Bandsaw woes

[Mike Novak]

I have an early 80s delta 14” bandsaw. It has a 1/2 hp motor, and the previous owner upgraded with a 6” riser, spring and tension release from Carter, and urethane tires. It has the original miter gage and fence

I have gone thru all of the tune up advice I can find. Wheels coplaner, blade riding center of both wheels. table adjusted to blade so it’s square front to back and left to right. Fence and cut line Parallel to miter slot. I’m using the Timberwolf wet wood 3/8” blade, and it’s sharp.

I can cut 12” thick green red oak in both crosscut and ripping with no problem, no drifting. Sometimes it will give a slight vibration like the blade dig in too much. I can cut down the middle or wafer thin slices perfectly.

Problem is when I am trying to cut with grain at an angle to the blade, the blade tries to wander left or right and binds up. Mostly trying to cut round blanks, when lopping off the corners.

Any ideas on what’s causing this?

I suspect a motor upgrade might help with the vibration I get, but I’m stumped on the blade wander when cutting corners off blanks.

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

Did you check blade tension? Also did you double check the wheels? A lack of a distinct top to the crown on the wheels can cause the blade to wander.

 

[Bernie Kopfer]

If the tension and guide clearance is adequate, I would put on another blade. preferably like the one that is on there now. Sometime blades do or ornery things just because they can.

 

[Mike Novak]

What is best way to check tension. I just dialed it to the line marked 3/8

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

Raise the guard six inches above the table and push on the blade. It should not deflect more than a 1/4 of an inch.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

This may answer your question . Alex Snodgrass knows his stuff
Band Saw Clinic

 

[Kirk Amidon]

Given your description of cutting through 12" stock, it is not your motor. When you are quartering on a band saw, there is a tendency for the blade to want to follow the grain a bit, and possibly wandering as a result. It also could be technique.

Asking that saw to cut 12" cuts is really pushing it's capacities. I also use the timberwolf blades and unless it is not sharp, or you got a defective one, the blade is likely not the culprit either.

I agree with Gerald on the Snodgrass video, it covers all of the possible set up issues, but as described, it sounds like your saw is well set up.

 

[hockenbery]

Cutting rounds from 1/2 logs takes practice. As @Kirk Amidon said the blade wants to follow the grain.
Liam O’Neil taught me a long time ago to not fight the bandsaw when it has decided to follow the grain - turn with it and cut straigh out. Then you restart the cut as a cross cut.

Also Turinng the blank about an imaginary center in line with the front of the teeth helps a lot.
After a while you can feel when you have to follow the saw. Other times you can do the full round with no problem.
I cut my rounds using hardboard templates held in place with a scratch awl.

 

[robo hippy]

I would upgrade to a 1 hp motor, as a 1/2 hp motor just isn't strong enough to do much cutting above 6 inches of height. I would get a better blade, specifically the Lennox diemaster bimetal blades. They cut longer and straighter than any other blades out there. As for why it is going sideways, some times it is the wood. It can also be blade tension. Even though you have the tensioner set to 3/8 inch blade, those things are notoriously out of whack. My blade maker told me to set mine far higher than what the scale says. A 3/8 inch blade will want to deflect more than a 1/2 inch blade. Also, they have different thicknesses of blades, and for resawing, the thicker the better.

robo hippy

 

[Mike Novak]

I really appreciate all the ideas. I have already gone thru everything in the synod grass video before posting. There as also another video, can’t remember by who, that recommended adjusting the table one everything else is done.

I think my next try is more blade tension. I have tried different blades. I’m a little afraid of putting too much tension and snapping it

Kirk, you are correct, the blade tries to follow the grain, even making a straight cut at 45deg. what is it about that saw that’s pushing it for 12”? Is it just how much tension it can supply? Or is it the table flexing/moving in relation to the lower wheel? I don’t think thicker puts any more stress on the upper frame or wheel.

Robo, Im on the lookout for a used 1hp motor. My fallback will be the 1hp tefc from harbor freight.

