Chatter Problems - HELP!

[Grayson Truax]

I am having problems with getting chatter and it seems like the spindle might not be running true. I turned this round and I'm still getting areas where it seems like it's running eccentrically. I'm honestly not sure what the problem is but I need some insight. I attached some pictures and videos of the most recent problem.

I upgraded from a Jet 1221VS to a Laguna 1836 and I feel like there hasn't been any improvement in the accuracy of my turning and I'm facing issues like this frequently. I've had the lathe for a month or two with very light usage because of my schedule, but also because turning on a machine that doesn't seem to work well makes it unenjoyable! I'm still quite an amateur compared to many as I've only been turning for about two years and just recently tried to start using traditional tools.

I have checked headstock and tailstock alignment a few times, but I will check again this morning. In this video I'm using a direct thread EWT faceplate, but I have trouble with my Nova chuck as well.
Please help!!

Imgur Link

 

[Ron Solfest]

Do you have the tailstock engaged? A secure grip in the drive? Sharp tools? Light touch? Varying speed can also help with chatter, but that large blank with uneven gouges in it suggests trying to cut too aggressively, not harmonic chatter to me. Try taking a light cut with handle of the gouge held near level, flute near 9 o’clock pointing toward direction of cut; bevel on back of gouge ~parallel to the axis. Start off the tailstock end and take a light cut towards the headstock; it should clean up pretty easily. After you get the hang of it you can lower the handle more and take more aggressive cuts with the wings of the gouge, but approach that from the less aggressive side instead of hogging off too much wood first.

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

I am having problems with getting chatter and it seems like the spindle might not be running true. I turned this round and I'm still getting areas where it seems like it's running eccentrically. I'm honestly not sure what the problem is but I need some insight. I attached some pictures and videos of the most recent problem.

I upgraded from a Jet 1221VS to a Laguna 1836 and I feel like there hasn't been any improvement in the accuracy of my turning and I'm facing issues like this frequently. I've had the lathe for a month or two with very light usage because of my schedule, but also because turning on a machine that doesn't seem to work well makes it unenjoyable! I'm still quite an amateur compared to many as I've only been turning for about two years and just recently tried to start using traditional tools.

I have checked headstock and tailstock alignment a few times, but I will check again this morning. In this video I'm using a direct thread EWT faceplate, but I have trouble with my Nova chuck as well.
Please help!!

Imgur Link

That does not look like a tool problem to me. Look at the very bottom of your piece on that video and you will see there is runout. Did this happen with your Jet?

 

[Darryl Fective]

I'm guessing if you try a different piece of wood (spindle orientation) it will go away. I'm thinking it's the difference between cutting side and end grain. You can see the difference in cut as you turn it slowly. End grain is harder and resists cutting, while side grain will try to draw the cutting edge in deeper. Try again with a freshly sharpened gouge and a light touch and just barely following the bevel. (not pushing/rubbing bevel)

 

[Grayson Truax]

Do you have the tailstock engaged? A secure grip in the drive? Sharp tools? Light touch? Varying speed can also help with chatter, but that large blank with uneven gouges in it suggests trying to cut too aggressively, not harmonic chatter to me. Try taking a light cut with handle of the gouge held near level, flute near 9 o’clock pointing toward direction of cut; bevel on back of gouge ~parallel to the axis. Start off the tailstock end and take a light cut towards the headstock; it should clean up pretty easily. After you get the hang of it you can lower the handle more and take more aggressive cuts with the wings of the gouge, but approach that from the less aggressive side instead of hogging off too much wood first.

Thanks for the suggestions and the insight. I’ve made heavy cuts, light cuts, carbide tools, all of the above from both sides of the blank; It happens regardless. The tailstock is engaged as well. I’m truly at a loss.

 

[Grayson Truax]

That does not look like a tool problem to me. Look at the very bottom of your piece on that video and you will see there is runout. Did this happen with your Jet?

This absolutely never happened with my Jet and that’s the most frustrating part! I bought my Jet pre-owned for pretty cheap and it ran very true. I bought this brand new and it’s been having problems from day one. Is there any way to reduce or fix that amount of runout? It’s still under warranty because of how short I’ve had it, but I’m not sure whether I should reach out to Laguna support yet so that’s why I started here.

