new to turning. I am slowly coming across sources for wood. I recently cut some rounds off some birch logs a neighbor had in his log stacks by his mill. I cut the rounds 2"-3" longer than the diameter of the logs. These ones I cut out the pith centers, anchor sealed the ends and shelved them in a pole barn. Then I was gifted two fresh cut oak tree trunks. Not sure if it is white or black oak? I left most of those in rounds and only split a couple with all ends anchor sealed and also shelved in a pole barn. Is it better to save wood in the round and not split them until closer to when you will be turning them? Is there a rough time frame to let wood logs dry before turning? When rough turning green wood is asking the best way to let pieces dry before finish turning like a ford or chevy question? Or is there actually a better way?
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Best ways to save wood
- Thread starter Jim Mills
- Start date
If you're planning on turning bowls or hollow forms it's much better to turn them green, either once turned or rough out(twice turned), this by far reduces the cracking. Your oak logs might not survive too long without removing the pith.
If I know I'm going to be cutting and turning the logs in the next week then I will usually leave them as a log and process what I'm going to do that day/weekend. If I know it's going to take a few weeks or months to get through it the I will process the logs into oversized blanks, seal the ends, stack on pallets and cover with a tarp.
You're local climate and shop conditions will dictate some of how you treat drying bowls and blanks, what works for me here in alberta might not work for you.
I cut and dry lots of spindle blanks between say 1 and 3.5 inches, sometimes 4-5 inch, always sealing the end. I have successfully left some bowl blanks solid with no cracking over a few years but I think it's a matter of luck for that, and still treat them as green wood.
You'll find a ton of information on turning and drying green wood with the search function.
If I know I'm going to be cutting and turning the logs in the next week then I will usually leave them as a log and process what I'm going to do that day/weekend. If I know it's going to take a few weeks or months to get through it the I will process the logs into oversized blanks, seal the ends, stack on pallets and cover with a tarp.
You're local climate and shop conditions will dictate some of how you treat drying bowls and blanks, what works for me here in alberta might not work for you.
I cut and dry lots of spindle blanks between say 1 and 3.5 inches, sometimes 4-5 inch, always sealing the end. I have successfully left some bowl blanks solid with no cracking over a few years but I think it's a matter of luck for that, and still treat them as green wood.
You'll find a ton of information on turning and drying green wood with the search function.
Yes, success in saving green wood depends on some factors such as the species and the temperature/humidity - given enough time rounds can turn into firewood even if sealed on the ends. Some species are far worse than others. It's important to keep the wood from drying out too fast or end checks/cracks can form quickly.
There are several ways to have wood in good condition when you're ready to turn. The other John Jordan, the late, great, famous one, said he got the whole log even if he had to pay to get it delivered. Never sealed the ends. Set the log up off the ground in the shade, (but not covered tight with a tarp). When he was ready to turn he would cut about 6" off the end to remove the inevitable checks, cut a blank, and go in and turn it immediately.
Another way is to not accumulate more green wood than you can turn in a week or so. There's always more, at least around here.
With some species, cutting or splitting the log section down the middle can help minimize cracking by minimizing some of the stress from shrinking while drying. However the halves may still develop checks over time. It may help minimize the largest cracks/splits by cutting away the pith when cutting it in two. Some people cut away at least an inch of the pith for a large diameter log. The effectiveness of this, again, depends on the environment, the species, and to some extent, the specific tree. Dogwood is especially prone to split - I've seen a 8" dia piece split and open up a wide crack from the bark to the pith.
Another way, not often used, is called "ponding": submerge the wood in water. If using a container like a 55-gal drum, change the water before it gets nasty. (a possible problem in the summer).
Another way, also not often used, is to freeze (but who has that big of freezer?!) I tried an experiment once and froze a block of green wood and it was still in good shape when thawed out years later.
The best way is probably to rough turn it ASAP, seal, dry, then finish turn later.
I rarely turn green wood so I use my bandsaw to cut the log section into square, rectangular, or round bowl blanks as soon as possible after the tree is down, seal well, and dry. However, a large blank may take years to dry. I track the dryness by weighing every few months.
If I have some short rounds I can't get to immediately, I do this: seal one end and set it on a piece of plywood in the shade. Put a second round on top of it which keeps it from drying out so fast. I may stack several, then top them with a piece of board or a short log section I'll throw away. I have some cherry and persimmon stacked like this outside right now. This method works better with the weather is cool and/or rainy. When hot, it can promote spalting which is not necessarily bad. Again, it may depend on the species. I've even hosed some down every day or so when I couldn't process it right away.
