Bandsaw Advice / Priorities?

[Allen Mattsen]

I'm currently struggling using a cheap, used WEN 10" bandsaw that, well, sucks.

My primary reason for using a bandsaw is preparing green bowl blanks (and other turning stock - hollow forms, spindle, etc). I turn mainly on a 2436 lathe. I have a chainsaw. I don't plan on doing a lot of resawing of large material.

I need help deciding what's important for us woodturners: capacity, horsepower, ceramic vs bearing guides, etc (and obviously cost is a factor).

Questions:
What's important to you in a bandsaw?
Are ceramic guides better for green wood or woodturning in general?
Is 2HP sufficient enough or should I push for 3HP?
Is a 14" machine going to do everything I need it to do long term or would 17~18" models be much better to have?

Some candidates (all are 220v w/ brake):

Laguna 18BX, 3HP, ceramic guides, $2600
Laguna 14BX, 2HP, ceramic guides, $1600
Grizzly G0513X2BF 17", 2HP, bearing guides, $2000
Harvey C-14, 14" , 3HP, bearing guides, $1995
Rikon 10-353, 14" 3HP, bearing guides, $2000

Availability is also an issue. Laguna is backordered until October '21, by some sites. Rikon until mid/late August.

Feedback appreciated. Thanks

 

[Roger Chandler]

17-18” class would be better in the long run, especially if you get one that has 16” or more resaw height/capability. That being said, a good quality 14” saw, well tuned can do a lot. I have both an 18” Jet bandsaw and a 14” Grizzly G0555LX. I use the 14” saw probably at least 75% of the time, maybe more. I put a riser block kit on it to raise my resaw height to 12” and it only has a 1 hp motor, but a strong 1 hp at that. I’ve cut most of my blanks on that saw for 5 years now, but I use a correct blade for green wood, and have the saw well tuned, so I get optimal performance from it. It has the original carter style roller bearings that came on the saw. Green wood is it’s own issue, as far as sawdust gumming up the guides. I just clean my blade often, and have no major issues. I use the “Woodturners Blade” from Highland Woodworking. They are 3 tpi, .032 thickness, not the standard .025, and have a wider tooth set to clear the sawdust from the cut. I also use my dust collector to pull the sawdust out of the lower part of the saw.

 

[hockenbery]

Like roger said 16-18” depth of cut would be a feature to seriously consider.
and blade choice - 3 Tpi for wet wood.

i have had 16” Laguna with a 12” depth of cut for over 20 years. Great saw. at least 5 turnerscwho used it became Laguna owners. More competition now.

right after Laguna came out with the ceramic guides Laguna had a booth at the AAW symposium..
had a long chat with the owner.
1. He was Impressed with the AAW members and said the attendees were most sophisticated with regards to bandsaws that he had encountered at any trade show. I told him just about every attende would own a bandsaw and use nearly every day.

2. I asked him about switching to the ceramic guides. He asked about how I used the saw and said it would not be worth the cost for cutting green bowl blanks. If I got into a lot of rewarding lumber then switch.

my saw is 12” depth and it now handles everything I want to turn.
however they here was a time that I had to use the chainsaw a couple of times a month for bigger pieces.
an 18 depth of cut would have been great.

 

[Ron Solfest]

I’ve had the 18 Laguna for ~10yrs and am happy with it. My neighbor just got a 14BX Laguna that looks very nice, it has a couple newer features than mine but mostly looks like a smaller version. I think the 14BX has plenty of height capacity for 90+% of what I’ve ever sawn, and throat capacity for 80% of what I’ve sawn. The biggest day to day differences I see are HP and table size, in both cases the 18’s are nicer but the 14’s are sufficient.

Like most things, you can get something that’s “good” for a little bit less, or pay more for some “nice to halves”. If I had to do it again I’d think hard about the 14BX…and save the money to dream about a Minimax if I wanted to upgrade again

 

[Ed Weingarden]

I have the Grizzly G0513X2BF. I'm very pleased with how it performs, and find the brake to be an excellent feature.

