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Automotive Polish

Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Messages
360
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3,483
Location
Strongsville, Ohio
Every now and then I hear comments on this forum that people use automotive polishes to enhance the sheen of a film finish. I am curious about this but am bewildered when I go to Autozone. There must be dozens of products, even from a single manufacturer; some have abrasives included, some have ratings describing the degree of abrasion. So my question is, can anyone give their recipe? What specific products? thanks
 
The only thing I want a high gloss on is my Christmas ornaments. For that I use the Beall Buffing system. Make sure there is no silicone in any wax you pick. Get that spread around your shop and you will have all kinds of issues with other clear finishes bonding. Commercial woodworking factories forbid all sorts of products used by employees to avoid silicone contamination. Skin creams, deodorants. etc.....
 
Been using Meguiare's compounds for many years. After wool (4-0 steel or gray/white synthetic) I used their No.2 fine cut cleaner followed with No. 9 swirl remover. All done either by hand or a lamb's wool bonnet on an v-s electric drill. I never use high speed or a true power buffing wheel as it's too easy to burn/craz a film finish. The Meguiare's products are all, IIRC, silicone-free so they are "repaintable" in case of a mistake.
 
Be aware that your finish must be perfect before you apply the automotive compounds. They fill any defects and often turn white. I generally only use them for fine pieces that need the best glossy finish. Started doing that after I saw Mark's pieces many years ago.
 
Be aware that your finish must be perfect before you apply the automotive compounds.
John: You're spot on but you didn't define "perfect" - success with automotive compounds depends on the coating you're compounding and how that coating is surfaced - the brand of the compound is secondary: Meguires, Wizard, 3M plus others will do a great job.
- THE COATING YOU'RE COMPOUNDING: Air dry coatings, from my experience, don't lend themselves to either fine sanding or compounding while isocyanates and lacquers do. In general, if your finish "pils or clogs", don't bother with compounding.
- SURFACE PREPARATION: I compound after sanding to 3000-grit - start with a wool buff on a 3" pneumatic and then go to a foam - gives a great "high luster" surface. There is a huge difference between "wet look" and a well done "high luster".

Back to John Lucas' comment: "Be aware your finish must be perfect..." He's also guilty of understatement: if the finish isn't perfect, every teeny tiny little flaw will be a beacon in the night.
All of which begs another question: Why bother? There are so many great techniques that look better at a fraction of the price/labor.
You don't want to be the guy that falls in love with a dimple and mistakenly marries the whole girl.
 
Michael, as most are saying, soft finishes don't compound well. If I'm after a gloss lacquer finish, I usually use compound. The below post has some more info, see my post #3. I'd bet the differences are minimal between the different manufacturers as to the compounds themselves. Some of the manufacturers seem to go out of their way to make it difficult to determine the order their products should be used. As in, weird names and no order of application. Meguiar's has a graphic depiction on the label so I can tell the coarseness (when to use it) of the compound. I need to be able to read it like I read sandpaper, so, their graphic just makes it easier for me to understand order of application.


From course to fine...
To fine.png From course.png
 
I use Meguiar’s as well. Usually use solvent lacquer as the finish, but have also used some water based poly and lacquer - they polish well but dont have near the chatoyance of solvent finishes.

Use an evaporative finish that burns in - melts into itself, and learn about “drop filling” with the spray gun.

I started years ago polishing auto finishes and then flatwork table tops. Tried many products, both polishes and applicators. Best applicators are different hardness foam discs, on a variable speed rotary device. I have 7” for auto/big surfaces used with a big polisher, 2” foam with vs drill for turnings. The foam affects material removal as much as the compound.

Leveling is critical. The final sanding grit depends on where you want to start with polishing. 400 gr at least, but going higher tends to result in a more perfect surface - generally I go to ~1200.

It is time consuming and can be frustrating. The better the sprayed surface is the easier it is to finish out.
 
Been using Meguiare's compounds for many years. After wool (4-0 steel or gray/white synthetic) I used their No.2 fine cut cleaner followed with No. 9 swirl remover. All done either by hand or a lamb's wool bonnet on an v-s electric drill. I never use high speed or a true power buffing wheel as it's too easy to burn/craz a film finish. The Meguiare's products are all, IIRC, silicone-free so they are "repaintable" in case of a mistake.
yup me too, been using them for a long time now
 
Every now and then I hear comments on this forum that people use automotive polishes to enhance the sheen of a film finish. I am curious about this but am bewildered when I go to Autozone. There must be dozens of products, even from a single manufacturer; some have abrasives included, some have ratings describing the degree of abrasion. So my question is, can anyone give their recipe? What specific products? thanks
What finish are you using, how are you applying it and what type of sheen do you want?
Let’s start there
 
Something else to keep in mind - automotive finishes and compounds are directed to that market we call "automobiles"
- Nobody rubs or brushes an automobile
- Nobody goes to Home Depot for paint to paint their car
Automotive compounds are designed for big Bubba to take the surface off the coating with his big, two-handled AC buffer - the instructions on the container assume the big buffer.

I use a girly-man, 3" pneumatic buffer that forces me to have a very light pressure and requires that I violate every instruction on the compound container. I will only buff a 3000-grit "perfect" surface - I use Wizards with a wool buff on the first pass and yellow-foam on the second pass. I've used the same Detroit Tool buffer, same Wizard compound, same wool buffer and same yellow-foam buffer for almost 15-years - took a while to get good results.
 