 

[Grayson Truax]

I'm guessing if you try a different piece of wood (spindle orientation) it will go away. I'm thinking it's the difference between cutting side and end grain. You can see the difference in cut as you turn it slowly. End grain is harder and resists cutting, while side grain will try to draw the cutting edge in deeper. Try again with a freshly sharpened gouge and a light touch and just barely following the bevel. (not pushing/rubbing bevel)

This has happened with many different pieces, but I mostly do faceplate turning as opposed to any spindle turning. These cuts are freshly sharpened and like I mentioned in the other reply, it really doesn’t matter which tool I use nor how I cut. I hate to blame the machine because I am still a novice, but I’m experienced enough to know that my Jet lathe never had this issue.

 

[Ron Solfest]

This has happened with many different pieces, but I mostly do faceplate turning as opposed to any spindle turning.

These look to be a tool control issue, not a tool issue to me. As DFective said, with faceplate turning every 90degree you get the sharp gouge following grain into the wood, then pushing it away. If you take too aggressive of cut it will make these forces beyond what you can compensate for and keep the bevel gliding over the round surface.

As mentioned before, try closing off the flute so it doesn’t grab as much wood and I think your problems will go away. I suspect you’re feeling pretty beat up by the cuts right now.

 

[Ron Solfest]

Grayson - also if you have a turning club in your area it would help your progress advance exponentially. 10 minutes with someone “hands on” will give you understanding that it will take hours trying to get by typing and imperfect communication of the internet

 

[robo hippy]

Although this number doesn't seem to come up very often, there is a spindle ratio for turning, 10 to 1. So, a 1 inch diameter spindle 10 inches long generally won't chatter or wobble. Anything beyond that can and will move with bevel rubbing. As some one said, "The bevel should rub the wood, but the wood should not know it!" This is the single biggest hurdle I had to get past when learning to turn. Well, I am still learning after 30 years of turning. If you are getting those nice little spiral marks in a longer spindle, part of it is because you are using too much bevel pressure, and part of it is because a long thin spindle does not have enough mass to keep it from flexing even with the slightest bevel rub. If you are using too much tailstock pressure, this will add to the whipping. There are some who have chuck mounts on the tailstock where they actually put the spindle under tension by pulling with the tailstock rather than pushing. This can help some, but is not a cure all. Of course, having a sharp tool helps a lot, and I do strop my skews which really helps me. Also with spindles, many will start at the tailstock end and work back to the headstock, finish turning as you go back to the headstock. I do like my spindles mounted in a chuck rather than the spur drive.

robo hippy

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Grayson- I like Robo's spindle ratio rule (I knowingly violated it by over 4x on my last project... the things I do to make it difficult for myself), but it doesn't seem to be the case here. That lump of wood is several inches in diameter and shorter than the tool rest. And I saw nice light shavings coming off the gouge, so I'd not guess too heavy of a cut. I think you've ruled out head and tailstock alignment. You also mention faceplate and chuck use, so are you getting this to happen when cutting without tailstock support? I saw the runout in the video (the bottom edge of the wood bouncing around) that Gabriel mentioned as well.

My 2 guesses- if it's happening only with between centers work, that the live center may have some slop in the bearings, making it so the point is not supported correctly and it is not spinning on an axis. Or, maybe the headstock spindle is not adjusted properly and there is play. Remove the wood and any chuck/faceplate/drive center. Grab the right end of the shaft with one hand, the handwheel with the other, and jerk it around to see if you can feel any sort of play.

This headstock bearing play could be so slight that you'd not feel it by hand. You may need a dial indicator (with a magnetic base to stick to the bed) and make contact on the spindle shoulder left of the threads, rotating the shaft (by hand, or at very low RPM with the motor) and see if there is any sort of run-out happening at it spins.

I just watched the video again. How far is the tailstock spindle/quill wound out of the tailstock? Grab it and see if there's any play in that spindle, both with the tailstock spindle lock engaged and disengaged. See if you can mimic the problem with the tailstock spindle wound back into the tailstock and locked down. And if you have another live center, install that, too, and see how it works.

I'll admit, my ideas may not be applicable, but it's what comes to mind as I sit in a different part of the world from you. Good luck, I hope you find resolution.

Edit- what is the chance that the headstock spindle shoulder, left of the spindle threads, is not machined square to the spinning axis of the spindle? (This is the face of the spindle that a chuck stops up against.) This would prevent chucks and faceplates from bearing fully against the shoulder of the spindle, and under rotational load with the tool cutting the wood, it may cause the chuck/faceplate to move off axis at the same rate, essentially wiggling on the spindle threads. It seems mounted tightly, but it won't be. Spin the headstock spindle with nothing mounted to it (faceplates, chucks, centers), start the motor and a slower rpm (100rpm or so), and LIGHTLY hold the tip of an awl or screwdriver up to the spindle shoulder. With very light contact, you should be scraping that tool on the spindle shoulder 360-degrees, no jumping or bouncing. Try it with a magic marker tip, barely-BARELY letting the pen tip touch the shoulder. It should leave a mark 360 degrees around. If it's not, I think you are a step closer to solving the problem.

