• Congratulations to Alex Bradley winner of the December 2024 Turning Challenge (click here for details)
  • Congratulations to Kris DeVault for "Tri-Corner Trifecta Bowl" being selected as Turning of the Week for December 30, 2024 (click here for details)
  • Conversations are now Direct Messages (click here for details)
  • Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

Center core systems

M

Marcis Sodums

Joined
Dec 6, 2024
Messages
8
Likes
1
Location
Trumansburg NY
I’m going to get a center core saving system as I’ve been gifted several large Burls and I want to get the most out of them.
Do you folks have any pros and cons for the various systems out there?
 
Depends on a number of things but mainly lathe size and, due to cost of the system, how much coring will you do.
I have only used the Oneway system and I considered it safe and easy to learn. I have seen demos on the McNaughton and the Bowl Saver system.
The bowl saver seems limited to me. the McNaughton scary, with a large learning curve. Those who use them swear by them.
Price might be the determining factor.
Woodcut Bowl Saver Max 4 $900.00
McNaughton Large $565.00
Oneway complete for 20" Lathe $995.00
Oneway cutters user replaceable at $38.00 each
I believe McNaughton requires returning to manufacturer for cutter replacement
Bowl saver stellite cutters can be "purchased and replace by your local blade doctor". I take that to mean I am not going to be able to do it myself.
as stated, cost and usage dictates which you buy. Oneway has 4 sizes of blades. I have all and barely ever use the small one. Takes the price down $170.00.

Good luck on whichever you choose.
Ray
 
As Dean said (above) this has been discussed many times over the last couple of years. Look for past threads for tons of information, and strong opinions!
I have the McNaughton, and as said, yes a learning curve. It wasn’t quite as steep as I had been led to believe, but if I had some precious burls, I wouldn’t start with them. Learn the ropes on something easier to come by and then when you’re confident, put a burl on the lathe.1735430121630.jpeg
 
Lots of good advice in earlier threads.

If you do decide on the Oneway Easy Core system, Woodchuckers.com in Canada has great prices. Be sure to select USD currency.
 
I have owned all three of the mentioned systems. Of the three the Oneway was and is the best for me. You will hear that the McNaughton is the most versatile but the Oneway is a whole lot more versatile than it is given credit for. I now only use the Korpro cutters on my knives as they make a world of difference as to how they cut, expensive yes but well worth the money in so many respects.
 
I have the McNaughton. The large set would be too big for most things. I have the standard set and can core larger than what will fit on my lathe. I have a 16” swing. The standard set is around $400.
 
Agree with Bill totally. Just purchased the oneway system this week with the Kopro cutter and very happy with my first nested roughed out set. Went right into the fire and cut a 20 inch dia. walnut blank.
 
I had a McNaughton and it worked quite well once I learned to use it properly but I eventually found a new home for it.

Bowl turning is incredibly popular, of course. However, my view on these corers is probably unpopular and certainly in the minority. If using one, I recommend this crazy idea: waste a little more wood and core much thicker that typical. The extra thickness can allow flexibility to vary the shape of each bowl a little when roughing so all the bowls don’t look as similar. This might be easier to do with some more typical less-figured wood than an amazing burl, though!
 
Hi all, just to add some detail for the Woodcut Bowlsaver products Original and Max 4, yes the cutter is Stellite and I believe the reason for this choice will be of interest. If you visit most Sawmills you will find they use Stellite for the functional reasons the material is resilient to knots and stones in wood and can be uniquely hollow ground. Most customers will never need to replace their Stellite cutter, in fact Woodcut Tools hardly sells any replacement cutters.

Another unique feature of the Woodcut Bowl coring products is that they are simple to operate, the knives are made of 400 grade steel and therefore strong and will retain shape, therefore no need to manage a complex rest for the knife that can also risk dig in.

The Woodcut Tools design is based on a pivot which means the knife returns to exactly the same position to support repeatability.

Lastly Woodcut Tools stands by our products and available at any time, you can contact me (my family owns the business), happy to help you.
 
I have the Woodcut Bowlsaver, 3 knifed version, so far it has been excellent over the last (almost) 6 years.

I too would suggest making fewer cores with more than enough material to allow individual shaping of the final product. I once did 5 cores and 5 bowls from a single blank, never since. I just did it, coz I could.

