Bandsaw blade question.......

[Odie]

Finished - excuse the verbose Odie

Odie, I hope that you don't mind too much that your thread has been hijacked, although I have a feeling that you also have appreciated the evolution. In a sense, the subject has not really changed -- it has only delved deeper into what make some wood hard to cut and why does some wood dull cutting edges so quickly.

Wayne and Bill.......

No, heck no! I don't mind at all......I see this the same as you both do. I'm enjoying the added input, as it relates to turning.......😀

ooc

 

[Edward Weber]

Odie, can you post a picture of the "Goncalo Alves" blank that started all of this. I'm curious to see if someone can identify it differently, or if it's just one of "those" pieces. Thanks

 

[Odie]

Odie, can you post a picture of the "Goncalo Alves" blank that started all of this. I'm curious to see if someone can identify it differently, or if it's just one of "those" pieces. Thanks

Hi Ed........

I can do that........maybe tonight or tomorrow. At this point, I think it was Goncalo Alves, as it looks similar to a few other recently done pieces, but not as tight grained as I've done about 5-6 years ago.......

There is an update to the story now. Yesterday, I was cutting the corners off a Bocote 8x2 blank and the Timberwolf blade was catching badly......just as with the 6x2 Goncalo Alves blank. I immediately exchanged the 3/8" Timberwolf blade with the newly purchased Carbide.com 1/2" alternate set blade......and, the catching resumed. I managed to get the Bocote blank cut round, but it was a struggle. Tried reversing direction of cut, thinking the angle of the grain might be the cause.....no change. I also tried cutting in a straight line, not curved.....still, no change. The new blade was set up correctly, and properly tensioned, as prescribed.

The similarities of the two bowl blanks are "hard and dense". I'll have to check, but I believe both were in the 22-24 percent MC range.

I have cut only one bowl blank since the Bocote, but this was a very soft Redwood burl. With prolonged trouble-free use, I'll have more input to evaluate, but the Redwood burl cut very nicely. The piece of Redwood burl was 6x3 1/4".

ooc

 

[Bill Boehme]

... Yesterday, I was cutting the corners off a Bocote 8x2 blank and the Timberwolf blade was catching badly......just as with the 6x2 Goncalo Alves blank. I immediately exchanged the 3/8" Timberwolf blade with the newly purchased Carbide.com 1/2" alternate set blade......and, the catching resumed......

The similarities of the two bowl blanks are "hard and dense". I'll have to check, but I believe both were in the 22-24 percent MC range....

Don't you just hate it when things like that rear their ugly heads just when you think that the problem has finally been solved?

I am not sure that I have a good mental picture of what is going on when you say that it is catching. Is the blade stopping ... as in the saw is stil running while the blade stops? I'll go with you knowing how to set up the bandsaw, but I thought that I might come up with some additional thoughts about what could possibly be going on. I had a thought that the belt might be slipping if it is old.

Oh well, this is just another challenge to keep your mind busy. Have a Merry Christmas and think about this later.

 

[Odie]

Don't you just hate it when things like that rear their ugly heads just when you think that the problem has finally been solved?

I am not sure that I have a good mental picture of what is going on when you say that it is catching. Is the blade stopping ... as in the saw is stil running while the blade stops? I'll go with you knowing how to set up the bandsaw, but I thought that I might come up with some additional thoughts about what could possibly be going on. I had a thought that the belt might be slipping if it is old.

Oh well, this is just another challenge to keep your mind busy. Have a Merry Christmas and think about this later.

Yeah, I sure do hate it, Bill........

The blade has stopped (with the motor still running), but mostly it "pops", or seems "grabby". That's about the best I can explain it. I haven't noticed the blade slowing down any, as you would think would happen with a slipping belt, but checking on the belt is something I have not done......thanks for the suggestion. I'll check on it tomorrow. Possibly a belt tension adjustment is in order, or belt dressing, or replacement.......I don't think the belt has ever been changed, and I've had this 16" band saw for close to 25 years.

The photo on the left is of the two problem bowl blanks.......Goncalo Alves on the left and the Bocote blank is on the right. The Goncalo Alves blank was 26 percent MC, and the Bocote was 22 percent MC. I'm also including a few pictures of Goncalo Alves bowls I've done in the past. I think it really is Goncalo Alves, and the whole mistaken identification thing is a matter of my memory not being as reliable as I had thought.......can I claim old age yet? 😱

Anyway, thanks for turning my attention towards the band saw drive belt......it's now a priority for me to look into it.

ooc

 

[Odie]

Update......