 

[Grayson Truax]

These look to be a tool control issue, not a tool issue to me. As DFective said, with faceplate turning every 90degree you get the sharp gouge following grain into the wood, then pushing it away. If you take too aggressive of cut it will make these forces beyond what you can compensate for and keep the bevel gliding over the round surface.

As mentioned before, try closing off the flute so it doesn’t grab as much wood and I think your problems will go away. I suspect you’re feeling pretty beat up by the cuts right now.

Truly I'm not sure why I'm having these issues. I have many hours turning with carbide tools but I'm still having difficulties with those as well. I have no doubt that I may be contributing to the issues, but I have a feeling that there is likely something wrong on the machine side too.

 

[Grayson Truax]

Although this number doesn't seem to come up very often, there is a spindle ratio for turning, 10 to 1. So, a 1 inch diameter spindle 10 inches long generally won't chatter or wobble. Anything beyond that can and will move with bevel rubbing. As some one said, "The bevel should rub the wood, but the wood should not know it!" This is the single biggest hurdle I had to get past when learning to turn. Well, I am still learning after 30 years of turning. If you are getting those nice little spiral marks in a longer spindle, part of it is because you are using too much bevel pressure, and part of it is because a long thin spindle does not have enough mass to keep it from flexing even with the slightest bevel rub. If you are using too much tailstock pressure, this will add to the whipping. There are some who have chuck mounts on the tailstock where they actually put the spindle under tension by pulling with the tailstock rather than pushing. This can help some, but is not a cure all. Of course, having a sharp tool helps a lot, and I do strop my skews which really helps me. Also with spindles, many will start at the tailstock end and work back to the headstock, finish turning as you go back to the headstock. I do like my spindles mounted in a chuck rather than the spur drive.

robo hippy

This could be part of the problem. This piece is pretty oddly sized with about a 7 inch diameter and 10 inches long, so that ratio doesn't seem to be the problem in that way, however I think that I am likely applying too much bevel pressure because I am really trying to keep the bevel contacted with the wood and pushing too much. I will try to see if that helps too.

 

[Ed Sandle]

One other longshot possibility is you're tailstock may not be aligning up with your headstock. If so, and if using quite a bit of pressure with your tailstock, you will induce vibration. You can check this two ways, one is to put a point in your headstock and tailstock and see if they align when tightening down. Second way is to mount a piece that is reasonably true and balanced and bring your tailstock up to it with light pressure. As you increase the tailstock pressure at a reasonably fast speed, the vibration will increase with the more pressure you put on it.
If this is the case, go back to putting a point in the tailstock and headstock and see if the alignment gets better by pushing or pulling on the tailstock point before tightening the tailstock down.
Robo also hinted at too much tailstock pressure causing whipping, but I feel if so, it is more related to being out of alignment, but in all honesty, I also don't feel you need all that much tailstock pressure for most turnings.

 

[Grayson Truax]

Grayson- I like Robo's spindle ratio rule (I knowingly violated it by over 4x on my last project... the things I do to make it difficult for myself), but it doesn't seem to be the case here. That lump of wood is several inches in diameter and shorter than the tool rest. And I saw nice light shavings coming off the gouge, so I'd not guess too heavy of a cut. I think you've ruled out head and tailstock alignment. You also mention faceplate and chuck use, so are you getting this to happen when cutting without tailstock support? I saw the runout in the video (the bottom edge of the wood bouncing around) that Gabriel mentioned as well.

My 2 guesses- if it's happening only with between centers work, that the live center may have some slop in the bearings, making it so the point is not supported correctly and it is not spinning on an axis. Or, maybe the headstock spindle is not adjusted properly and there is play. Remove the wood and any chuck/faceplate/drive center. Grab the right end of the shaft with one hand, the handwheel with the other, and jerk it around to see if you can feel any sort of play.

This headstock bearing play could be so slight that you'd not feel it by hand. You may need a dial indicator (with a magnetic base to stick to the bed) and make contact on the spindle shoulder left of the threads, rotating the shaft (by hand, or at very low RPM with the motor) and see if there is any sort of run-out happening at it spins.