In general, I get 3 very good sized core blanks from each blank of timber; quality over quantity comes to mind.

As for replacing the tip, I'm not the biggest user but when I get a felled tree, coring 10 blanks by 3 = 30 coring runs, is not uncommon. My Stellite tips still look pretty new, but they all get a swipe or two after each coring with the credit card sized "very fine file" from Woodcut, when I bought the bowlsaver.
 
As I stated above I had all three systems. The McNaughton has the hardest learning curve and once I was getting cores I never felt safe using it, sweated bullets every time I used it. The McNaughton was the first to go. The Woodcut like the Oneway is very easy to use but it is the least flexible as to bowl shape (I'm talking woodcut attached to the tailstock, not much wiggle room there). The Woodcut with its stellite tips cut very well but with two systems one could go and I found a good home for the Woodcut. For the Oneway I knew that there was just one thing I had to do and that was visit Chris Ramsey as he was the best user of the Oneway, which I did and learned a lot. Just to let you know you can get shallower and deeper bowls with the Oneway by how you place the apparatus in relation to the wood basically the same thing you do with the McNaughton that's why I stated that the Oneway is more versatile than given credit for. One thing all three systems have in common is they all cut on a arc.
 
I have the original Bowlsaver with 2 blades. It is just about as flexible as the Oneway system - while it does attach to the TS, there is a lot of adjustment. There is a lot of leeway for using a larger knife to make smaller bowls, affecting bowl shape. As others said, leaving more stock to the cores allows even more flexibility to shape the core. I see the 2blade version on ebay for <$400.

The stellite cutters seem to last a long time. Replacement can be done by a saw blade shop - same as replacing a carbide tooth.

The 2 blade may not go large enough for you. The Max4 and Oneway are pretty close in price, and I’m not sure which I would choose. I think most people like the korpro carbide cutter, which I think is different from the Oneway carbide cutter, so that’s some additional cost.

I also have a McNaughton system. Still learning how to use it. Whether to go with it depends on how adventurous you are.
 
Thank you all for your thoughts, and for taking the time.
My interest in coring is due to a desire to maximize the useable surface of Burls, so in my naïveté I think a system that has flexibility in thickness of cuts and direction of cuts would be optimal.
Which system do you gents think fits best?
 
Thickness of cuts is equally variable with any of the systems--it all depends on where you place your cutter. The more flexibility in the direction of the cut, the more difficult the system is to learn and control. The McNaughton "gives you" the most freedom, the Woodcut and the Oneway are most aimed at hemispherical cuts.

In my hands, the McNaughton is mechanically quick to set up and fussy to align, and the Oneway is mechanically time consuming in set up but quicker to align. YMMV. With the standard cutters, the coring is about the same speed once it's going, but the KorePro on the Oneway reportedly makes it speedier.

Be advised that Kel McNaughton, the tool's designer, apparently likes 'cone' shaped blanks and finished forms. Few of the rest of us share this preference, and his cutters and their use may need a little tweaking to reliably get the more popular, hemispheric shape.
 
Thanks Dean, Just what i was looking for. Do you by chance have any leads on where to find the medium/large combo? Lee Valley no longer seems to have it, nor have I found any other vendor. Perhaps they have stopped production.
 
I have all 3 systems, and prefer the McNaughton. Mostly, I can set it up and take first core in less time than it takes me to set up the other two, probably the Oneway taking the longest. I do not use the Woodcut because I almost never have the tailstock on when coring. The Oneway has worst tip design ever! This is part of why most opt for the Core Pro tip from Mike Hunter. The McNaughton, everyone who tries it swears at it. Those who stick with it and learn to use it swear by it. The biggest problem with it is that the arcs of the blades go straight at the cutting tip rather than follow the perfect arc of the curve. This is why it ALWAYS drifts to the outside of the kerf. I can see it just by looking at the blades, but some may have to lay it on a circle template. I guess that they profile the blades first/round over the edges, then bend it. It is mechanically impossible to get enough pressure on the tip for the perfect arc. Anyone who bends stuff will bend several inches more than they need, then cut off the excess. I guess it is more difficult to ease the edges after the blade is bent. Fixing this would make it far easier to core. I would guess that the tip needs to be heated and then bent. If the laminated cutting material is already on, that could remove the cutting laminate. I have retipped my blades a couple of times and tweaked a little more bend in the tips on several. Silver solder works fine. I use tantung. Stellite also is an excellent material and may take a slightly finer edge than the tantung. I do not know if Kel is making his blades any more or not.

robo hippy
 
Mick Fagan said:
I have the Woodcut Bowlsaver, 3 knifed version, so far it has been excellent over the last (almost) 6 years.

