

Would more coats give it more sheen? Did I do something wrong, or is that just what danish oil looks like?

 

[hockenbery]

Would more coats give it more sheen? Did I do something wrong, or is that just what danish oil looks like?

I have used Watco on red oak does a nice job. You are 1/2 to 1/3 done - more coats.

Watco will develop some shine but is not a high gloss finish. 7 - 8 coats ….
I prefer Waterlox. It builds up faster and has less amber color than Watco. Watco will look good on red oak.

Wax will add more gloss.

You can do the same with Waterlox or watco
I sand wood to 320, (optional coat thin blond shellac sand with 400 when dry), coat of Waterlox wipe off,
Next day sand 400, coat of Waterlox wipe off
Next day use the grey scotch brite, coat with Waterlox wipe off, repeat this step until it builds up.

3 choices here
1. For a nice soft finish wet sand with water and grey scotchbrite.
2. I use the 3 step Beal buff, red ruge, white diamond, carnuba wax
3. I have used oldies oil over 2 coats of Waterlox and get a real nice finish after drying over night rub it out lightly with grey scotch brite, apply the odies oil rubbing it in with a soft cloth let dry 30-40 minutes and then buff with a clean soft cloth.

Note on a woods with large pores or other crevices I use compressed air to get the Waterlox out when wiping. If a tiny puddle dries it will be shiny.

 

[Mike Novak]

Thank you! Sounds like I just need more coats to get what I want.

 

[hockenbery]

Also you can always buff on carnuba wax for more gloss.

 

[Doug Freeman]

@Mike Novak you dont say if you are doing this - flood the surface, and keep adding finish to keep the surface wet, for the 15-20 min, then wipe off. It appears flat because you have not sealed the wood yet.

Redwood will hold a lot of finish. You may need to do 2-3 flood-on coats to get it sealed.

An alternative is applying it more lightly but a lot more coats. Flooding and keeping it wet will get the most finish soaked into the wood, providing more strength to the structure. Either approach works

 

[Odie]

flood the surface, and keep adding finish to keep the surface wet

^^^^^ This is what I do, too.

The operative word here is "flood"......nice and sloppy wet is what works best.

Keep adding DO, until it no longer has any dry spots after about 15 minutes from the previous application.

I think many turners don't realize that the DO not only stains the wood, but it soaks in and hardens in the interior......it essentially acts as a sealer. This is why I feel subsequent delayed coats of DO don't do much of anything, because the prior coat hardens and is a barrier against further coats after the initial coat has dried and hardened. (That is, if the initial coat was very wet, and kept wet until it no longer penetrates the wood.)

As far as being "flat"......that is what DO is. It's not super shiny, and another finish is probably best if that's what is desired. As Al pointed out, adding Carnauba wax does add some shine. I am using the Beall 3-step buffing system, and have been very happy with that......has a very nice semi-shiny sheen to it, without the "super shiny" look.....but, this is my preference.

-----odie-----

 

[Tom Albrecht]

^^^^^ This is what I do, too.

The operative word here is "flood"......nice and sloppy wet is what works best.

Keep adding DO, until it no longer has any dry spots after about 15 minutes from the previous application.

I think many turners don't realize that the DO not only stains the wood, but it soaks in and hardens in the interior......it essentially acts as a sealer. This is why I feel subsequent delayed coats of DO don't do much of anything, because the prior coat hardens and is a barrier against further coats after the initial coat has dried and hardened. (That is, if the initial coat was very wet, and kept wet until it no longer penetrates the wood.)

As far as being "flat"......that is what DO is. It's not super shiny, and another finish is probably best if that's what is desired. As Al pointed out, adding Carnauba wax does add some shine. I am using the Beall 3-step buffing system, and have been very happy with that......has a very nice semi-shiny sheen to it, without the "super shiny" look.....but, this is my preference.

-----odie-----

I call Odie the resident Danish Oil Specialist on this forum. Look at the photos he posts.

 

[Brian Horais]

Hi

Not sure if I just made a bad choice of finish, or if I’m doing something wrong?

Made a bowl out of red oak. Normally I use shellac with nice gloss, but I wanted this one to have a more durable and low luster finish.

I sanded to 600 grit, and then gave it 3 coats of watco danish oil 24 hours apart. Each coat was allowed to soak in for 15 minutes before wiping off.

The finish I ended up with is almost dead flat. No more gloss than just bare wood.