 

[brian horais]

I've had a Laguna 14/12 for about 5 years now and wonder how I ever managed without it. I upgraded from an old Craftsman 10 inch and the difference in performance and precision was astounding. I now do things with my bandsaw I would never have tried with the Craftsman. My 14/12 can actually handle a 13 inch tall log that is over 2 feet in diameter when I am making the first few cuts through the center area. The ceramic guides work very well but need to be inspected and aligned occasionally to keep them performing well. Sharp blades are always a must because if you try to force a dull blade to cut in a direction it doesn't want to go eventually you will loosen the ceramic guides. Overall the Laguna is very well made with solid parts and a sturdy base. I did add the foot lift feature for ease of moving the saw. My 14/12 does not have a foot brake and I run with 110 V power, so it has less power than the 14BX.

 

[robo hippy]

I got a Laguna 16HD at least 15 years ago. It has paid for itself many times over. 4.5 hp Baldor motor and 16 cutting height. Since I never turn bowls over that size, it is perfect for slabbing up log sections. I keep a 1 1/4 inch Lennox bimetal blade on it, and teeth are about 3/4 inch apart, so it is specifically for that type of cutting. I did alter the dust ports on it, and that is one video I did, 'Bandsaws dust ports do not suck' or some thing like that. I should probably 'new and improve' what I did, mostly closing off more of the open spaces. I think Minimax has a comparable bandsaw, but it has been a while since I checked out bandsaws. My new shop has plenty of space so I don't have it on wheels any more. The motor may be a bit of overkill for 16 inch high cuts, but I would rather have more than I need. Not sure if ceramic guides are better than the other guides. I should probably replace the thrust bearings as they have grooves in all directions.

Oh, tables...... I think every bandsaw table is too small, especially if you are cutting up log blanks. This means that you should build yourself an outfeed table, both on the away side of the cuts so things don't fall on the ground, and on the outside, for the same reason. Having one on the side you push from could be problematic as some times you need to be closer to the table to push things through.

Every bandsaw should have a brake!

I only use the Lennox bimetal blades. They cut longer and faster and straighter than other blades. The teeth are M42HSS, which is not the go to metal for our gouges and scrapers. Not sure if the V10 can be used for teeth like this or not.

robo hippy

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Check Portland Craigslist. There're a couple band saws in the over 14" size priced way below the ones listed in the first post. A Jet in Vancouver with 11' cutting height for $550

I'm in Seattle. Seattle is larger than Portland yet Portland always seems to have a lot more interesting tools listed than Seattle.

 

[Larry Copas]

A old school 20" 1 HP Delta with steel guides. 3 TPI band in 1/4" to 1/2" width. The big advantage, and it is huge is the size of the table. Trying sawing a big rough 60 pound blank on a small table. I would not even consider a 14" saw for that reason.

Sawing bowl blanks for a week long bowl turning class.


Having written that, I must add that I never use the bandsaw to get a blank for myself. Its all chainsaw and lathe. When I went to David Ellsworth's shop last year for a week he had a 20" Powermatic bandsaw and we never turned it on. Several other turners do the same.

 

[Dean Center]

I'm like Larry. I chainsaw the half log into an octagon. If the size exceeds or pushes the capacity of the lathe, I go back around with the chain saw and cut more little pointy pieces off. (Is that a sexadecahedron?) It can be very difficult and possibly dangerous to use a bandsaw to make 16-22" green blanks on typical size bandsaws. I'm envious of those with high hp, big throated, big table bandsaws, but they are not realistic for me.

 

[Allen Mattsen]

My thinking is a quality bandsaw will allow me to save on some chainsawing which helps my bad back and also I live in a neighborhood so frequent chainsawing outside, at least, would be less. Easier to handle blanks on the lathe also would help me physically. Finally, I plan on resawing boards for box making and other flat work, at times. Yes, I can throw on a big chunk of wood or a log, go to town, and get by but outfitting my shop for the long term and taking some of the toll off my body are part of my rationale here.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

Allen, You raise a good point about chainsaw noise. I also live in a suburban neighborhood with four or five neighbors within 150’ or so of where I process blanks. I’m always very conscious of my chainsaw noise. My nearest neighbor works from home, so I text her when I’m about to start cutting outside and ask if it’ll bother her. So far she’s always thanked me and said no problem, but definitely a concern.
All that said, I have an older Delta 14” saw with a 6” cutting capacity. I’ve thought periodically about getting the 6” riser block, but so far, the times I’ve wanted to get out a blank much thicker than 6” I have no trouble doing it on with the chainsaw. For me the key is a sharp, 3TPI green wood blade in the saw. As long as I keep on top of that, and replace or resharpen when the blade starts to dull, I have no problem cutting blanks on the bandsaw.