I too would suggest making fewer cores with more than enough material to allow individual shaping of the final product. I once did 5 cores and 5 bowls from a single blank, never since. I just did it, coz I could.

In general, I get 3 very good sized core blanks from each blank of timber; quality over quantity comes to mind.

As for replacing the tip, I'm not the biggest user but when I get a felled tree, coring 10 blanks by 3 = 30 coring runs, is not uncommon. My Stellite tips still look pretty new, but they all get a swipe or two after each coring with the credit card sized "very fine file" from Woodcut, when I bought the bowlsaver.
Click to expand...
Hi Mick yes a Credit card hone is a simple solution to sharpen an edge, but our recommendation is a slight sharpen of the front edge of the cutter (not top or side) on CBN which will raise a Hollow grind to produce nice shavings and support the cutter to track through the wood. In our experience a credit card hone can't raise the same quality Hollow Grind.
 
Doug Freeman said:
I have the original Bowlsaver with 2 blades. It is just about as flexible as the Oneway system - while it does attach to the TS, there is a lot of adjustment. There is a lot of leeway for using a larger knife to make smaller bowls, affecting bowl shape. As others said, leaving more stock to the cores allows even more flexibility to shape the core. I see the 2blade version on ebay for <$400.

The stellite cutters seem to last a long time. Replacement can be done by a saw blade shop - same as replacing a carbide tooth.

The 2 blade may not go large enough for you. The Max4 and Oneway are pretty close in price, and I’m not sure which I would choose. I think most people like the korpro carbide cutter, which I think is different from the Oneway carbide cutter, so that’s some additional cost.

I also have a McNaughton system. Still learning how to use it. Whether to go with it depends on how adventurous you are.
Click to expand...
Just a note on the Woodcut Bowlsaver products you mention selling on eBay for <$400 they are counterfeit, have a check of the customer reviews, plus where do customers go for support in case they need it?
 
robo hippy said:
I have all 3 systems, and prefer the McNaughton. Mostly, I can set it up and take first core in less time than it takes me to set up the other two, probably the Oneway taking the longest. I do not use the Woodcut because I almost never have the tailstock on when coring. The Oneway has worst tip design ever! This is part of why most opt for the Core Pro tip from Mike Hunter. The McNaughton, everyone who tries it swears at it. Those who stick with it and learn to use it swear by it. The biggest problem with it is that the arcs of the blades go straight at the cutting tip rather than follow the perfect arc of the curve. This is why it ALWAYS drifts to the outside of the kerf. I can see it just by looking at the blades, but some may have to lay it on a circle template. I guess that they profile the blades first/round over the edges, then bend it. It is mechanically impossible to get enough pressure on the tip for the perfect arc. Anyone who bends stuff will bend several inches more than they need, then cut off the excess. I guess it is more difficult to ease the edges after the blade is bent. Fixing this would make it far easier to core. I would guess that the tip needs to be heated and then bent. If the laminated cutting material is already on, that could remove the cutting laminate. I have retipped my blades a couple of times and tweaked a little more bend in the tips on several. Silver solder works fine. I use tantung. Stellite also is an excellent material and may take a slightly finer edge than the tantung. I do not know if Kel is making his blades any more or not.