JKJ
I leave logs whole, and as long as I can, and seal the ends. I store them off the ground and out of the sun. I cut off a section at a time and cut into blanks, usually put the blanks in a trash bag and turn them in a week or so. Some get cut into spindle blanks, ends sealed, and stickered to dry.
The best time to turn wood is when the tree is 1st felled, but a log off the ground and shielded from the weather will keep for a couple years or more.
I do both 1 turn (final thickness) and 2 turn (leave wall thickness ~10% of dia).
The best time to turn wood is when the tree is 1st felled, but a log off the ground and shielded from the weather will keep for a couple years or more.
I do both 1 turn (final thickness) and 2 turn (leave wall thickness ~10% of dia).
As carpenter we would use a moisture meter in homes before we would bring in hard wood flooring or trim & millwork to acclimate before installations. If you are weighing bowl blanks or wood pieces to check moisture levels, how do you figure when it has lost enough moisture weight to turn? At what point is would not considered green anymore? I'm feeling like an apprentice again with all these questions.
I haven't weighed full blanks, but I weigh green-turned pieces (once or twice-turned). It's "dry" (stabilized is a better term) when the piece stops losing weight, or even gains a little. That's probably around 10% MC, but there are too many variables to make a blanket statement. I don't use my moisture meter much anymore. Weighing is the only true way to determine stability.
Not to compare myself to John Jordan (either one of you), but this is what I do as well. I have a big log pile and nowhere near enough time or conviction to turn them into blanks or rough-turnings.
Kenr is correct, weight is the true measure of stability, but I don't even weigh much anymore. Over the last 8 years I've built up enough of a supply, even with the limited good wood I get here in Alberta, that I'm returning bowls and using spindle blanks that have been seasoning 3 to 5 years.
Jim,
I also use a moisture meter for a rough approximation of the dryness in the shop and for boards acclimating for indoor construction/remodeling. But due to the internal moisture gradient on a thick blank, neither a pin nor pinless meter may be accurate. And the pinless meter I use needs a flat surface to work.
There are two good ways I know to get an accurate moisture content reading. One, the "oven dry" method is not very useful for woodturning since it is destructive: cut a small piece out of the center of one piece of similarly sized pieces of wood, weigh carefully with an accurate gram scale, then heat at the recommended temperature until absolutely dry (drier than EMC!) and calculate the absolute moisture content to judge if the wood is dry enough. (I use a thermocouple to monitor the temperature. I did this on one piece of a big batch of ebony blanks with the assumption that if one is dry, they all are.) I read that this method is sometimes used by kiln operators.
The other method is far easier and non destructive. I process a lot of I simply weigh a typical blank or two from a batch of wet wood (it's impractical to weigh them all).
- I record the weight and date, then periodically weigh again. (maybe every few months or more - with too much turning wood I can afford to be patient!) When the weight quits dropping, the wood is dry. If that piece is dry, I assume other similar blanks f the same species and the same size (or smaller) will be dry.
- To keep up with the weight I write the weight (in grams) and the date on a piece of green tape. I exclusively use the Scotch 2060 (Rough Surface Extra Strength Painter's Tape). This is NOT the green painters tape you get a the paint store or big box store. This stuff is made to stick to concrete blocks and such - it will stick to almost anything, even waxed or wet blanks. I buy it from Amazon.
- As the wood dries, the weight will drop. When the weight quits dropping, the wood is as dry as it's going to get. Drying may take from weeks to years depending on sizes, shapes, and species. Some dense exotic woods can take a long time. Note the weight on the block of Olive below is still dropping after two years. (It's sealed with wax on all six sides - the guy I bought it from dips the blanks in hot paraffin. I think it's about 8x8x4".) Some similar domestic species the same size and sealed only on the end grain might be dry in two years.) I have a few large block, maybe 8x8x14" which took a lot longer.
- Even in my climate controlled shop the humidity will change a little with the seasons, so the "final" weight can actually go up and down a little. When I see that, I mark the piece dry.
My shop is climate controlled and I dry all the wood in my shop so I don't worry about seasonal changes. The final piece is sealed and if going to a person who will keep it indoors (almost always!) there isn't a problem with minor seasonal changes. This, of course, is a different issue with wood flooring!