I just watched the video again. How far is the tailstock spindle/quill wound out of the tailstock? Grab it and see if there's any play in that spindle, both with the tailstock spindle lock engaged and disengaged. See if you can mimic the problem with the tailstock spindle wound back into the tailstock and locked down. And if you have another live center, install that, too, and see how it works.

I'll admit, my ideas may not be applicable, but it's what comes to mind as I sit in a different part of the world from you. Good luck, I hope you find resolution.

Edit- what is the chance that the headstock spindle shoulder, left of the spindle threads, is not machined square to the spinning axis of the spindle? (This is the face of the spindle that a chuck stops up against.) This would prevent chucks and faceplates from bearing fully against the shoulder of the spindle, and under rotational load with the tool cutting the wood, it may cause the chuck/faceplate to move off axis at the same rate, essentially wiggling on the spindle threads. It seems mounted tightly, but it won't be. Spin the headstock spindle with nothing mounted to it (faceplates, chucks, centers), start the motor and a slower rpm (100rpm or so), and LIGHTLY hold the tip of an awl or screwdriver up to the spindle shoulder. With very light contact, you should be scraping that tool on the spindle shoulder 360-degrees, no jumping or bouncing. Try it with a magic marker tip, barely-BARELY letting the pen tip touch the shoulder. It should leave a mark 360 degrees around. If it's not, I think you are a step closer to solving the problem.

Thank you for the long reply. Everyone here has been very helpful for a first time poster! This was with full tail stock support and mounted with screws in a 4 inch faceplate. I'll post a picture here too.

I will see if there's any issues with the head stock play momentarily...:

I just checked. I can't force it back and forth at all so it doesn't seem like there is any play. I put on a live center and it seems as if the point is running true. Video:

Next, The tailstock was only about an inch and a half out of the tailstock so it wasn't overextended by any means. There wasn't any play with this either.

Finally, I think the seating against the headstock could be a big problem that I wasn't aware of before. Should this gap be present? It has this similar gap with the Nova chuck mounted and the faceplate that the machine came with.

 

[Grayson Truax]

One other longshot possibility is you're tailstock may not be aligning up with your headstock. If so, and if using quite a bit of pressure with your tailstock, you will induce vibration. You can check this two ways, one is to put a point in your headstock and tailstock and see if they align when tightening down. Second way is to mount a piece that is reasonably true and balanced and bring your tailstock up to it with light pressure. As you increase the tailstock pressure at a reasonably fast speed, the vibration will increase with the more pressure you put on it.
If this is the case, go back to putting a point in the tailstock and headstock and see if the alignment gets better by pushing or pulling on the tailstock point before tightening the tailstock down.
Robo also hinted at too much tailstock pressure causing whipping, but I feel if so, it is more related to being out of alignment, but in all honesty, I also don't feel you need all that much tailstock pressure for most turnings.

I think there may be an additional issue with the tailstock pressure, but the alignment seems close enough to not be causing an issue. I'll attach some photos here.

 

[Vincent Vogel]

Thank you for the long reply. Everyone here has been very helpful for a first time poster! This was with full tail stock support and mounted with screws in a 4 inch faceplate. I'll post a picture here too.

I will see if there's any issues with the head stock play momentarily...:

I just checked. I can't force it back and forth at all so it doesn't seem like there is any play. I put on a live center and it seems as if the point is running true. Video:

Next, The tailstock was only about an inch and a half out of the tailstock so it wasn't overextended by any means. There wasn't any play with this either.

Finally, I think the seating against the headstock could be a big problem that I wasn't aware of before. Should this gap be present? It has this similar gap with the Nova chuck mounted and the faceplate that the machine came with.

View attachment 70225

Your faceplate and chuck should bottom out on the spindle flange where you have a gap. You'll need to figure out why it doesn't. I have one faceplate that isn't long enough and does what yours does in the picture. From the pictures of your headstock and tailstock alignment that looks ok from what I see in the pictures.

 

[Charles Cadenhead]

Finally, I think the seating against the headstock could be a big problem that I wasn't aware of before. Should this gap be present? It has this similar gap with the Nova chuck mounted and the faceplate that the machine came with.

View attachment 70225

That's how it should look with a Laguna. Your front bearings look fine. Have you lined up two spurs, one on spindle and one in the tailstock? The two points should touch and line up.

NVM: I see your pictures now. They don't line up. Try cleaning under the tailstock, you may have some dust and gunk under it causing it to be slightly raised.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

We have a winner(?!). The gap, it should not be there at all.