robo hippy
Click to expand...
Thanks very much
 
robo hippy said:
I have all 3 systems, and prefer the McNaughton. Mostly, I can set it up and take first core in less time than it takes me to set up the other two, probably the Oneway taking the longest. I do not use the Woodcut because I almost never have the tailstock on when coring. The Oneway has worst tip design ever! This is part of why most opt for the Core Pro tip from Mike Hunter. The McNaughton, everyone who tries it swears at it. Those who stick with it and learn to use it swear by it. The biggest problem with it is that the arcs of the blades go straight at the cutting tip rather than follow the perfect arc of the curve. This is why it ALWAYS drifts to the outside of the kerf. I can see it just by looking at the blades, but some may have to lay it on a circle template. I guess that they profile the blades first/round over the edges, then bend it. It is mechanically impossible to get enough pressure on the tip for the perfect arc. Anyone who bends stuff will bend several inches more than they need, then cut off the excess. I guess it is more difficult to ease the edges after the blade is bent. Fixing this would make it far easier to core. I would guess that the tip needs to be heated and then bent. If the laminated cutting material is already on, that could remove the cutting laminate. I have retipped my blades a couple of times and tweaked a little more bend in the tips on several. Silver solder works fine. I use tantung. Stellite also is an excellent material and may take a slightly finer edge than the tantung. I do not know if Kel is making his blades any more or not.

robo hippy
Click to expand...
Hi, thanks for your information. I have found a standard set, missing the straight cutter. Do you find that you use the straight cutter much?
Marc
 
robo hippy said:
I have all 3 systems, and prefer the McNaughton. Mostly, I can set it up and take first core in less time than it takes me to set up the other two, probably the Oneway taking the longest. I do not use the Woodcut because I almost never have the tailstock on when coring. The Oneway has worst tip design ever! This is part of why most opt for the Core Pro tip from Mike Hunter. The McNaughton, everyone who tries it swears at it. Those who stick with it and learn to use it swear by it. The biggest problem with it is that the arcs of the blades go straight at the cutting tip rather than follow the perfect arc of the curve. This is why it ALWAYS drifts to the outside of the kerf. I can see it just by looking at the blades, but some may have to lay it on a circle template. I guess that they profile the blades first/round over the edges, then bend it. It is mechanically impossible to get enough pressure on the tip for the perfect arc. Anyone who bends stuff will bend several inches more than they need, then cut off the excess. I guess it is more difficult to ease the edges after the blade is bent. Fixing this would make it far easier to core. I would guess that the tip needs to be heated and then bent. If the laminated cutting material is already on, that could remove the cutting laminate. I have retipped my blades a couple of times and tweaked a little more bend in the tips on several. Silver solder works fine. I use tantung. Stellite also is an excellent material and may take a slightly finer edge than the tantung. I do not know if Kel is making his blades any more or not.

robo hippy
Click to expand...
From a Woodcut Tools perspective yes we machine the knives longer than required, then press to form the radius and then cut off the length to remove any twist in the knife.
 
Dan Hewitt said:
Hi Mick yes a Credit card hone is a simple solution to sharpen an edge, but our recommendation is a slight sharpen of the front edge of the cutter (not top or side) on CBN which will raise a Hollow grind to produce nice shavings and support the cutter to track through the wood. In our experience a credit card hone can't raise the same quality Hollow Grind.
Click to expand...
By cbn do you mean a wheel or a “stone”? I don’t have any cbn wheels or stones, and do not plan to get either one. I have a wet sharpener, 8” low speed bench grinder with norton sg wheels, and diamond stones. What is your recommendation for sharpening?

The instruction manual makes no mention of cbn and shows what appears to be an alox wheel of some type with a lower grit.

The instructions state to create a 5 deg angle on top of the cutter for hard woods. Does this mean for wood classified as hardwood, or harder wood from a # on the Janka scale?

Instructions state to set cutter height at center. Should the cutter be at center, deflecting below center while cutting?

At what point should the cutter be replaced, in relation to the back end of the cutter (length of remaining cutter)?
 
I have never used the straight blade. It can be used for cutting plate or platter blanks, but my big 16 inch bandsaw is far more efficient for that. There used to be a couple of arm brace type straight coring tools for sale, but I don't see them any more. When I first started turning, I did pick up a McNaughton system. This was when the cutting tip was dog eared to the outside. The center spear point which is now made was a Mike Mahoney idea, and for sure, it was a step up. I do grind mine square across rather than the spear point. Main reason is that I prefer to make one straight plunge cut all the way in rather than "fishtailing" like Mike does. The spear point has maybe double the cutting surface that the square/straight across edge does. One interesting comment Mike Mahoney made when I saw him last was that he does 90% of his coring with the medium curve blade. Me too! For sharpening it, I generally go to the grinder and just brush the face. A few passes with a coarser, like 220 grit, diamond or CBN card raises a nice burr. All of the cutters are scrapers, and for roughing out things, scrapers need a burr. I have long thought about making my own coring blades. Just have too many other things to do. I still have a stash of tantung from my days of making the Big Ugly tool, which does work very well as a coring tip. The stellite is also a very good material and cuts longer than even M42 HSS or the V10 like Thompson tools. The problem is in finding it. Last time I looked, they wanted me to buy a block of it and process it myself. I don't have the machines to do it.