 

[Kirk Amidon]

I think my next try is more blade tension. I have tried different blades. I’m a little afraid of putting too much tension and snapping it

Kirk, you are correct, the blade tries to follow the grain, even making a straight cut at 45deg. what is it about that saw that’s pushing it for 12”? Is it just how much tension it can supply? Or is it the table flexing/moving in relation to the lower wheel? I don’t think thicker puts any more stress on the upper frame or wheel.

I have a 1960's Rockwell 14" band saw as well. I also have an older Walker Turner 16" saw. The Delta/Rockwell saw can technically cut the 12" depth, but has to be well set up, with a good blade, and with good technique. The WT will cut circles around the Delta. FWIW - the WT only has a half horse as well.

I neglected to mention the tension in my earlier reply. Definitely add more tension than the delta indicator shows, that is a guide, and I don't believe it to be accurate, at least it is not on my saw. There is not enough rigidity in the Delta frame to tighten properly a blade much larger than 1/2". That same issue comes up when a riser block is added. Can't say I've ever heard of a table flexing on these saws - and don't understand what force would cause it, other than putting a huge slab on it. Cutting thicker absolutely puts more strain on everything as there is a ton more resistance and distance between the guides. This is why more tension is needed - you have less support at 12" between guides than you do at 6" which is what the frame and saw is designed to do. But start by increasing tension to the next mark - half inch. Test. if that works better great, otherwise move up to the 3/4" mark.

I'd offer an analogy - the older rockwell/delta lathes are primarily spindle lathes, but can turn bowls. They are not optimized for bowls, and if one wants to primarily turn bowls, they would be better off with a lathe designed to do so. For occasionally cutting such thick stock it works fine, but if you are going to be cutting it regularly look into something with more capacity by design a 16 or 20" saw does not have much larger of a footprint than a 14, but has a lot more capacity.



Don't get me wrong, I love that 14" saw - but it has limitations. Finding a used larger saw is possible - think about this route before simply adding more horsepower to that saw.

 

[Doug Freeman]

What you describe is not a problem, but a characteristic, of cutting rounds with a bandsaw. Too much feed rate/operator pressure will exacerbate the behavior. Go slower.

Bigger motor is a waste if you can cut 12” resaw with what you have.

You claim you have done the Snodgrass setup, but you say the blade is centered - which is incorrect. The gullets are centered not the blade.

Snodgrass describes how to set tension - follow it, it works, and does not overload frames or blades, certainly not 3/8”. I run 3/8” on my little 10”.

Get the setup completely right, then work on technique, before throwing $ at it.

 

[Mike Novak]

I had a chance to try some things today. Looks like the biggest culprit was the tension on the bandsaw blade. When set at the 3/4” line it cuts nice circles. It also runs much quieter and smoother at the higher tension. Only time it messed up was when I tried to feed too fast.

If it works so good at 1/2hp, makes me wonder why so many people say you need 1hp minimum. Maybe it’s just wet vs dry wood?

Thanks to everyone who helped!

 

[Bill Boehme]

I agree with Doug Freeman. A bigger motor isn‘t the answer to the problems that you described. The blade chatter is either a dull blade, too aggressive hook angle, or too much feed pressure. The blade wandering could be user technique, too much feed pressure, or too much or too little blade tension. When you put the riser on the saw, it unfortunately means more flex in the frame that can lead to poorer resaw performance unless you spend a lot of additional time setting up the cut by adjusting blade tension and blade guides. Also, always lower the upper blade guide so that it just barely clears the workpiece. Whenever you move the upper guide be sure to readjust the guide. I set blade tension by ear. It’s sort of like tuning a stringed musical instrument. Starting with the tension low and the guides backed off, I plunk the band like a guitar string and increase the tension until the sound goes from a dull thud to a clear note and then increase the tension another half turn.

 

[robo hippy]

My reasoning for a 1 hp motor minimum for cutting 12 inches high is that the bandsaw was designed for cutting 6 inches high. With a freshly sharpened blade, you can cut 12 inches high with minimal effort. However if you want to do a lot of cutting at 12 inches high, you can wear out your motor. A 1 hp motor won't wear out cutting a lot of 12 inch high material. True, that will not fix the blade problems. My first lathe was an Atlas, with 4 speed pulleys and with a 1/2 hp motor. It would cut 6 inch bowls all day long. Put on a 10 or so inch bowl blank and it struggled. With a 1 hp motor, no problems.

robo hippy

 

[Tom De Winter]

Alex also says that the wheels should not be coplanar.
I always had trouble with the cut wandering when I centered the blade on the wheels. That was fixed by centering the gullet as per Alex.