The band saw drive belts looked pretty good, despite the age. There are two belts with an idler/step pulley. One was a bit looser than I'd like to see, but not real loose. Tension on both were reset, and Permatex belt dressing applied.

This could have conceivably been the source of the problem, but time will tell. I cut the corners on an 8x3 Myrtle bowl blank to test it. It's harder than the Redwood burl, but not as hard and dense as the Bocote.....no problem with cutting the Myrtle.

Thanks to Bill for giving me a little needed inspiration to do a belt adjustment and maintenance on the band saw drive belts. 😀

ooc

BTW: As is my usual procedure when rounding bowl blocks, I test the bottom surface on a known flat surface, such as the table saw top. If it doesn't set flat, it goes to the 6x48 belt sander and trued up before going to the band saw.......

 

[robo hippy]

I was having belt slipping problems. Couldn't figure it out. Eventually did. A friend had used the bandsaw. He reset the 'squareness' of the table to the blade, and instead of using the table leveling bolt, he removed it, and used the belt tensioning bolt to raise the bed a bit, which added slack to the motor drive belt. Problem solved.

robo hippy

 

[Bill Boehme]

It's like getting in the shortest line at the store. Things aren't always what they seem to be.

 

[KellyDunn]

Well, lots of guesses that make sense. The sulfer here is in the active vents of the volcano. A long ways from me. Where the magma cooled in large areas slowly we have an extremely hard blue rock. But most of the lava flows can allow roots to break them apart easy. And over many thousands of years roots slowly create a soil layer. I live on the oldest part of the Big Island. So lots of soil. But not deep soil. And not all trees suck up stuff. So perhaps a mystery. I think I will ask on another forum and see what kind of feedback I get. Interesting thread. Merry Christmas to all.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Back to the bandsaw for one more comment -- I have had a tire get completely loose on an old bandsaw that was about ten year old at the time. The rubber had lost all of it's "stretch" and was as loose as a noodle. The belt was also sort of hard in the sense that it was not really cushioning the teeth of the blade. That can cause a blade to have more set on one side than the other and not cut straight. I can't remember if the loose tire on the drive wheel caused the band to slip, but I can see where it could if I had tried to cut some especially hard dense wood that was also thick.

We had a very unusual occurrence here yesterday -- snow -- real snow -- on Christmas day even. We lost our cable TV and Internet service so we had to speculate about what people did before staring at a glowing screen for hours on end -- and I couldn't Google the answer (now that Google has become a verb). The answers we came up with including eating, cooking, talking, and opening a gift to ourselves -- a TV, which obviously we could not watch. 😀

 

[Odie]

We had a very unusual occurrence here yesterday -- snow -- real snow -- on Christmas day even. We lost our cable TV and Internet service so we had to speculate about what people did before staring at a glowing screen for hours on end -- and I couldn't Google the answer (now that Google has become a verb). The answers we came up with including eating, cooking, talking, and opening a gift to ourselves -- a TV, which obviously we could not watch. 😀

As long as we're veering from the subject again........thought I'd register my input on this........

Don't remember the exact day, but it's now been about 5-7 years since I watched any TV at all......zip, zero, nada! Because of this one thing, my productivity has doubled, or tripled in the past few years.

So, you wonder what people did.......back then? They did whatever was in their hearts, because their minds weren't being overloaded with more information they could possibly process.

I do participate in several internet forums with a single theme. I don't participate on multiple forums with the same theme. I do this purposefully, because I understand that I must limit the time I invest with computers. That is why I do not bother with the other woodturning forums.......I just don't want to consume my time with these things. If the information is worthwhile, I will see it here.......maybe on a different timeline, but it will get here eventually. For me, woodturning is a major focus in my life, but these days woodturning is like a part-time job, and I am working full time.......and, I have a family. It's difficult to cover all the bases, but eliminating TV from my life is one of the best things I've ever done in the pursuit of self-fulfillment.

:cool2:

ooc

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... Don't remember the exact day, but it's now been about 5-7 years since I watched any TV at all......zip, zero, nada! Because of this one thing, my productivity has doubled, or tripled in the past few years.

So, you wonder what people did.......back then? They did whatever was in their hearts, because their minds weren't being overloaded with more information they could possibly process. ....

