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Bandsaw motor upgrade: Worth the effort or a few more steps down the road to madness?

Ric Williams

Ric Williams

Joined
May 31, 2019
Messages
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Location
Highland, MI
I've got a Rikon 14" bandsaw that I'm mostly satisfied with, but if the 1.5hp motor had another 1/2 hp behind it, it'd do everything I need it to. I don't know as much as I'd like to about AC motors, so I don't know enough to know what I don't know, so it could be a lame idea that's fraught with peril and is too ridiculous to even consider, or something that could be handled reasonably easily with a trip to a local motor shop. I'm pretty handy, so I'm not worried about being able to do the work, just uninformed about motor technology. Am I better off forgetting the whole hair brained idea, or pursue it with some guidance?
 
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1 1/2hp with a sharp blade has always done what I want on a bandsaw. Maybe you really want to cut quickly, but pretty soon you will have to increase the size of the belt and pulleys to transmit the power you want to put to it. More belts can also handle the power. Delta put 3 belts on their Unisaw with 1 1/2 hp motors.
 
1-1/2 hp is probably already overpowered for that saw. Increasing the motor size is unlikely to give you any benefits. If you’re having trouble try a blade with fewer teeth, and maybe dial up the tension a bit (not too much).
 
Hmmm....do it.....from always watching at least 1 rotation from ____ see signature 20221006_054937.jpg20220909_152420.jpg
 
I'm in the don't bother camp. You could find a motor with the same mounting frame and it is a bolt on attachment, but going up to 2HP, probably means also going to 240. Years ago, I had a delta 14" saw with a .5HP motor, found a 1.5HP locally, and swapped it out. Not sure I noticed a real difference - that was worth the cost and hassle. Ended up selling that saw and replacing it with a 1940's walker turner 16" with a .5HP motor. I've never desired more power on this saw, but the old GE motor is the size of a modern 2HP and probably heavier.

1.5 should be plenty for a 14" saw, I'd spend my money trying a number of different blades that are custom for the purpose - i.e. a green wood blade, a resaw blade, and a few styles of 1/4 and 3/8" blades based on the lumber being cut. Logic being that the right blade for the job will be a huge improvement. You can resaw with a 3/8" general blade, but it is gonna be slow and won't provide as smooth a cut as a dedicated resaw blade.
 
I have a question for anyone with the knowledge.....

I recently purchased a G0817 Grizzly resaw bandsaw with a 2hp/110v motor. My shop circuit would be very close to maxing the amperage available, so I purchased a 220v kit to convert the motor.

The question: Is there any theoretical performance difference by converting from 110v to 220v....or, is that exactly the same?

-----odie-----
 
odie said:
The question: Is there any theoretical performance difference by converting from 110v to 220v....or, is that exactly the same?
Click to expand...
TL;DR from that article John posted - no significant performance difference, but for the same HP, a 220v motor will draw less current (amps) which has a lot of advantages (load balancing, less expensive wiring, etc).

The flip side means that to upgrade from a 1.5 HP to 2+ HP, you usually need to also go to 220v (because your house wiring etc will be happier this way).
 
Ric Williams said:
I've got a Rikon 14" bandsaw that I'm mostly satisfied with, but if the 1.5hp motor had another 1/2 hp behind it, it'd do everything I need it to. I don't know as much as I'd like to about AC motors, so I don't know enough to know what I don't know, so it could be a lame idea that's fraught with peril and is too ridiculous to even consider, or something that could be handled reasonably easily with a trip to a local motor shop. I'm pretty handy, so I'm not worried about being able to do the work, just uninformed about motor technology. Am I better off forgetting the whole hair brained idea, or pursue it with some guidance?
Click to expand...
I've got an older 14" Delta bandsaw with the riser block (gives it about a 12" height max). I think it came with a 1/2HP motor. When I added the riser block I also gave it a 1 HP motor. That's been plenty - cut lots of green wood with it for a few decades. Any time I bogged it down was operator error (cutting too fast, wrong blade, allowed the kerf to close up and bind the blade, etc).

Your more cost effective upgrade would probably be searching for better blades for whatever you're trying to do with the saw.
 
When first setting up my wood shop, almost 30 years ago, every book I read about machines said that any motor 1 hp and above ran better on 220 volt circuit. My little PM bandsaw, which cuts 6 inches high has a 3/4 hp motor on it and as long as the blade is sharp, it will walk through anything I put on it. If you are cutting 14 inches high, I would expect 1 1/2 hp motors would yield about the same results. However, having the proper blade for what you are cutting is huge in getting best performance out of the machine. If I was cutting that high, and ripping slabs, I would want a 3/4 or so inch blade, and maybe 3 tpi max. A narrower blade, even with proper tensioning, will bend and flex a lot.

