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Can't wait to try ot out

odie said:
From what I can see, and if I'm getting this right.......the hook and ring tools allow basically the same type of cut that a push cut does, but the user is actually pulling the tool through the cut......?
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The cut is similar to the push cut from the gouge with a big difference.
The hook took can make a bevel riding cut from bottom inside center to the rim. Impossible with a gouge since the handle would have to be through the bottom of the bowl.

You can think of the hook tool as gouge that is 1/4 to a 1/2" inch long with the handle perpendicular to the flute rather than in line with flute as it is in a gouge.

You make a great observation. Gouge cuts are defined by how the cutting edge moves through the cut not by how the tool is moved. I often move the tool away from me when making a pull cut. As long as the nose of the gouge trailers the cut it is a pull cut.

Hook tools have a more acute bevel angle than bowl gouges.

The hook tool is primarily for end grain hollowing.
Bowl gouge is primarily for face grain turning.
 
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Definitely pulling! A push would probably give you the mother of all catches. I've experimented some with hook tools -- they can produce remarkably smooth cut surfaces.
 
odie said:
From what I can see, and if I'm getting this right.......the hook and ring tools allow basically the same type of cut that a push cut does, but the user is actually pulling the tool through the cut......?
Click to expand...

That is basically correct although i think it could be equally compared to any bevel riding cut. The "catch" is that they are primarily used on the interior of end-grain hollowforms especially those with smaller openings where it would not be feasible to use a gouge. From a practical perspective the wood should be green because the aggressive cutting nature of the tool would dull the edge rather quickly on dry wood. I have a Sorby ring tool that I store along with my one remaining hook tool and a few other seldom used tools that I thought that I had to have because of their novelty.
 
I have the Termite from Oneway, it is certainly not my most used tool, but it does get used on occasion, endgrain wood only.
When I just got it I tried to use it on side grain wood, it left a very rough surface, sa wasn’t too pleased with that.
Met the Oneway people, father and son still at that time at the Woodstock Ontario wood show, and was discussing the Termite’s performance with,(forget his name) de son, and he used it on a side grain platter right there with a similar outcome as I had had, and he said to me, this is not the right tool for turning this way oriented wood, it is meant for turning endgrain wood, so learned that this time it wasn’t me, but I could blame the tool for once 😀 😀

I also made a couple of small hook tools, they did work, but making and then the sharpening ever so often, they didn’t turn me on, they are still sitting somewhere gathering dust, using the Termite is much easier for me 😉
 
Martel uses a handle that is at least 24 maybe 30" long and a 5/8" or 3/4" shaft. Bought one almost ten years ago and never have used. Made the holder etc. But just never get there. Hosaluk gets his from a fellow in Florida or at least a couple of years ago was.
 
Leo Van Der Loo said:
Met the Oneway people, father and son still at that time at the Woodstock Ontario wood show, and was discussing the Termite’s performance with,(forget his name
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Hey Leo. Was Kevin. I remember seeing them at Woodstock back then. They were looking hard for orders back then and except for Woodturning Symposia, never come to shows now.
 
I have used the termite quite a bit. Have used the hook tool a little bit.
Both do a good job on end grain hollowing.

Both can start the cut in the bottom center without a pilot hole.
If you are just starting out with either tool it will be easier to use apilot hole for the first few.

Al
 
Leo Van Der Loo said:
Met the Oneway people, father and son still at that time at the Woodstock Ontario wood show, and was discussing the Termite’s performance with,(forget his name
Click to expand...

Hey Leo. Was Kevin. I remeber seeing them at Woodstock back then.
Vern Crandell said:
Mike Hosaluk, a very respected Canadian turner, makes hook tools. He described it as the very end of a bowl gouge cut off and welded to the end of a bar. If you look at the hook tool and compare it to a bowl gouge (looking down the flute), you will see the similarity. Oneway's Termite is also similar but a complete ring. In use, start with the hole horizontal and then slowly rotate the tool clockwise until the bottom is at about the seven o'clock position. The further you rotate it, the more aggressive it becomes and the more likely you are to have a catch. As mentioned, they are designed for end grain hollowing such as goblets, boxes, etc. Properly used, they leave a very clean surface.
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Raul McCai said:
Hook tool. It's HSS I think M2. Little thang shore cost me plenty
20170113_151322-XL.jpg

20170113_151431-XL.jpg
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Don't know how I ended up replying to two in one, but this looks like the Wolok Hook tool that Hosaluk sells.
 
Emiliano Achaval said:
I have seen renewed interest in hook tools ... I'm happy with my Lyle Jamieson Hollowing system with the carbide tip... I'll stick to that for now...
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I would not be interested in hook or ring tools either, Emiliano.