Would more coats give it more sheen? Did I do something wrong, or is that just what danish oil looks like?

Mike, you are almost there. All you need to do now is to buff the finish with multiple grits of buffing compound. I use the Beall system and get very nice results. I concur with Odie, the expert on this topic, about flooding the grain. Different grains are thirstier than others. You can still buff that piece you made and you should be impressed with the finish when you do. I prefer a shiny but not glassy finish so that the grain still shows. Here's an image of a twisted Oak bowl with a Watco oil finish buffed on the Beall system. Keep at it! My preferred finish is Danish (Watco) oil.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I also agree with Odie's synopsis and will add for most woods two coats are sufficient. Oak may require more as it is so porous. Now as to what he said I disagree IMHO, DO does not, per se, stain the wood it adds a layer of opacity as almost all finishes change the color of wood. As Brian indicated even when the finish DO gives "looks" dull the buffs will bring that out. One thing on buffing is to keep at it if there are dull spots as those are likely thick coats of the finish and need to be buffed off.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I also agree with Odie's synopsis and will add for most woods two coats are sufficient. Oak may require more as it is so porous. Now as to what he said I disagree IMHO, DO does not, per se, stain the wood it adds a layer of opacity as almost all finishes change the color of wood. As Brian indicated even when the finish DO gives "looks" dull the buffs will bring that out. One thing on buffing is to keep at it if there are dull spots as those are likely thick coats of the finish and need to be buffed off.

Unfinished wood, because of its microscopic surface texture, scatters light much more than wood that has a finish applied. The visual result of light scattering on bare wood is that it decreases apparent contrast which is why it appears to be lighter in color. When a finish is applied, it smoothes the microscopic surface roughness and results in less light scattering which means higher contrast and a richer-looking color. You can see the same effect by just wetting unfinished wood with water or a solvent like alcohol.

I think that you meant to say Danish oil adds a layer of transparency. Most oil-based transparent finishes have a bit of amber color, but even with a water-clear finish, there will be an increase in amber tint just because the finish help to more clearly see the true color of the wood.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Hi

Not sure if I just made a bad choice of finish, or if I’m doing something wrong?

Made a bowl out of red oak. Normally I use shellac with nice gloss, but I wanted this one to have a more durable and low luster finish.

I sanded to 600 grit, and then gave it 3 coats of watco danish oil 24 hours apart. Each coat was allowed to soak in for 15 minutes before wiping off.

The finish I ended up with is almost dead flat. No more gloss than just bare wood.

Would more coats give it more sheen? Did I do something wrong, or is that just what danish oil looks like?

@Mike Novak

Danish oil should be applied just as you would apply a wiping varnish. That is, apply a light coat with a lint-free cotton cloth (an old t-shirt is great for this) and let it dry. The reason is that Watco Danish Oil Finish is a thinned oil-varnish blend and not an oil-only finish that you would rub in and then wipe off the excess. The good news is that nothing has been harmed to this point. Just apply one or more thin coats of the Watco Danish Oil Finish just as you would apply any other wiping varnish.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I go through gallons of Watco Danish oil per year. I also completely flood the piece as @odie does. On some bowls, I have to do a second application because the end grain soaks it up more. Because @hockenbery recommended Waterlox, I made a few calls here, but nobody carries it. Shipping add $50 hazardous material charge, making it out of a reasonable price range.

 

[robo hippy]

I don't know if they even make it any more, but I used to use the Deft Danish oil. I thought I got a better 'build up' than with the Watco.

robo hippy

 

[Mike Novak]

I have been doing some experiments based on the great advice here. I can get a good finish either by flooding the piece, or doing more coats.

It seems to me that flooding plus 1 or 2 wipe on coats is faster and gives a better shine, but it darkens the wood more, and uses lots more oil. Looks great on red oak, but made elm sapwood look yellow and oily.

Putting on 7-10 thinner coats looked much better on the elm, and used a LOT less oil. It also took a lot longer.

I also picked up a beall buffing set. For both methods it gives the piece that nice silky feel and evens out the shine. Now I need to get some buffs for inside the bowls.

Thanks everyone for the great advice! I have added several new techniques to my tool bag.

This box used 2 coats of DO, the first a soaking flood coat, followed by buffing the outside only.

 

[hughie]

If you want some sort of sheen or shine then buff it after the the DO is fully dry, or treat it with Antique Oil which is applied much like DO by flooding it and buffing later. The AO will give you more shine than the DO, but much depends on how good the sanded finish to the piece is.