Chucks and faceplates will fit flat up against the spindle shoulder and are self-tightening enough in the turning process that you need the tommy bar that came with the chuck or faceplate to loosen it from the spindle. I see the set screw (grub screw) on the faceplate, do you have that snugged down as well? (It's meant to lock the faceplate/chuck to the spindle so it can't unthread while running in reverse.) Loosen that set screw off and see if the faceplate can continue threading onto the spindle until it hits the shoulder of the spindle. If it does, problem solved (and you can decide if you want to use the set screw, and I won't tell you if I use the set screws...)

Your headstock spindle threaded section may be a fraction of an inch too long if both chucks and faceplates have this gap problem (if the set screw is not causing the problem). If memory serves, Craft Supplies or maybe Packard, sell a machined "bushing" washer that you can slip over the spindle to fill that gap. Send that photo to the suppliers and see what they have for you. Do not use wood or plastic, they compress. Use a steel bushing. (Someone had a nylon bushing for this, but it was to help with unthreading, not gap filling.) Some good hardware stores sell machine bushings (precision milled washers) in different sizes, maybe you can find one local or online, like from MSC or Grainger.

I think you now know what the problem is, and filling that gap is the answer. Weird, though. I just measured my Vicmarc VL200 spindle- 1" from outer end of thread to shoulder. My Oneway 1224, 1-1/4" from outer end of spindle thread to shoulder. My Vicmarc and Oneway chucks and faceplates, the threaded sections are all different length dimensions. So, if you are using that set screw, maybe that's the problem? Remove the set screw, see if things thread on all the way. And you may have to get a bushing as well. Please keep us updated and welcome to the forum!

Edit- this is the plastic one Craft Supplies sells. It is not a gap filler like you may need. You want something like this made from steel. I'm still thinking about that set screw with suspicion...

No-Lock Spindle Washer

Have you ever had your chuck or faceplate get stuck on your lathe spindle? We have the solution. Our team has developed the Turners Select™ No-Lock Spindle Washer using a special DuPont® plastic that will prevent your chuck from ever getting stuck again. The No-Lock spindle washer is highly...

woodturnerscatalog.com

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

Spindle runout should be consistent and would not affect the wood being turned once it is turned round therefore the problem must be way the tool is presented to the work piece.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Thank you for the long reply. Everyone here has been very helpful for a first time poster! This was with full tail stock support and mounted with screws in a 4 inch faceplate. I'll post a picture here too.

I will see if there's any issues with the head stock play momentarily...:

I just checked. I can't force it back and forth at all so it doesn't seem like there is any play. I put on a live center and it seems as if the point is running true. Video:

Next, The tailstock was only about an inch and a half out of the tailstock so it wasn't overextended by any means. There wasn't any play with this either.

Finally, I think the seating against the headstock could be a big problem that I wasn't aware of before. Should this gap be present? It has this similar gap with the Nova chuck mounted and the faceplate that the machine came with.

View attachment 70225

As mentioned by Steve , I suspect that is your problem - Quite possibly you have a small bit of a ridge/mushrooming on the spindle's shoulder such that it does not quite slip inside the faceplate or chuck's recess - I'd take a flat file and take a light stroke and if you do have a ridge or mushrooming, it'll show because file scratches on shaft near spindle flange shoulder will show and then you have shiny space, and then you see where file took down the ridge on end of spindle before threads start. Best way I can describe it , anyhow. but try the file trick and take another pic, and I bet you'll see what's wrong there.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Yeah, like Brian said. For that matter, maybe there's a muffed spindle thread stopping the full threading of the faceplate/chuck. Maybe something gentle filing can fix.

If all else is good and it is simply that you need a gap filler, here's a possible remedy from Amazon. It's a flat washer, not sure if it is machined flat like a bushing. Actual inside diameter of 1-3/8", rest of specs in the product details. Might need to stack 2 of them.

Amazon.com

Here is an actual machine bushing, 14 gauge so you may need to stack 2 of them. Gotta buy a 7-piece pack of them, but they are only $0.32 each (a couple buck for the package). These ideas should get you going, best of luck!

https://www.huyett.com/n14-1375-p

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

Thank you for the long reply. Everyone here has been very helpful for a first time poster! This was with full tail stock support and mounted with screws in a 4 inch faceplate. I'll post a picture here too.

I will see if there's any issues with the head stock play momentarily...:

I just checked. I can't force it back and forth at all so it doesn't seem like there is any play. I put on a live center and it seems as if the point is running true. Video:

Next, The tailstock was only about an inch and a half out of the tailstock so it wasn't overextended by any means. There wasn't any play with this either.