As others have mentioned, it's best suited for end grain work, where the grain orientation is best suited for a pull cut within the interior. I am only interested in side grain bowls. The reason for my conclusion on this, is of course, the grain orientation. My drawing shows one of my typical side grain bowls with inward slanting walls. It clearly shows why a pull cut on the interior is best from the largest diameter to the smallest diameter.
Wood orientation for best cut with arrow .jpg
From the interior largest diameter, to the bottom, the grain direction is incorrect for using a ring/hook tool, using a pull cut. The only exception to this (for my purposes) might be to use the hook/ring tools in a pull cut from the largest diameter of the interior, to the rim. Here, a pull cut could be used in conjunction with the best grain orientation. This small area is the most difficult section to get a good cut on bowls with inward slanting walls. At this point, I am not convinced this small spot is better served by ring/hook tools, than gouges and shear scrapers are.....although, I have admittedly never had, or used a ring/hook tool before. Over the years, I've developed my own technique for doing this, using gouges and scrapers.....and, I'm satisfied with my progress and observations.
746-1 Ash.JPG
ko
 
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You are correct Odie. I actually tried to make a sort of backward bowl gouge one time to see how it worked. It was too far off center and was really grabby. The Hook tool works much better. I have made them with varying angles on the cutting edge. The sharper ones cut better. You can also angle the tool down by twisting the handle so that you are getting more of a shearing cut. I know you use that on the outside of your bowls. The ring tool is basically the same. Less likely to break in a catch but the rings clog up with shaving easily if you take too big of a cut.
 
john lucas said:
You are correct Odie. I actually tried to make a sort of backward bowl gouge one time to see how it worked. It was too far off center and was really grabby. The Hook tool works much better. I have made them with varying angles on the cutting edge. The sharper ones cut better. You can also angle the tool down by twisting the handle so that you are getting more of a shearing cut. I know you use that on the outside of your bowls. The ring tool is basically the same. Less likely to break in a catch but the rings clog up with shaving easily if you take too big of a cut.
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That's my complaint about the ring tool ... it clogs up too easily. I also have broken a couple hook tools ... that's always a good way to get the old ticker going if you're feeling tired and sluggish and need something to wake you up.

Odie's diagram points out a problem even when using the hook tool on end grain pieces. If you have a hollowform that curves in to a small opening, you can't do a pull cut from the largest diameter to the opening and I don't even want to think about somehow doing a push cut in the other direction. 😱
 
Bill Boehme said:
If you have a hollowform that curves in to a small opening, you can't do a pull cut from the largest diameter to the opening and I don't even want to think about somehow doing a push cut in the other direction. 😱
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That is where I use the spindle gouge - Raffan upsdide down cut. The gouge pivots on the tool rest and the cutting edge rides the bevel in a sort of pull cut against the top of the far wall.
A fun cut to learn. Works well for me especially on small pieces like scoops where the open is smaller that the base. Length of the spindle gouge limits openings to about 6" diameter.
Great for boxes etc.

The hook tool could make some of the facegrain bowls by running the lathe in reverse..
The ring tool & hunter tools are easier since they can cut from rim to bottom center.
But my preference would be a bowl gouge...
 
Mike Brazeau said:
Thanks Owen.
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Mike......I've been going over your "homemade tools, jigs and accessories" album on your picturetrail account. Really enjoy seeing other creative homemade improvements, as yours. Would you mind telling us a little about your homemade bowl lathe? The photo there is a little small.......got other photos? Thanks........ko
 
odie said:
Mike......I've been going over your "homemade tools, jigs and accessories" album on your picturetrail account. Really enjoy seeing other creative homemade improvements, as yours. Would you mind telling us a little about your homemade bowl lathe? The photo there is a little small.......got other photos? Thanks........ko
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I would also like a closer look at the bowl lathe, hopefully time permitting I would like to build a stand alone
bowl lathe bolted to the floor able to turn large diameter blanks some day.
Has anyone ever built a floor mounted lathe where the drive spindle is mounted vertical to the floor?
Imagine a large diameter potters wheel.
 
Mike Johnson said:
Time to test how smart Bill really is, why would I want a floor mounted lathe with a vertical spindle?
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I kind of wondered about that myself.......so, why would you want a vertical spindle?
 
I've used a hook tool on box bottoms many times and never had a catch. I'm worried you guys have jinxed me and the the next box is going to blow up. 😕
 
odie said:
Mike......I've been going over your "homemade tools, jigs and accessories" album on your picturetrail account. Really enjoy seeing other creative homemade improvements, as yours. Would you mind telling us a little about your homemade bowl lathe? The photo there is a little small.......got other photos? Thanks........ko
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I do have a series of photos I took when I was selling it in 2004 and a description. The fellow that bought it never used it due to some medical problems and another guild member bought it recently from his estate. I will email it to you. When I bought it, it was at the beginning of what I call my Born Again phase of turning and wanted capacity and the price was right. I loved the ability to face the interior of a bowl straight on and the 17" outboard extension on my Oneway 2436 does that nicely. Lyle Jamieson pointed out to me at an all day workshop in those days, the weakness of not having a tailstock and as I got to be more of a serious bowl turner had to agree with him. I was tempted to add a bed extension to it and purchase a Oneway tailstock, but moving to another house interrupted the process and I ended up buying the whole lathe.
 
Just spent an hour looking up the old photos from almost 15 years ago and will post tomorrow. Have to take my grandson to a hockey game now. Will start a new thread as this is going way off topic of the original thread.
 
What a truly fascinating video! It's so interesting to see how it was done nearly 100 years ago. Things have certainly changed but not all that much.
 
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