BTW, I've tried several scales and this is my favorite - it will handle more weight than some kitchen scales:
I'm certainly no expert, but I have at least 15 years of experience in cutting log sections into turning blanks for drying. If you haven't seen it and might be interested, I made a video about processing wet wood on the bandsaw. It's long so I didn't have enough time to talk as much about drying as I'd hoped. I made this for a club demo when we were meeting by zoom due to the covid pandemic.
JKJ
Much depends on the local weather. I can leave logs whole in the winter, but in summer, they need to be off the ground, covered, and in the shade. Oak in particular is very prone to shattering no matter what you do to it. One good end grain sealer is old wood glue, Elmers or titebond. The birch may last, it may not. Cutting it down the pith helps. Generally, I will try to match any cracks that are already in the wood when ripping down the center. This is almost every single time.
robo hippy
robo hippy
Because I heat our home with wood, I'm always looking for wood. When possible, I get whole tree trunks and cut off what I need for turning. It's really nice to have a small farm tractor with loader forks and a 20' flatbed trailer, both for hauling logs and the tractor that can move them.
Depending on species, I've had whole logs sit in my yard for many years, and some even gets better with age. This year I've been burning up some big walnut and spalted maple logs that have been around a bit too long. Sad to see it go, but I need room for when new stuff becomes available.
Thanks John, lots of good information here. I will be watching your videoJim,
I also use a moisture meter for a rough approximation of the dryness in the shop and for boards acclimating for indoor construction/remodeling. But due to the internal moisture gradient on a thick blank, neither a pin nor pinless meter may be accurate. And the pinless meter I use needs a flat surface to work.
There are two good ways I know to get an accurate moisture content reading. One, the "oven dry" method is not very useful for woodturning since it is destructive: cut a small piece out of the center of one piece of similarly sized pieces of wood, weigh carefully with an accurate gram scale, then heat at the recommended temperature until absolutely dry (drier than EMC!) and calculate the absolute moisture content to judge if the wood is dry enough. (I use a thermocouple to monitor the temperature. I did this on one piece of a big batch of ebony blanks with the assumption that if one is dry, they all are.) I read that this method is sometimes used by kiln operators.
View attachment 71626
The other method is far easier and non destructive. I process a lot of I simply weigh a typical blank or two from a batch of wet wood (it's impractical to weigh them all).
Note also, when I cut green wood into blanks for drying, I immediately seal the ends and the sides (in certain cases) with thickened Anchor Seal. I then let the blanks dry for a week or so. If I see any cracks develop, I cut them away on the bandsaw and reseal, then wait a bit more. I'd rather have smaller crack-free blanks!
- I record the weight and date, then periodically weigh again. (maybe every few months or more - with too much turning wood I can afford to be patient!) When the weight quits dropping, the wood is dry. If that piece is dry, I assume other similar blanks f the same species and the same size (or smaller) will be dry.
- To keep up with the weight I write the weight (in grams) and the date on a piece of green tape. I exclusively use the Scotch 2060 (Rough Surface Extra Strength Painter's Tape). This is NOT the green painters tape you get a the paint store or big box store. This stuff is made to stick to concrete blocks and such - it will stick to almost anything, even waxed or wet blanks. I buy it from Amazon.
- As the wood dries, the weight will drop. When the weight quits dropping, the wood is as dry as it's going to get. Drying may take from weeks to years depending on sizes, shapes, and species. Some dense exotic woods can take a long time. Note the weight on the block of Olive below is still dropping after two years. (It's sealed with wax on all six sides - the guy I bought it from dips the blanks in hot paraffin. I think it's about 8x8x4".) Some similar domestic species the same size and sealed only on the end grain might be dry in two years.) I have a few large block, maybe 8x8x14" which took a lot longer.
- Even in my climate controlled shop the humidity will change a little with the seasons, so the "final" weight can actually go up and down a little. When I see that, I mark the piece dry.
My shop is climate controlled and I dry all the wood in my shop so I don't worry about seasonal changes. The final piece is sealed and if going to a person who will keep it indoors (almost always!) there isn't a problem with minor seasonal changes. This, of course, is a different issue with wood flooring!
BTW, I've tried several scales and this is my favorite - it will handle more weight than some kitchen scales:
View attachment 71625 View attachment 71627
I'm certainly no expert, but I have at least 15 years of experience in cutting log sections into turning blanks for drying. If you haven't seen it and might be interested, I made a video about processing wet wood on the bandsaw. It's long so I didn't have enough time to talk as much about drying as I'd hoped. I made this for a club demo when we were meeting by zoom due to the covid pandemic.
JKJ