Finally, I think the seating against the headstock could be a big problem that I wasn't aware of before. Should this gap be present? It has this similar gap with the Nova chuck mounted and the faceplate that the machine came with.

View attachment 70225

That definitely does not look right. It looks like you face plate is too short. Could you put one the on that you received with your lathe? That will wobble for sure, as the threads have a small amount of play, otherwise you could not screw it on if it was machined to tight. When it seats against the flat part of the spindle is when you get the most support. Also don't be tightening the setscrew on the threads, they will get damaged.

 

[Don Stephan]

You have tried spindle turning only with a four jaw chuck and with a faceplate? Try truing a spindle with a morse taper 4 prong or steb center spur drive inserted in the faceplate spindle to see if the problem continues. First lightly run a finger along the inside of the spindle morse taper, checking for scratches and/or debris, and same for the outside of the drive center morse taper.

 

[Grayson Truax]

We have a winner(?!). The gap, it should not be there at all.
View attachment 70231
Chucks and faceplates will fit flat up against the spindle shoulder and are self-tightening enough in the turning process that you need the tommy bar that came with the chuck or faceplate to loosen it from the spindle. I see the set screw (grub screw) on the faceplate, do you have that snugged down as well? (It's meant to lock the faceplate/chuck to the spindle so it can't unthread while running in reverse.) Loosen that set screw off and see if the faceplate can continue threading onto the spindle until it hits the shoulder of the spindle. If it does, problem solved (and you can decide if you want to use the set screw, and I won't tell you if I use the set screws...)

Your headstock spindle threaded section may be a fraction of an inch too long if both chucks and faceplates have this gap problem (if the set screw is not causing the problem). If memory serves, Craft Supplies or maybe Packard, sell a machined "bushing" washer that you can slip over the spindle to fill that gap. Send that photo to the suppliers and see what they have for you. Do not use wood or plastic, they compress. Use a steel bushing. (Someone had a nylon bushing for this, but it was to help with unthreading, not gap filling.) Some good hardware stores sell machine bushings (precision milled washers) in different sizes, maybe you can find one local or online, like from MSC or Grainger.

I think you now know what the problem is, and filling that gap is the answer. Weird, though. I just measured my Vicmarc VL200 spindle- 1" from outer end of thread to shoulder. My Oneway 1224, 1-1/4" from outer end of spindle thread to shoulder. My Vicmarc and Oneway chucks and faceplates, the threaded sections are all different length dimensions. So, if you are using that set screw, maybe that's the problem? Remove the set screw, see if things thread on all the way. And you may have to get a bushing as well. Please keep us updated and welcome to the forum!

Edit- this is the plastic one Craft Supplies sells. It is not a gap filler like you may need. You want something like this made from steel. I'm still thinking about that set screw with suspicion...

No-Lock Spindle Washer

Have you ever had your chuck or faceplate get stuck on your lathe spindle? We have the solution. Our team has developed the Turners Select™ No-Lock Spindle Washer using a special DuPont® plastic that will prevent your chuck from ever getting stuck again. The No-Lock spindle washer is highly...

woodturnerscatalog.com

Thank you again for the help. The set screw is completely loose and the faceplate nor chuck can be threaded on further. I don't use the set screws at all unless I am running it in reverse with something heavy enough to unthread it so that is out of the equation. I put the nova chuck on and will attach that photo here too. The gap is less, but still present.

 

[Grayson Truax]

Thanks all for the help. I just turned something between centers as a quick test and it was 1000% true once I got it round and there wasn't any play, so I'm not sure it that helps narrow down some things, but it appears to just be an issue with anything threading onto the lathe. I'm not sure whether there should be a gap at this point or not as Charles posted a reply that the gap is normal on the Laguna and it may not seat entirely. I'm truly at a loss.

 

[Charles Cadenhead]

as Charles posted a reply that the gap is normal on the Laguna and it may not seat entirely. I'm truly at a loss.

Sorry for the confusion, I was referring to the bearings. I wasn't paying attention to the faceplate.

 

[John K Jordan]

If you have an experienced person in your area that can come and take a look at your setup, the wood, the tools you are using, and technique it may quickly resolve things.

I recently watched a guy having a problem with chatter on a spindle and 5 seconds of watching him provided the solution & I was able to show him how a small change in technique made a big difference.

From the first video, it looks like you might turning this "spindle" in face mode, cutting into end grain. Is that cylinder a glueup of disks cut from boards? If so, what tool are you using? Perhaps a video of the tool in use would help.