You have my admiration for your decision. I might do the same, but have been out voted in our household.

I was secretly enjoying the quietness (please don't rat me out) and the opportunity for doing other things.

 

[John Lawson]

...I might do the same, but have been out voted in our household....

I did do the same when I was single. Didn't watch TV for years in the 70's and 80's. But my darling wife cannot be in the house without the TV on. I used to read 2-5 books per week. Now I'm lucky to get that much reading done in a year. DVR's are a boon because you can watch 4 shows in 3 hours.

 

[Bill Boehme]

... my darling wife cannot be in the house without the TV on....

My wife and your wife must be twin sisters. 😀

 

[john lucas]

I watch TV simply because by the time evening gets here I'm tired from working all day. I need a little diversion and the right shows sort of take me away from it all for a little while.
I am thinking of dropping Dish. It's just too expensive. I'm going to put up an antenna and can hopefully pick up the Nashville stations 80 miles away. That will fill my news void. Then I purchased a Roku unit so I can watch movies. I plan to ride the bike trainer while watching to get some serious exercise in.

 

[Odie]

I watch TV simply because by the time evening gets here I'm tired from working all day. I need a little diversion and the right shows sort of take me away from it all for a little while.
I am thinking of dropping Dish. It's just too expensive. I'm going to put up an antenna and can hopefully pick up the Nashville stations 80 miles away. That will fill my news void. Then I purchased a Roku unit so I can watch movies. I plan to ride the bike trainer while watching to get some serious exercise in.

John.......may I suggest some radio in your shop. You won't miss out on any of the current news coverage. I'm thinking about adding some satellite radio to my shop......but, haven't done that yet. I use satellite radio in the home, and transfer it to the car for trips.....pretty good programming, no matter what you fancy!......Even have old radio programming like Whistler, Green Hornet, etc.......great for long trips!

I also dumped Dish Network.......still have tv and a vcr for vhs/dvd movies. My son and I have make regular trips to the local movie rental place on Tuesdays, when they run weekly specials on all movies in the place (including new releases) for 99 cents.

Since there is no tv programming here, computer use has gone up for everyone......as expected. I have to limit myself, but place no limits on anyone else.

Wife never did watch much tv, but the two boys converted much easier than I ever expected.........no complaints from anyone, but there was some resistance when the tv first was eliminated from this home.......(older boy now graduated from hs, and is off on his own now, but still have one 13yr old boy at home.)

ooc

 

[john lucas]

Odie I have satelite radio in the shop. The local radio stations suck. I don't listen to talk radio or news when in the shop. It's too distracting. I couldn't do without my oldies. I sing along with Frank Sinatra, Neil Diamond, Tom Jones, John Denver and all the fun ones.

 

[Odie]

Odie I have satelite radio in the shop. The local radio stations suck. I don't listen to talk radio or news when in the shop. It's too distracting. I couldn't do without my oldies. I sing along with Frank Sinatra, Neil Diamond, Tom Jones, John Denver and all the fun ones.

Whatever works for you, John........

I hear you, re: distracting. You are correct. There are times when I turn off the radio, so that I can concentrate better. When the lathe is running, or any of the other machinery, for that matter......I can't hear it, anyway. It's easy to concentrate at the lathe, because there is nothing to interfere with your train of thought.

When you said you sat down to the tv because you were tired from work, it reminded me of my old routine. It was just too easy to stay in the easy chair longer than I ever intended. Over and over and over again, the same thing happens.........and that is..... nothing important in my life got done at the rate I could be satisfied with.

For me, it's easy to have 20/20 hindsight and see how the tv effected my personal life negatively.

ooc

 

[Gretch Flo]

tv

I never watched tv much-my husband (now ex) was in control of that. Watched all sorts of sports -you know like curling, bowling tiddly winks(during the week end days) and I thought it was counter productive as I was doing all the work around the house. Actually turned me off on sports. I have had season Mich st university football tickets that I worked my way thru the years to the 50 yd line-Used to love them. Got turned off. Now Just sell them to friends of mine.
But then 2 years ago I for a 42" tv and what a difference. I am with John on this, I turn til 8 pm for the last 6 months when I am not doing real work that pays the bills, and like certain programs that may have 3 show in a row, and I don't mind the reruns. (Criminal minds, castle, Law and order -special victims are my favs ). Large screen allow me to work on the computer and see the screen from across the room.
I can vegetate then, after being busy for 12-13 hours. Gretch

 

[Laurence Giglio]

Back to bandsaw blades

First, on the TV side of things, I am a music person, my wife is a visual one. She stays in the house watching the telly and I am out in the garage with the CDs blaring. I am an old time rocker with some opera tossed in for surprise.