 

[Odie]

much depends on how good the sanded finish to the piece is.

This should be chiseled in stone!

 

[Ed Sandle]

Sorry to bring up such an old post, but I haven't been around much lately. There is another thing you can do with watco danish oil, and that is, say you have a qt can, add a touch more poly to it. Don't add too much to start, say about 2 oz or so to a qt can. You can't take any out if you put too much in.
Personally, I do not want a glossy look on most all of my turnings, but a satin or semigloss at the most for me, so I would never add gloss poly to my danish oil as I feel it gives the wrong look for a quality turned piece of wood except in a very rare case. I feel it cheapens the look, but that is just my feelings.
One of the reasons that I played with adding a bit of poly years back was that I was looking for a way to end up with a finished but natural look without waxing as the final step. I'm not a fan of waxing a turned piece unless needed as over time it needs to be waxed again and wax is a dust attractor. I will use a Yorkshire grit wax or such if needed to smooth out an oiled finish at times. Also you can just use some steel wool with Johnsons pastewax. Keep in mind that it you waxed a piece to get the look you wanted, then sold it, a couple years later that piece may not be cherished as much as it was when first bought because it was not kept up with being waxed.
Usually, 2 coats of Danish oil is sufficient for most woods, but woods as such Yellow birch that i let spalt somewhat could take 3-4 coats.
I also don't apply the finish a day apart but wait 2-3 days or more.

 

[hughie]

Sorry to bring up such an old post, but I haven't been around much lately. There is another thing you can do with watco danish oil, and that is, say you have a qt can, add a touch more poly to it. Don't add too much to start, say about 2 oz or so to a qt can. You can't take any out if you put too much in.
Personally, I do not want a glossy look on most all of my turnings, but a satin or semigloss at the most for me, so I would never add gloss poly to my danish oil as I feel it gives the wrong look for a quality turned piece of wood except in a very rare case. I feel it cheapens the look, but that is just my feelings.
One of the reasons that I played with adding a bit of poly years back was that I was looking for a way to end up with a finished but natural look without waxing as the final step. I'm not a fan of waxing a turned piece unless needed as over time it needs to be waxed again and wax is a dust attractor. I will use a Yorkshire grit wax or such if needed to smooth out an oiled finish at times. Also you can just use some steel wool with Johnsons pastewax. Keep in mind that it you waxed a piece to get the look you wanted, then sold it, a couple years later that piece may not be cherished as much as it was when first bought because it was not kept up with being waxed.
Usually, 2 coats of Danish oil is sufficient for most woods, but woods as such Yellow birch that i let spalt somewhat could take 3-4 coats.
I also don't apply the finish a day apart but wait 2-3 days or more.

Oh that sounds very familiar I tend to mix my own using spar varnish and I m always a bit heavy handed on the varnish component. The other thing I do give it several coats 3 or 4 after the first major flooding coat. Then leave for a few days to really dry/harden up and then buff it at high speed to start then slow around 900rpm. But the sanding must be without blemish and super smooth, I liken it to chrome plating.

 

[John K Jordan]

I tend to leave the "danish" oil as is and, as mentioned by others, apply more coats then buff or use 0000 steel wool or something else to get the finished look I like. I usually use six to ten applications over a week or two, leave each wet coat on for about 20 minutes, then wipe it off and let it dry overnight and longer after the final coat.

Sometimes I may wet sand with the "oil" on a piece 1000 grit sandpaper or 0000 steel wool in a spot or two if needed. It will eventually build up enough (extremely thin) layers that it can easily be buffed to a shine or given a satin or semigloss look. I think the multiple thin coats help protect the wood somewhat from oxidation and discoloration.

Not a good process for the impatient or those under a deadline!

 

[hughie]

I tend to leave the "danish" oil as is and, as mentioned by others, apply more coats then buff or use 0000 steel wool or something else to get the finished look I like. I usually use six to ten applications over a week or two, leave each wet coat on for about 20 minutes, then wipe it off and let it dry overnight and longer after the final coat.

Sometimes I may wet sand with the "oil" on a piece 1000 grit sandpaper or 0000 steel wool in a spot or two if needed. It will eventually build up enough (extremely thin) layers that it can easily be buffed to a shine or given a satin or semigloss look. I think the multiple thin coats help protect the wood somewhat from oxidation and discoloration.

Not a good process for the impatient or those under a deadline!

Lol and very true, but then quality is rarely a quick process