robo hippy
 
Doug Freeman said:
By cbn do you mean a wheel or a “stone”? I don’t have any cbn wheels or stones, and do not plan to get either one. I have a wet sharpener, 8” low speed bench grinder with norton sg wheels, and diamond stones. What is your recommendation for sharpening?

The instruction manual makes no mention of cbn and shows what appears to be an alox wheel of some type with a lower grit.

The instructions state to create a 5 deg angle on top of the cutter for hard woods. Does this mean for wood classified as hardwood, or harder wood from a # on the Janka scale?

Instructions state to set cutter height at center. Should the cutter be at center, deflecting below center while cutting?

At what point should the cutter be replaced, in relation to the back end of the cutter (length of remaining cutter)?
Click to expand...
Hi Doug, by CBN I mean a CBN wheel. Our recommendation is to only sharpen the front of the Stellite cutter and not the top or side of the cutter. Sharpen as often as you would for a bowl gouge.

In terms of the 5 degree cutter angle, yes that is for wood 'classified' as hardwood.

In terms of cutter position our recommendation is for the cutter to be at centre, but we are aware that many production bowl turners set the cutter at about 5mm above centre for hardwood and achieve good results. We do not recommend set the cutter below centre as this increases the probability of a catch.

We recommend replacing the Stellite cutter when you're unable to sharpen the front edge of the Stellite cutter and maintain at least a 5 to 15 degree angle.

Please let me know if can support you with further information.

Best regards
Dan Hewitt
 
With the McNaughton system, you have to start 1/4 to 1/2 inch above center. The reason is that there is a lot of flex built into the system, both in the blades and in the blade guide/holder. If you don't, by the time you get to the center, you can be 1/2 inch or more below the center point. With the Oneway and the Woodcut, this is not necessary. I do set them just a bit above center. Mostly out of habit, but scrapers on the outside of a bowl are slightly below center, and on the inside, they are slightly above center. This is because if and when you get a catch, the cutting edge will drop out of the cut rather than digging in deeper.

Dan, I do have one of the old 2 blade Woodcut coring systems. I think they used to have a slight concave surface on the top of the cutter. Been a while since I used it, but I think that concave surface seemed to eject the chips better than the flat surface.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
With the McNaughton system, you have to start 1/4 to 1/2 inch above center. The reason is that there is a lot of flex built into the system, both in the blades and in the blade guide/holder. If you don't, by the time you get to the center, you can be 1/2 inch or more below the center point. With the Oneway and the Woodcut, this is not necessary. I do set them just a bit above center. Mostly out of habit, but scrapers on the outside of a bowl are slightly below center, and on the inside, they are slightly above center. This is because if and when you get a catch, the cutting edge will drop out of the cut rather than digging in deeper.

Dan, I do have one of the old 2 blade Woodcut coring systems. I think they used to have a slight concave surface on the top of the cutter. Been a while since I used it, but I think that concave surface seemed to eject the chips better than the flat surface.

robo hippy
Click to expand...
HI Reed yes the concave on the top of the cutter you reference is the Hollow Grind our team sharpens for every Knife.
 
I bought a McNaughton system a long time ago. I didn't have much success with actually cutting cores with it. I found it tough to visualize exactly where it's going, and it will just go where it wants to go. It's easy to end up with a thicker or thinner bottom than intended.

While it was still very new, I had the catch of catches. It broke the blank and blade guide mount/pivot thing. They replaced it, but it scared me enough to not jump into coring much. I still use it as a giant captured parting tool sometimes.

I bought the Woodcut Max 4 and feel much more confident with that. It's very solid, well made, and easy to use. That would easily be my recommendation to anyone looking to get a coring system.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top