 

[Mike Novak]

Update for anyone else with a delta 14”. It has been cutting true with increased tension, but the motor would overheat if I try to do more than one log at a time, so I replaced it with a 2 hp from harbor freight. Now it’s a beast. No more overheating or slowing if I push too hard.

It was not a trouble free swap, but for $130 on sale I would do it again. The first motor had a ground fault, and was cheerfully replaced. The 2 hp is not a perfect drop in replacement. I had to get a pulley for the larger shaft and drill 2 mounting holes. The junction box on the motor interferes a little with the lower door, but still opens enough for blade changes and vacuuming.

The 1 hp would have been a drop in, but I wanted to be sure I went big enough.

 

[Greg Carles]

The 1 hp would have been a drop in, but I wanted to be sure I went big enough.

I have a grizzly 14" aniversary edition with the 1 Hp motor, like others I installed the accessory 6" riser block. I have yet to stall the 1Hp motor and I cut some pretty thick walnut and sycamore bowl blanks. The blade wandering due to tension is something I am not familiar with, I set mine to the 3/8 indicator on the back and it almost seems like the blade is about to snap in half, so I back it off a little.

I once put a 3/4 inch ( max for the saw) 3 tooth resaw blade on it and was not impressed at all, (won't mention the name brand). I actually use 1/4 to 3/8 inch blades most of the time and they cut incredibaly well. My experience has been with a good sharp blade, it will cut hard wood with little effort.

As far as co-planer, I could not achieve this with the saw I have with out shimming the bottome wheel out a few thou. I think you can purchase the shims needed to achieve this. The saw cuts good and after contacting tech support I did not bother with the saw bottom wheel out of co-palner issue Just my .02

 

[Bill Boehme]

I have a grizzly 14" aniversary edition with the 1 Hp motor, like others I installed the accessory 6" riser block. I have yet to stall the 1Hp motor and I cut some pretty thick walnut and sycamore bowl blanks. The blade wandering due to tension is something I am not familiar with, I set mine to the 3/8 indicator on the back and it almost seems like the blade is about to snap in half, so I back it off a little.

I once put a 3/4 inch ( max for the saw) 3 tooth resaw blade on it and was not impressed at all, (won't mention the name brand). I actually use 1/4 to 3/8 inch blades most of the time and they cut incredibaly well. My experience has been with a good sharp blade, it will cut hard wood with little effort.

As far as co-planer, I could not achieve this with the saw I have with out shimming the bottome wheel out a few thou. I think you can purchase the shims needed to achieve this. The saw cuts good and after contacting tech support I did not bother with the saw bottom wheel out of co-palner issue Just my .02

I rarely use a band wider than ½ inch on my big MiniMax bandsaw with 3+ HP motor. Also, ½ inch is the widest band that I would consider putting on my 14 inch Delta knock-off bandsaw. The built-in tension gauges on almost all bandsaws are completely worthless in my opinion. You can buy band tension gauges that actually measure the tension, but they are rather expensive. I use the tuning by ear method which results in a much lower tension and that has worked very well for me.

 

[Vincent Vogel]

I have a 14" Rikon bandsaw and it didn't want to cut straight when I first got it. I watched the Snodgrass video and did everything he said to do except the band was centered on the wheel and still wouldn't cut straight. I centered the gullets on the wheel and adjusted the tension as he directed and haven't had any problems since. Had to replace a dull blade once and clean the band and wheels a couple times due to sap from cutting green blanks, these two things will mess up a cut also.

 

[Tom De Winter]

I thought my Delta clone was a POS until I learned and employed the Snodgrass methods. Now it cuts perfectly.

I think it was Alex that said the wheels are not supposed to be coplanar. Without some opposing tension the blade will wander.

I haven’t found tension to be very critical.