 

[robo hippy]

Well, maybe it is time to put this video up again. I do need to 'new and improve' this. The log rocking as I am cutting has been a problem. I am thinking that maybe cutting a flat surface, like the end pieces I cut off, and then rolling the log 90 degrees for cutting the blanks might be more stable. Still, it is nice to have blanks that I can cut circles out of on my smaller bandsaw that are straight from the chainsaw. I need to figure a way to get closer to 'perfectly parallel' sides to the blanks. Maybe either a 'shooter stick' on the far side away from the chainsaw, or a square tube type of set up and a bracket that fits on both sides of the tube so the cut is always square..... Always room for improvement. As I say near the end of the video, every club should have one....

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JCwwCxkROw


robo hippy

 

[Allen Mattsen]

I watched that one a few weeks or so ago, Reed, good stuff .

There was also some interesting info this past week's Lancaster turners coffee hour (posted on YT) where people showed some new and improved designs of 'saw bucks' for lack of a better term. Some cool ideas.

I have a basic version but it's really early in the experience/learning process for me.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

What's important to you in a bandsaw?

A larger table.
Re-saw capacity ~12".
Throat capacity ~12".
Two miter slots.
Table slit runs in front.*
A good fence (or get the Carter fence).
Guides can be easily replaced.

*If the slot runs out to the right of the blade it can hang up on wood being pushed through the blade. On the other hand a front slot can mess with the fence.

 

[robo hippy]

In my other video about cutting up log blanks, I use plywood strips, in 1/2 inch increments from 1 to 8 inches for laying out blanks. I do not rock the saw during the cut as this makes for more humps and bumps on the slab. As long as the chain is sharpened properly, the saw generally won't go sideways too much, and some times that is operator error. It, like every thing else, takes practice. I may need to get one of those chainsaw sharpening set ups. I still plan on doing a fair amount of turning for another few years....

robo hippy

 

[Doug Freeman]

Used to think a big bandsaw would be great. After using a chainsaw and improving skills with it, a bandsaw would not get a lot of use in my shop. I’ll save the $ and floor space.

 

[Dave Hulett]

Bought my Laguna 14|12 three years ago and love it. Would I like to have a bigger one? Sure, if you gave it to me, but I couldn't justify the bigger price. Only complaint...I wish it had a brake, but not enough to justify the extra $300 for the 14|BX

 

[Mark Jundanian]

A larger table.
Re-saw capacity ~12".
Throat capacity ~12".
Two miter slots.
Table slit runs in front.*
A good fence (or get the Carter fence).
Guides can be easily replaced.

*If the slot runs out to the right of the blade it can hang up on wood being pushed through the blade. On the other hand a front slot can mess with the fence.

I forgot to mention a brake.

And a quick tension release lever.

 

[Allen Mattsen]

In my other video about cutting up log blanks, I use plywood strips, in 1/2 inch increments from 1 to 8 inches for laying out blanks. I do not rock the saw during the cut as this makes for more humps and bumps on the slab. As long as the chain is sharpened properly, the saw generally won't go sideways too much, and some times that is operator error. It, like every thing else, takes practice. I may need to get one of those chainsaw sharpening set ups. I still plan on doing a fair amount of turning for another few years....

robo hippy

I have a Harbor Freight chainsaw blade sharpener that came with the saw (and other accessories, chains, case, etc) and also a few files. I haven't used the HF grinder/sharpener yet. I like what I've seen on the 2-and-1 files sharpener by Stihl but have never used it. I like the idea of taking care of both filing operations at once but have never tried it. I have resharpened one chain on the saw with a round file by hand and it seemed to work fairly well. It's all learning and experience for me. Good tip on not rocking the saw, I'll remember that one next time and try it.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

I have a 14” Rikon. I round all of my bowl blanks on it. You can buy it for under $1,000. It has done everything I have needed including resaw.