BUT

I have an underpowered 1/2 maybe a 3/4 hp 14 inch delta BS with riser. I go through those green wood BS blades quickly, so I started about a year ago to sharpening them myself. I can generally sharpen them 2 times before they are toast andI have to hang a new one. (I use a Dremel with the flat side of a cutoff disk just glancing off the top of each tooth while it is still on the BS method)

But, the real problem is the set. When they loose their set, they bind, and heat, then ruint blade. I have searched high an low on finding a way to reset the blades but to no avail.
So the question here is, How many here sharpen their own blades?
Do you gave a way to reset them?

I was thinking of taking a flat piece of steel, like the backside of a railroad tie plate, grinding a dimple roughly the shape of a tooth in it and using a hand held nail set whacking every other tooth one time, flipping the blade over and doing the adjacent side likewise. But the blade will bounce and no set will be achived, so I nixed that idea. I know, they are less than 20 bucks, but at 5 per year thats a bowl gouge. I just got a PM 3520, I have to save somewhere!

 

[MichaelMouse]

You're looking for a saw set. Something like this. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002YQRZ6...e=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B0002YQRZ6

Neanders have to do it with their handsaws, but I'm supposing a blade is a blade when all things are considered. http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/ftj/spring97/spring97.html

For those who might not recognize, I assume this is your method? http://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/sharpening.html

 

[Laurence Giglio]

That is the basic method (I cant find the original video) The key difference in my method is that I hit more of the entire forward edge of each tooth. I also keep the blade on the BS, and I match the angle the tooth makes. Some teeth have gullets right facing some are left, not exactly every other one, sometimes they are two adjacent on one side, others its every other one. I mark the blade with a bold magic marker showing where I started. But I slowly go around, moving the blade with one hand holding the dremel locked in one position hitting lets say the RIGHT hand tilted teeth, THEN readjust the wrist, lock it and hit the left facing teeth. The video you showed he hit just the very end of the tooth and he didnt adjust the angle of the gullet.

I do sort of pendulum motion, I move the dremel down the tooth back, slightly move my wrist to that side, with the other hand I turn the bandsaw wheel moving the next RIGHT facing tooth downward, letting the dremel hit that tooth, sort of like letting the dremel roll down the tooth back moving it away and advancing the next tooth on the same side continuing until I am back to the starting point.

I then readjust the wrist for the LEFT side facing teeth, repeat and get back to the starting point. The top of each tooth should be shiny and then you know its done. For a 103 inch blade with 3 TPI, it takes about 5 minutes to do the blade. You can do two blades in the time to hear the studio version of Free Bird.

I will look into the and blade set and see if that will work for BS blades.

 

[Odie]

Just a quick note to let those reading this thread know how things panned out.....

The new band saw blades did help, but I was still getting some problems with very wet, hard and dense woods. I've always used 3-4 tpi band saw blades in the past for rough cutting, but I did have one old 6tpi blade.....and, decided to try that on one of the problem blanks. This was a success, but the blade was dull. I ordered a couple of new blades.......one 6 tpi, and one 8tpi.

I haven't mounted the 8tpi blade yet, but the new 6tpi blade has worked perfectly on the most difficult of wet, hard and dense bowl blanks.

The 6 tpi blade cuts slower, and is a finer cutting blade. I believe I'll switch over to this blade for use as needed........

ooc

 

[Edward Weber]

Glad to hear that you are getting better results.
I do have to mention that back on page 3 of the thread, I cautioned you about using 3 tpi blades, they can be too aggressive for some wood species.

 

[robo hippy]

One turner on another forum was having problems with his TW blades cutting red eucalyptus. Not going straight, etc. If you aren't familiar with the wood:imported for furniture making, too twisty for furniture, then tried to make railroad ties, and too twisty for that, so now is just a tree. Well, wanting some of the wood because it is one I had never turned, I traded a Lennox Diemaster bandsaw blade (1/2 x .035 x 3 tpi) for some wood. His comments were that it had no problems with the eucalyptus and cut faster. He also said the TW felt sharper out of the box. Now, to see how long it lasts compared to the TW. Really, they are the best blades out there for rough sawing bowl blanks. Really folks, in my opinion, the best bang for your bucks with resawing blades. Carbide tipped blades are for sawing fine veneers.

robo hippy

 

[Odie]

Glad to hear that you are getting better results.
I do have to mention that back on page 3 of the thread, I cautioned you about using 3 tpi blades, they can be too aggressive for some wood species.