I have a couple of machines that I rewired for 220. They did seem to work better on the 220 than they did on 110. Not sure about the amp usage on 220 machines. They have 2 leads coming in, so instead of drawing all the amps from one lead, they draw the amps from 2 leads. I think...... Not an electrical engineer.

robo hippy
 
I ran into some bogging on a really dense thick piece of red oak, using a new Lennox 3/4" 2tpi blade, guides and tension set up for that blade, where the difference between cutting slowly and bogging down was very slight. Granted, I was pushing the machine near to it's specified limits, so my thinking was that having 33% more power would open up the range between cutting and bogging, but if the rest of the machine isn't up to the extra load, it becomes a moot point. Like I said, it handles most normal jobs well enough, but I have an affliction that makes me tend to look at ways of modifying things to "improve" them. Sometimes it actually does. Other times...
 
odie said:
I have a question for anyone with the knowledge.....

I recently purchased a G0817 Grizzly resaw bandsaw with a 2hp/110v motor. My shop circuit would be very close to maxing the amperage available, so I purchased a 220v kit to convert the motor.

The question: Is there any theoretical performance difference by converting from 110v to 220v....or, is that exactly the same?

-----odie-----
Click to expand...

There isn't any difference at all in performance because all that you do is reconfigure the internal windings of the motor by changing the connections of some pigtail leads or jumpers on a circuit board on the motor power interface junction box. When the motor is wired for 115 volts the windings are wired in parallel and when operating on 230 volts the the windings are wired in series.

I'm suprised that your 2 HP motor can be configured for 115 volts. All of the 2 HP motors that I have seen are 230 or 460 volts. A 2 HP motor typically has a nameplate FLA (full load Amps) of about 10 Amps which would be 20 Amps at 115 volts which would exceed what the code allows on a 115 volt branch circuit if my memory is still sort of functioning. However, Grizzly is famous for fibbing about horsepower on many of their machines.
 
Straight shootin' here. I have my doubts that the frame can accept the additional stresses of a larger motor. To my eyes, this looks more than a little jerry rigged. Time for a new saw.

Monty
 
Based on the 240v vs 120v article than John King was kind enough to post, changing the bandsaw to a 240v circuit might, in theory, reduce the tendency to bog down at high loads if it's being exacerbated by voltage drops on the 120v circuit. Certainly a cheaper thing to try than changing motors. I've got room for one more double breaker in the panel, but I'm also starting to think I'm getting close to the point where it's time to consider rewiring the garage. The previous owner claimed to be an engineer, but based on things I've found here, I'm certain he wasn't an electrical engineer.
 
If you can swap it to 240v I'd do it. I know that my Unisaw is a completely different machine on 240v vs 120v. On 240v it flies through 3" hardwood. On 120v it's markedly less powerful.
 
Motor bogging down can often be misdiagnosed, and in fact be an issue with the belt slipping. Start with changing the belt if you see any cracking, glazing, or belt tension issues. That saw would not have come with a very high quality belt.
 
I wonder if Greg Hyland was still president of Cooper Electric, an electrical contractor in Cincinnatti after that article that he co-authored in Popular Woodworking was published. People probably assume that somebody with a Master Electrician's license is pretty knowledgeable about electricity, but that would be a false assumption. Passing the master electrician's exam isn't at all about knowledge of electricity, it's about knowledge of the electrical code, and the NEC is all about safety ... fire safety, shock safety, safe wiring practices such as wires in a raceway, the proper way to connect devices, how to size the ampacity for a residence or business, where GFCI (ground fault breakers, etc) are required, dedicated branch circuits requirements how many wires you can pull through a conduit, pool and spa safety, sizing the wiring for motors, and on and on ... While he said some things that were good ideas he went off into the weeds totally confused when he started bloviating about why 240 volts is better for a motor. There are some valid reasons especially the cost of wire these days if you're installing a new branch circuit. The thing that made me slap my computer monitor was when he started comparing a motor operating on 120 volts versus 240 volts on page 80 second column. He correctly said that the power consumption in both cases is exactly the same, 2400 watts. But then he completely showed his ignorance by saying that the motor would run cooler on 240 volts. No, 2400 watts is 2400 watts voltage and current are irrelevant.
 
There‘s less voltage loss on the 240v line using half when the line decently long. Voltage loss is wasted heat which means more electricity gets wasted as heat in the line when running a big motor on 120v. Reducing voltage loss could be the reason why some might see a slight power increase when running on 240v.
 
Look at the amp rating on the motor first. Note your motor's amp rating. If you want a more powerful motor, multiply your existing amp rating by that percentage. That should get you in the ball park of a successful upgrade in horsepower.
They say figures don't lie but liars figure. I've got a 12 amp vacuum cleaner. The HP rating says 6-1/2 HP. Yeah, right. Horsepower ratings on home workshop grade machines has been a standing joke at least since I first noticed it in the early 1970s.
If you're running on 120 volts now, then as has been suggested, swap things out for 240 volts. While the arithmetic theory is the same. most often the current flow from the source to the load is easier.