 

[Glenn Lefley]

I recommend the Laguna. Get the biggest you can afford!

 

[Allen Mattsen]

So I went and looked at a Laguna 18BX yesterday, awesome looking machine! However, the guides were replaced multiple times, tires melted due to heat/friction when rounding blanks or using a circle cutting jig. Laguna replaced them several times even with different ceramic blocks/guides. Ultimately the solution was to install Carter bearing guides and everything was golden after that.

Just yesterday I watched a video NY Blacktail Studio and (coincidentally?) he was using a circle jig and...wait for it...melted his tires due to blade heat / friction whole rounding a decent sized walnut piece for a small table top - this time ok a 14BX.

I've also watched another video claiming same problem. It sounds like excellent for straight cuts, not so much for the things I mainly want to do.

The Grizzly 17" w/ brake is very tempting. $1900 or so, though it's only a 2HP motor.

I'm looking hard at the Rikons now also, @Randy. I know a local wood seller who is very w/ his 14" model.

I imagine a 14" could well be enough for me, I'd be building a large circle jig as a secondary table anyway and of things get too large well, use the chainsaw. The 18" Rikon looks really good, too. If I wasn't bent on having a break, this process would end up a lot cheaper, heh.

 

[Roger Chandler]

I've cut more blanks on my bandsaws than I can even begin to count over the years. I've never melted a bandsaw tire. I did replace the tires on my Jet 18" with urethane tires due to one breaking after probably 10 or 11 years of use. Melted bandsaw tires is a new one on me! I think something must have been out of adjustment to create that kind of heat!

 

[hockenbery]

Melted tires?
i have not heard of this before. Something has to be out of adjustment and rubbing to create that much heat.
a misaligned circle cutting jig might twist the blade enough to cause the heat.

i replaced tires on a used saw i bought that came out of school shop because tires were full of imbedded aluminum chips.

 

[Ed Weingarden]

The Grizzly 17" w/ brake is very tempting. $1900 or so, though it's only a 2HP motor.

I have the Grizzly G0513X2BF with the 2hp motor, and prep many large, green logs with my circle cutting jig. I have never noticed, nor has the thought entered my mind that I need a more powerful motor.

 

[Roger Chandler]

People can cut aluminum or brass on a woodcutting bandsaw, and the chips from the kerf can become embedded. I've never seen a tire melt on a saw, but I'm not saying it cannot happen. I suppose something must be amiss for that kind of heat to be generated, like guides or something not adjusted correctly, or a saw far out of being co-planar, etc.

 

[Allen Mattsen]

I have the Grizzly G0513X2BF with the 2hp motor, and prep many large, green logs with my circle cutting jig. I have never noticed, nor has the thought entered my mind that I need a more powerful motor.

This is great to hear! I'm having a hard time talking myself out of this saw. For the price point, capacity, and features, it seems like a good value.

 

[john lucas]

This is the first I've heard about melted tires also. I've had some crappy saws over the years and never had that problem. To create that kind of heat the blade has to be slipping so I would increase the blade tension. Also dont force the blade to cut. That can stall it in The wood and could make the blade slip on the tires and possibly create that much friction. Dull blades also do the same.

 

[robo hippy]

Well, I am also trying to figure out how some one could melt their tires on the bandsaw. "Totally and in all ways inconceivable!" and I do know what that word means. I don't think I have ever had a blade slip while cutting. I have jammed them up in the cut before, and that is mostly from having an uneven blank. Like John said, for me the first suspect would be not enough blade tension. A very dull blade could also contribute.

I have never used a circle cutting jig. I use a compass/divider to scribe the lines and cut free hand. If I wanted to make bowls all the same size, then I might use a circle jig, but I take the raw log and get the most bowls out of it I can, so they are all different.

robo hippy

 

[bbergst]

I have a Grizzly 17” with cast iron wheels. i highly recommended the cast iron wheels to provide the flywheel power. To cut green wood. Also a quality 3/8” hook tooth blade. The hook tooth blade provides a wider kerf and clears the chips.