As Darryl mentioned in post #4, that grain orientation presents some challenges. I'd probably try a sharp bowl gouge or a Hunter Hercules tool (but not in the scraper mode!).

JKJ

 

[Brian Gustin]

Thank you again for the help. The set screw is completely loose and the faceplate nor chuck can be threaded on further. I don't use the set screws at all unless I am running it in reverse with something heavy enough to unthread it so that is out of the equation. I put the nova chuck on and will attach that photo here too. The gap is less, but still present.

One way or another that is your issue - the back surface of the chuck insert should mate flat with the front facing surface of the shoulder, should be zero gap - either your spindle has too many threads, the recess in chucks / faceplates are not deep enough, or as I said, the horizontal shoulder of the spindle (I pinpointed the 2 surfaces that should mate to each other in the below image)

The shoulder that the leftmost blue line touches should support the flat surface of the chuck insert - if it does not then your chuck's alignment relative to the spindle is going to be dependent on the threads, which as mentioned, can allow the chuck to shift , wobble, etc, if there's nothing to take up the slack.

 

[Russell Nugent]

Your video with the spur center seems to show thread damage. Looks like that willbptevent anything from threading on all the way

 

[Rick Moreton]

Thank you again for the help. The set screw is completely loose and the faceplate nor chuck can be threaded on further. I don't use the set screws at all unless I am running it in reverse with something heavy enough to unthread it so that is out of the equation. I put the nova chuck on and will attach that photo here too. The gap is less, but still present.

From the photo it looks like the jaws are closed. Try opening them wide before putting the chuck on, the spindle is likely hitting the back of the inserts. On my new lathe I need at least an eighth of an inch gap between jaws or it hits the spindle. My old lathe didn't have the issue with the same chucks.

 

[Ed Sandle]

Anything that goes on your headstock spindle has to butt up to the spindle flange face. That is where your alignment comes from. Some faceplates and spindles don't work together. There will always be play between the spindle male threads and accessory female threads, it is designed that way so that when screwing up to the spindle flange it will align true. If any accessory doesn't screw on so that it bottoms on the face of the spindle flange, it is wrong and needs to be corrected. If you have been using those set screws that probably is your problem as the set screws have probably buggered up the threads. A lot of faceplates need a tap run through them. You will never get true turning till your accessories bottom out on the faceplate flange as something is wrong if they don't. That's what that flange face is designed for, to true up your accessories. You need to figure out why yours don't bottom out.
I haven't used set screws for many many years, there is no need for them. You should be able to spin your chucks and such on and have them lock up on their own without the need for set screws. They should stay locked up even in reverse without set screws.

 

[Mark Fairchild]

Your video with the spur center seems to show thread damage. Looks like that willbptevent anything from threading on all the way.

Good eye Russell, defiantly buggered thread.

 

[Ed Sandle]

Is that a thread adapter on your chuck for a prethreaded chuck? Thread adapters are notorious for not bottoming out. When I first started turning I tried making do with a thread adapter for some things, nothing but problems and had to add a couple plastic washers, which created its own problems, so it would bottom out. I'll never use a thread adapter again.

 

[Ed Sandle]

Yeah, like Brian said. For that matter, maybe there's a muffed spindle thread stopping the full threading of the faceplate/chuck. Maybe something gentle filing can fix.

If all else is good and it is simply that you need a gap filler, here's a possible remedy from Amazon. It's a flat washer, not sure if it is machined flat like a bushing. Actual inside diameter of 1-3/8", rest of specs in the product details. Might need to stack 2 of them.

Amazon.com

Here is an actual machine bushing, 14 gauge so you may need to stack 2 of them. Gotta buy a 7-piece pack of them, but they are only $0.32 each (a couple buck for the package). These ideas should get you going, best of luck!

https://www.huyett.com/n14-1375-p

When you look at their picture and description, those are not machined bushings. They label them as machine bushings, not machined bushings. It's confusing but I wouldn't order those.

 

[Michael Brown]

I consider myself mechanically inclined, so were I in your situation, I would simply get a triangle file and run the motor in reverse and clean up the galled thread at the front of the spindle. I would also check the threads of my chucks and faceplates for galling inside. You might need a new insert for your chuck and new faceplates...(In addition to fixing the thread on the main spindle)

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

Thank you for the long reply. Everyone here has been very helpful for a first time poster! This was with full tail stock support and mounted with screws in a 4 inch faceplate. I'll post a picture here too.

