In my ongoing captured hollowing system search, I saw the Carter captive system. Searched and found some threads herein but interested in an update. Any thoughts? https://carterproducts.com/turning-tools/hollow-roller-lathe-boring
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Carter hollowing system update request
- Thread starter Alan Weinberg
- Start date
Hi Alan,
Glad you are doing your homework....You are going to get a lot of opinions about all of the captured hollowing system in this thread.
If you are interested you can call me, and I can discuss with you the pros/cons of all the systems out there...
Glad you are doing your homework....You are going to get a lot of opinions about all of the captured hollowing system in this thread.
If you are interested you can call me, and I can discuss with you the pros/cons of all the systems out there...
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The Carter system is a stand behind system with the support system between the turner and the work.
Some people like that- I don’t
Using a laser is much easier to see working at the tool rest. Once you get below the curve in the form you can still see the laser if you work at the tool rest.
I like being closer to the work. The Jamieson and Simon Hope are two I use. Both let me work at the tool rest.
I prefer this position.
Sinner is another system that lets you work at the tool rest.
Some people like that- I don’t
Using a laser is much easier to see working at the tool rest. Once you get below the curve in the form you can still see the laser if you work at the tool rest.
I like being closer to the work. The Jamieson and Simon Hope are two I use. Both let me work at the tool rest.
I prefer this position.
Sinner is another system that lets you work at the tool rest.
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My head spins—Jamieson, Bosch, Elbo, now Carter and Sinner. I’ve seen and played with both the Jamieson and Bosch systems and all have advantages and disadvantages. My biggest issue is space—I have virtually none. Even my lathe is outside. Wife thinks a garage is for cars—imagine that!
And I definitely want to attach the Bosch visualizer; of that I’m certain.
I appreciate Lyle’s offer to talk and may take him up on that. He certainly offers great service, that I’ve seen on this site.
And I definitely want to attach the Bosch visualizer; of that I’m certain.
I appreciate Lyle’s offer to talk and may take him up on that. He certainly offers great service, that I’ve seen on this site.
Dave Landers
Beta Tester
The way I figure it, there are basically 2 differences between all the systems.
First is how they attach to the lathe. Basically, this is just mechanics and support. But it does affect your experience if it takes too long to set up. Also can affect what you can do - especially when it comes to deep hollowing, which is helped by "more structure".
Tho other thing is how the system "wants" you to use it. Some let you stand beside the lathe. Others let you hollow from the end of the lathe. Some easily transition between hollowing with and without the system. With others your positioning and tool handling is different with and without it. All have advantages and disadvantages and basically it comes down to personal preference and turning style.
I can really only speak from observation, except for Trent Bosch's system which I use and like. Trent's sits in the banjo, so it's fairly easy to attach and remove. My stance and body motion is the same with the system as it is when hollowing "by hand" without it, so I haven't "un-learned" how to hollow by hand, and don't feel bound to the system. I start all my hollowing by hand, and add the support later in the process (to get deeper and/or to use the visualizer). Personal preference. However, as it basically assumes you're hollowing from the end of the lathe, you have to be able to remove or swing the tailstock, and you have to have room to access the end of the lathe. Works for me, but not for everyone.
First is how they attach to the lathe. Basically, this is just mechanics and support. But it does affect your experience if it takes too long to set up. Also can affect what you can do - especially when it comes to deep hollowing, which is helped by "more structure".
Tho other thing is how the system "wants" you to use it. Some let you stand beside the lathe. Others let you hollow from the end of the lathe. Some easily transition between hollowing with and without the system. With others your positioning and tool handling is different with and without it. All have advantages and disadvantages and basically it comes down to personal preference and turning style.
I can really only speak from observation, except for Trent Bosch's system which I use and like. Trent's sits in the banjo, so it's fairly easy to attach and remove. My stance and body motion is the same with the system as it is when hollowing "by hand" without it, so I haven't "un-learned" how to hollow by hand, and don't feel bound to the system. I start all my hollowing by hand, and add the support later in the process (to get deeper and/or to use the visualizer). Personal preference. However, as it basically assumes you're hollowing from the end of the lathe, you have to be able to remove or swing the tailstock, and you have to have room to access the end of the lathe. Works for me, but not for everyone.
Wait, you left out the Simple Hollowing System 😃.
On a more serious note, if you want the actual Bosch visualizer, they can help you adapt their visualizer to many other systems.
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- www.hockenberywoodturning.com
I have attached the Bosch visualizer to both the Jamison and the Hope.
Trent can probably set you up with connections to most systems.
Video is fantastic.
Thanks for the mentions, Al and Alan, glad to help.
I have the carter hollow roller. It was one of the few systems that I could find here in canada for a reasonable amount at the time. Unfortunately we dont have easy and affordable access to all the great stuff down in the states.