 

[hockenbery]

i Listen to my tools. If something isn’t right with the bandsaw it’s hum will be replaced with warning noises.

Again, i have not heard of melting tires. if it were to happen it was surely accompanied with some cries of pain made by the saw.
when a machine is telling you to stop - pay attention - stop and fix the noise before proceeding.

A bandsaws is a simple machine - a drive wheel connected to a motor, a tensioning&tracking wheel,
a blade, upper guides, lower guides, and a table.
the tensioning, tracking, upper guides, lower guides, and table all need to be in adjustment for the saw to work at its best.

 

[Tim Tucker]

I know the cost of this one is above where you are targeting...But it is the best investment in a bandsaw I have ever made. And - I have owned a number of them. From 10" to 20"....But this Rikon has a 4 h.p. motor and all of the features that you would get on a Laguna...except the reliability of service, parts and warranty are better than with Laguna....and the price is less than Laguna.

Model 10-347: 18" Professional Bandsaw - RIKON Power Tools

The 18” Bandsaw has one of the most powerful motors in the line, 4HP with 19″ of re-saw capacity, which makes it ideal for doing a lot of heavy re-saw work.

www.rikontools.com

 

[Lou Jacobs]

The above Rikon saw sounds like quite a beast. I hope their manufacturing department is better than their copy editing/proofreading dept. Saw has a “patient pending spring loaded tool-less guide system”. I wonder if it’s inpatient or outpatient?

 

[Mike Johnson]

There are a number of big old machines out there that have the larger capacity that some folks are looking for, most of these machines are 3-phase, a VFD can be a simple way to power these older bigger machines when your your shop only has single phase power.

 

[Allen Mattsen]

I know the cost of this one is above where you are targeting...But it is the best investment in a bandsaw I have ever made. And - I have owned a number of them. From 10" to 20"....But this Rikon has a 4 h.p. motor and all of the features that you would get on a Laguna...except the reliability of service, parts and warranty are better than with Laguna....and the price is less than Laguna.

Model 10-347: 18" Professional Bandsaw - RIKON Power Tools

The 18” Bandsaw has one of the most powerful motors in the line, 4HP with 19″ of re-saw capacity, which makes it ideal for doing a lot of heavy re-saw work.

www.rikontools.com

That saw is definitely a beast, though its $3000 and perhaps more than I'd like to go but we'll see.

 

[Tim Tucker]

The above Rikon saw sounds like quite a beast. I hope their manufacturing department is better than their copy editing/proofreading dept. Saw has a “patient pending spring loaded tool-less guide system”. I wonder if it’s inpatient or outpatient?

Well... in today's world - that we can actually read websites in sort-of English is a plus.

 

[Tim Tucker]

That saw is definitely a beast, though its $3000 and perhaps more than I'd like to go but we'll see.

That is the manufacturers site and their recommended retail price. Once I settle on a piece of equipment as my choice - I shop it hard. And typically when I find the best price on-line, I go to my local Klingspor store and they will much it. It helps. Sometimes a lot.

 

[Donovan Bailey]

Your selection of a bandsaw probably comes down to what you plan on turning. You have a 2436 lathe so I'm guessing that you put a lot of thought into what led you to go for that size of lathe, why you needed that horsepower, cost justification, etc. The same logic goes into what features you select in a bandsaw. As a general rule, if you turn big things and maybe like making your own sizable lumber/slabs/blanks/etc. then you are going to move for a decision (like you did with your lathe) for some extra horsepower. To continue with general rules, I don't recollect running into anyone who regretted having too much horsepower on their bandsaw. I bought a 18BX. It is a great saw and I actually look for things to cut on it. I can stand a round "on end" and make surgical cuts with it...great fun. Robo...Laguna finally listened to you and designed this machine to remove/suck stringy cuttings. This is the first bandsaw that I have ever seen to do this.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

The Rikon 10-347 looks like a very capable machine. Maybe more than I would need, but it reminded me to add a quick tension lever to my previous list.

(I noticed that the detail picture shows a different tensioning hand wheel than the other photos).