I will see if there's any issues with the head stock play momentarily...:

I just checked. I can't force it back and forth at all so it doesn't seem like there is any play. I put on a live center and it seems as if the point is running true. Video:

Next, The tailstock was only about an inch and a half out of the tailstock so it wasn't overextended by any means. There wasn't any play with this either.

Finally, I think the seating against the headstock could be a big problem that I wasn't aware of before. Should this gap be present? It has this similar gap with the Nova chuck mounted and the faceplate that the machine came with.

View attachment 70225

Ok, after watching that video you have a couple a bigger problems. First the last set of threads on the spindle is completely mushroomed and collapsed. I am not quite sure how you
could fix a thread that damaged, maybe you guys have a suggestion. Second there is a gap between the nose of the spindle and the bearing. That probably needs fixed as well. I will put some photos on for you to see.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

View attachment 70247View attachment 70248


Ok, after watching that video you have a couple a bigger problems. First the last set of threads on the spindle is completely mushroomed and collapsed. I am not quite sure how you
could fix a thread that damaged, maybe you guys have a suggestion. Second there is a gap between the nose of the spindle and the bearing. That probably needs fixed as well. I will put some photos on for you to see.

I agree that the chuck needs to register on the spindle shoulder. The buggered threads could be ground away but that is a kludge and will reduce the holding power slightly. The proper fix is to replace the spindle (and probably the chuck insert as well).

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Ed, thanks for clarifying the "machine" and "machined" bushings. I was assuming the machine bushings would be of a uniform thickness, better than plain washers.

Russell and Gabriel, nice catch on those threads from that video. I missed that video link previously. That mashed thread looks like grub screw damage. I'd seen the far right thread with the minor flat-topping (and maybe other little boogers) that could likely be repaired with a triangular file or dedicated thread file.

Grayson, here's a similar discussion I found on Sawmill Creek from a few years back.

Minor repairs on lathe spindle threads on my American Beauty

I have an American Beauty with spindle threads that have some minor damage. I'm not sure why/how this happened, but that could be a topic for a different thread (pun not intended). Brent from Robust recommended a die from McMaster-Carr, but I'm having trouble determining which die. I...

sawmillcreek.org

Several different fixes are described. For minor repairs, the various files (thread files, triangular files) may do the trick. But if the spindle steel is hardened, filing may be difficult to ineffective. Triangular "saw files" are not designed for hardened steels, saw teeth are carbon steel that file very easily. But, those files are cheap, and they may work. A dedicated thread file may be better if designed for hardened steel and thread profiles, and would clean up any minor damage at the right end of the spindle.

But seeing that destroyed thread Gabriel noted... well, in for a penny, in for a pound. Since it is the very last thread at the left end, and there really is nothing left to lose at this point, I might try to get into the thread and just grind away the damaged patch. (I really do not know if this could affect the holding capacity of the spidle threads overall, but may be worth the effort before replacing the spindle. I don't think it would affect holding power on the threads, it is the faceplate/chuck bearing on the spindle shoulder that provides support and stability, the thread really shouldn't be giving the primary holding power.) A good hardware store with a big Dremel selection should net various grinding stones or carbide burrs that could remove that section of thread, as long as you go into the task with the precision of a brain surgeon as not to damage surrounding thread. Be patient with a light touch. 2 hands on the Dremel. Do some grinding, test fit the faceplate, repeat. Maybe a file could remove all that damage, too.

Gabriel also noted a gap between the left side of the spindle shoulder and the bearing. I don't know those lathes to know if that is normal or not. You said you noticed no play in the headstock spindle, so, that gap may not have significance. If anyone with the same lathe can provide a similar photo, that may help with that issue.

Lastly, I think you're getting the idea on the set/grub screws. They really only work when the lathe and faceplate/chuck come from the same mfr. My Vicmarc lathes have had grub screw slots machined into the spindle to work and secure as intended. Set screws should never engage on the spindle thread, it only causes damage. I don't turn out-bound (requiring reverse motor direction and unthreading of the fitment), and spinning in reverse for sanding is not likely to unwind a fitment from the spindle if you're careful with speeding up and down. Lastly #2, for all of us, be gentle and careful when first starting the threading-on process of anything. That first spindle and fitment thread can easily be mashed if you aren't engaging them squarely to each other.

 

[Charles Cadenhead]

If you're lucky it's just metal filings in the threads and not a mushed thread. I would check the threads on all your chucks and faceplates to see their condition.

Regarding the gap between the end of the spindle and the bearings, I think that's a shadow since I don't see it in the other pictures.