It's very well built, fit and finish are great but.....I wouldn't recommend it. I've never been overly excited to use it, i use it because its all i have right now. You're stuck with either the carter bars or having your own machined with the flat. I find it fiddly to adjust and sometimes just not smooth to move around. Dust or sap builds up on the rollers and it kinds of jams, then I have to clean the rollers and bar. I've made a few hollow forms with it, and will continue to, but I'm considering finding something else instead.
It may be supposed to be a stand behind hollowing system but I usually use a small oneway handle(12 inch i think)and stand by the tool rest when hollowing.
It's very well built, fit and finish are great but.....I wouldn't recommend it. I've never been overly excited to use it, i use it because its all i have right now. You're stuck with either the carter bars or having your own machined with the flat. I find it fiddly to adjust and sometimes just not smooth to move around. Dust or sap builds up on the rollers and it kinds of jams, then I have to clean the rollers and bar. I've made a few hollow forms with it, and will continue to, but I'm considering finding something else instead.
It may be supposed to be a stand behind hollowing system but I usually use a small oneway handle(12 inch i think)and stand by the tool rest when hollowing.
Very insightful. Thanks.
I have both the articulated and the captured systems. The articulated system is used 90% of the time. I can use the articulated on all of my lathes where the captured is used on the long bed lathes. I can use all the same tools and bars in both systems. Regardless of what you are using the systems main job is to keep the tool from turning (like a catch). I remain confirmed to using a laser as I tried the video route and do not like not looking at the piece that I am hollowing, yes video works but looking at a screen and not the piece does not work for me. Either system can take me up to about 20" deep using the Hunter boring bars and the hunter carbides with little to no vibration. If I had to buy a different articulated system today it would be a choice like the Simple Hollowing System.
You should call Lyle, and take lots of notes! Never hurts to get insight like he will provide.
If you turn outside, you likely have space around the lathe for most any system. As for storage, are all the walls covered already? What about the ceiling? I have Lyle’s system - the D handle with laser support, and the back rest, hang from the ceiling. The boring bars are in a drawer, laying on foam I cut out to hold them, but there are various ways to store the bars.
It is not an easy thing to sort through the various systems. Size/depth (hang off the tool rest) you want determines bar size. Think about how large you may want to go, and find systems that can do it. You may not “max out” when buying the system, but knowing bigger/longer bars are readily available is a must for the future.
That is how we do endoscopic and laparoscopic surgery so I have decades of experience working like that, hence my decision. Appreciate the detailed response.
Didn’t know about that one but looks like it requires their tools . . .
Not necessarily, the receiver takes any tool with a 1/2" tang. There is an optional 5/8" receiver, as well. I use tools from SHS, Easy Wood, Carter Products, Thompson, Hunter and I'm forgetting one more.
Have to take handle off of course? All my tools are handled.
I’ve used Carter Products tools for a while, and purchased the Hollow Roller/XL (a captured-D system) back when they still made it. It’s quite good, but also quite heavy to get setup to use. Not difficult, just heavy. But that mass also allows for hollowing very deeply: up to 34”. At my age, and where I am with my turning, I don’t want to lift those heavy pieces of wood onto the lathe any more. So, I’m probably going to sell it.
When adding a sphere turning jig to my toolset, I opted for the Carter Perfect Sphere which I really like. I added the Carter Perfect Hollower as it uses many of the same parts as the Perfect Sphere, and is available as an add-on kit for the Perfect Sphere (at about ½ the price of a complete Perfect Hollower kit). The Perfect Hollower is an articulated arm system and works quite well for smaller items (up to 8” deep).
I’m not a fan of using a laser for hollowing, preferring a camera system instead. When I purchased the Perfect Hollower system, the folks at Carter Products worked with me to provide the laser arm without the laser, saving some $.
As a final note, I like that Carter offers two types of cutters: a Hunter-style cup cutter, and a tear drop carbide scraper. The cup cutter is excellent for hogging out quickly, and the tear drop scraper helps smooth out the inside well.
When adding a sphere turning jig to my toolset, I opted for the Carter Perfect Sphere which I really like. I added the Carter Perfect Hollower as it uses many of the same parts as the Perfect Sphere, and is available as an add-on kit for the Perfect Sphere (at about ½ the price of a complete Perfect Hollower kit). The Perfect Hollower is an articulated arm system and works quite well for smaller items (up to 8” deep).
I’m not a fan of using a laser for hollowing, preferring a camera system instead. When I purchased the Perfect Hollower system, the folks at Carter Products worked with me to provide the laser arm without the laser, saving some $.
As a final note, I like that Carter offers two types of cutters: a Hunter-style cup cutter, and a tear drop carbide scraper. The cup cutter is excellent for hogging out quickly, and the tear drop scraper helps smooth out the inside well.
The Carter is overly complicated for what it does. All you need is a piece of plywood with a slot in it mounted to the bed, and a handle made of square hardwood. You slide the wood handle in the plywood and you can not rotate a square piece of wood in a slot in the plywood. Make a hollowing system for maybe $25. And these take up very little space.
Here is another cheap one!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-J07qJnp3BU
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCjnpSpxlJc
Here is another cheap one!
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