Motor engineering data says a one HP motor on 120 volts draws 16 amps. (there's more to it than that but that's a good benchmark) A 1-1/2 HP motor should draw 20 amps at 120 volts. If the Rikon motor plate says 20 amps at 120 volts, then they are telling the truth about their motor being 1-1/2 HP.
 
Bob Vaughan said:
Look at the amp rating on the motor first. Note your motor's amp rating. If you want a more powerful motor, multiply your existing amp rating by that percentage. That should get you in the ball park of a successful upgrade in horsepower.
They say figures don't lie but liars figure. I've got a 12 amp vacuum cleaner. The HP rating says 6-1/2 HP. Yeah, right. Horsepower ratings on home workshop grade machines has been a standing joke at least since I first noticed it in the early 1970s.
If you're running on 120 volts now, then as has been suggested, swap things out for 240 volts. While the arithmetic theory is the same. most often the current flow from the source to the load is easier.

Motor engineering data says a one HP motor on 120 volts draws 16 amps. (there's more to it than that but that's a good benchmark) A 1-1/2 HP motor should draw 20 amps at 120 volts. If the Rikon motor plate says 20 amps at 120 volts, then they are telling the truth about their motor being 1-1/2 HP.
Click to expand...

I agree with your observations, but not necessarily all of your "figures". :) A 1½ HP motor should have an FLA nameplate rating in the neighborhood of 12 to 14 Amps depending on its efficiency (the efficiency of motors older than about ten years typically had an efficiency lower than 70%, and newer motors have an efficiency greater than 80%).

Sears Craftsman was probably the world's worst about "inflating" air compressor horsepower.
 
Ed Jarvis said:
When I wired my shop and garage I put in both 220 &110 volt wiring and used 110/220v receptacles.
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I was looking at a house for sale (because it had an interesting shop space) and the shop had a bunch of regular 15A 110v outlets (like are in your living room) where he'd marked one side "110" and the other "220" with a sharpie. Scared me to death.
 
My shop was wired by a licensed electrician, He uses a 4x4 Box with a single 220 outlet and a110 duplex receptacle in it I believe he used 2 hots for the 220 and 1 hot for the 110 Plus neutral and ground in a 3/4' plastic conduit.

I knew a man with a 1hp Northfield 20" band saw it did not cut very well on thick woods, my parks/craftsman no problems.
 
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Ed Jarvis said:
My shop was wired by a licensed electrician, He uses a 4x4 Box with a single 220 outlet and a110 duplex receptacle in it I believe he used 2 hots for the 220 and 1 hot for the 110 Plus neutral and ground in a 3/4' plastic conduit.
Click to expand...
I wire the 220 drops in my shop that way - I have 2-phase drops to my lathe and bandsaw specifically so I can wire a couple 110 outlets for lights, etc, along with the single-phase for the machine.
 
I think that it would be a good idea if we adopt the terminology used in many, if not most, countries for the term "ground". The terms "earth" for "ground" and "earthing" for "grounding" are used in many countries. This might help reduce some of the confusion about the difference between neutral and ground when it comes to wiring a structure or even more confusing in the realm of electronics where we have terms such as signal ground, chassis ground, logic ground, common, and the misnomer, power ground which should be called power neutral).

In the 240-volt service brought into our homes, neutral is the center tap on the distribution transformer. The two ends of the transformer winding are what we call the hot legs, designated A and B (or sometimes L1 and L2). The voltage between A and B is nominally 240 volts. Since neutral is at the midpoint, the voltage between it and A or B is 120 volts. The voltage is a 60 Hz (Hz, the abbreviation for Hertz ... not the car rental place, but Heinrich Hertz, a pioneer in radio communications) sinewave alternating current power.

I don't know if this graph is useful in showing the AC waveforms for A and B. If we look at the voltage of the two hot legs measured with respect to neutral we see that the two voltage waveforms always are always opposite in polarity. What we call 120 volts is the RMS (root mean square or effective equivalent to DC) voltage. The instantaneous voltage varies from +170 volts to -170 volts.

180 deg.jpg​
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I wired my Robust lathe with a four-wire twist-lock generator connector because, in addition to the 240-volt wiring for the lathe power, I brought in neutral for a 120-volt power strip for lighting and small power tools like drills and shop vac.
 
I plan to rewire the motor for 220 and run another circuit to run it. If that helps, cool! If not, no harm done and it'll theoretically run at least as well as it did. As far as upgrading the motor, it's not worth the expense and inevitable hassles involved. I only push the saw to it's limits once or twice a year, so this was an exploration of the idea of a motor upgrade and a lot more reasons not to bother, than to try it. You know what they say: "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it won't make it cut any better.".
I'll add a bigger bandsaw to my wish list somewhere after a real shop, a table saw, a better drill press, a good air compressor, a Robust AB, some talent, a likeable personality and a winning lottery ticket.
 
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