Hi Edward.......indeed you did! .....and here is your post:

Odie, I'm not going to recommend a particular brand of blade, but a alternate tooth raker design would be better for your cutting habits. This design is not quite as aggressive as the positive hook or claw type but usually will result in a cleaner cut. The reason you are having the blade catch in the blank is most likely a dull blade.
What happens is this, the point of the tooth enters the wood and tries to pull itself through the blank, but if the gullet of the tooth is dull it can't take that big of a bite and either stalls the machine or throws the blade. This is common with low tooth count blades as they become dull and the problem becomes compounded especially on underpowered machines.
You might want to stay away from 3 tpi blades and slow the feed rate, don't let the blade pull the wood into it.

I don't blame you for the "I told you so"! 😀

At the time, I was concentrating on other things I thought were the more likely solution. They were, to a degree, but not the "silver bullet" I was anticipating. 🙁

ooc

 

[Edward Weber]

I couldn't resist 😀

 

[Steve Worcester]

I will say this, bandsaws don't always cut straight. There will be some drift. If you want to cut straight, draw a straight line in plywood with a straight side and cut the wood for about 18" and stop the saw and set the fence on the straight side.

TPI is somewhat directly related to the thickness, 6 TPI would be wood around 2" thick (IMNSHO) if you are cutting thicker blanks, you don't care about tearout, go to 2 TPI of less. Now, the depth of the balde has a reflection on how straight it cuts, but more importantly the arc of the circle, thats where blade depth is related.

 

[robo hippy]

Well, being too persnickety, the blades do not always cut square to the table or the fence. The blade should be able to cut a straight line though, and some blades will cut more of an arc. This is a tooth set problem. Like the guy cutting the eucalyptus, that particular wood made the TW blade cut in an arc where it didn't on most other woods. This might be a grain problem as he could not split the eucalyptus, it would chunk off rather than split. Some times having a too thin blade is part of the problem as well. Not having the blade tensioned properly also contributes. No matter how carefully I set the fence, it never seems to line up with the blade.

robo hippy

 

[hockenbery]

Well, being too persnickety, the blades do not always cut square to the table or the fence. The blade should be able to cut a straight line though, and some blades will cut more of an arc. This is a tooth set problem. Like the guy cutting the eucalyptus, that particular wood made the TW blade cut in an arc where it didn't on most other woods. This might be a grain problem as he could not split the eucalyptus, it would chunk off rather than split. Some times having a too thin blade is part of the problem as well. Not having the blade tensioned properly also contributes. No matter how carefully I set the fence, it never seems to line up with the blade.

robo hippy

A bandsaw can cut fairly accurately but I never get the precision some folks do.

I go through a whole set up regimen when I change blades.

Open the guides,
Mount the blade ( check twice to see the teeth are pointing down). 🙂
Tension and track the blade.
Check the table for square to the blade.
Set the guides and back bearing a dollar bill width from the blade. If any guide touches it will Untrue the blade
Then I use an 18 " long square board to set the fence like steve described.
Blades rarely cut square to the table so I make a line a distance from the edge of the board.
Cut that line about a foot. Hold the board to the table and bring the fence up to the board true edge and set it there.
Continue the cut through the board.
Then I take two more cuts through the board cutting a 1/8" slice off.
The second slice I check with calipers. It should be the same thickness end to end as close as I can measure with my cheapie vernier calipers
If not I reset the fence.

I can then rip quite a few blanks against the fence. Quite accurately.

Feed rate will affect the straightness of cut. Hard woods funky grain. Cut more slowly let the blade clear it's path.
Push to fast and the blade moves around where it has not cut.

Worn guides affect accuracy too.

In the end a bandsaw is not a table saw.

al

 

[Edward Weber]

There are two schools of thought on aligning a band saw to cut straight.
First is the previously mentioned align the fence to the blade drift.
Second is align the blade (using the tracking) to the fence.
Here is a link to a pdf that explains this
http://www.ccwwa.org/NEWSITE/plans/BandsawTuneup1.pdf