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What finish are you using, how are you applying it and what type of sheen do you want?
Let’s start there
For my "art" pieces, I want a high gloss sheen. I most often have used oil base poly, thinned with mineral spirits, and wiped on 5 or more thin coats. Wet sanding with 400 grit SiC paper after every 2-3 coats and after the last coat. Followed by Beall buffing. I have also used cellulose lacquer, most often from a rattle can, many coats, wet sanding frequently, followed by Beall buffing. Most recently I have been favoring Osmo Polyx again followed by buffing. I have been mostly happy with these results. But am always on the lookout for new ways to do things.
 
For my "art" pieces, I want a high gloss sheen. I most often have used oil base poly, thinned with mineral spirits, and wiped on 5 or more thin coats. Wet sanding with 400 grit SiC paper after every 2-3 coats and after the last coat. Followed by Beall buffing. I have also used cellulose lacquer, most often from a rattle can, many coats, wet sanding frequently, followed by Beall buffing. Most recently I have been favoring Osmo Polyx again followed by buffing. I have been mostly happy with these results. But am always on the lookout for new ways to do things.
Michael have you looked at Steve Sinner's method?
 
For my "art" pieces, I want a high gloss sheen. I most often have used oil base poly, thinned with mineral spirits, and wiped on 5 or more thin coats. Wet sanding with 400 grit SiC paper after every 2-3 coats and after the last coat. Followed by Beall buffing. I have also used cellulose lacquer, most often from a rattle can, many coats, wet sanding frequently, followed by Beall buffing. Most recently I have been favoring Osmo Polyx again followed by buffing. I have been mostly happy with these results. But am always on the lookout for new ways to do things.
If it works for you, that's a great place to start. There is high-gloss like your doing, then there is the sprayed on gloss. Where it looks like a thin coat of glass over the piece. You could do that with your current methods, but it would take15-20+ with a wipe on but sprayed is a better method. Rattle cans aren't great for this. They just spray too thin and it's hard to get it to flow. But spraying with a gun brings a whole new set of issues. A decent gun, a compressor that sprays dry clean air, personal safety equipment (which varies with the finish you're shooting) and spray booth or area you can spray without getting your car or killing the neighbors, and not creating a fire hazard.
With the buffed finish and 5 coats, it is easy to burn through it, but it is easy to repair. With most sprayed finishes, with multiple coats, it becomes really tough to repair.
A nice high gloss, you can move the piece around and see perfect reflections, no break in the finish and no orange peel.
As far as the sanding, ditch the silicon carbide paper. The black abrasive can be a problem and it isn't real flexible. Go with an Abralon, Abranet, Eagle, something that is a ceramic or alumina oxide. Sand between coats with 600. Final coat, determine the starting grit by how clean the finish is. I would go as high as 2000-4000 grit. The smoother the surface is, the easier it will buff. From there, probably white diamond and maybe carnauba. Don't use triploi or ZAM.
 
If it works for you, that's a great place to start. There is high-gloss like your doing, then there is the sprayed on gloss. Where it looks like a thin coat of glass over the piece. You could do that with your current methods, but it would take15-20+ with a wipe on but sprayed is a better method. Rattle cans aren't great for this. They just spray too thin and it's hard to get it to flow. But spraying with a gun brings a whole new set of issues. A decent gun, a compressor that sprays dry clean air, personal safety equipment (which varies with the finish you're shooting) and spray booth or area you can spray without getting your car or killing the neighbors, and not creating a fire hazard.
With the buffed finish and 5 coats, it is easy to burn through it, but it is easy to repair. With most sprayed finishes, with multiple coats, it becomes really tough to repair.
A nice high gloss, you can move the piece around and see perfect reflections, no break in the finish and no orange peel.
As far as the sanding, ditch the silicon carbide paper. The black abrasive can be a problem and it isn't real flexible. Go with an Abralon, Abranet, Eagle, something that is a ceramic or alumina oxide. Sand between coats with 600. Final coat, determine the starting grit by how clean the finish is. I would go as high as 2000-4000 grit. The smoother the surface is, the easier it will buff. From there, probably white diamond and maybe carnauba. Don't use triploi or ZAM.
Thanks for the advice. One question about sanding. You say to go to 2000-4000 grit. But I thought white diamond is equivalent to about 1500 grit. So why buff at all? I see John Tisdale and a few others in this thread prefer buffing with automotive polishes instead of the Beall system. Or alternatively, why not stop sanding at 400-600 grit and switch to buffing? In my experience Beall buffing can remove 400 grit scratches rather easily, especially from film finishes as opposed to bare wood. I wonder if I am missing something.
 
Thanks for the advice. One question about sanding. You say to go to 2000-4000 grit. But I thought white diamond is equivalent to about 1500 grit. So why buff at all? I see John Tisdale and a few others in this thread prefer buffing with automotive polishes instead of the Beall system. Or alternatively, why not stop sanding at 400-600 grit and switch to buffing? In my experience Beall buffing can remove 400 grit scratches rather easily, especially from film finishes as opposed to bare wood. I wonder if I am missing something.
I don't know what grit white diamond is and that likely varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. A buffer can be way too aggressive, burning through the finish to the wood necessitating repair or worse, reshooting. But buffing is easier. Most of us would feel that going to only 1500 isn't going to give us the depth of clarity you would get by going to 4000 and then polishing compounds.
With sanding, I feel you can gauge the amount of work required better, and you are able to not skip a grit phase. John uses the abrasives I sell, but I don't know which liquid polishes he uses. I have tried several but go back to 3m, they have three polishes that do a great job.
 
I use Wizard's Mystic Cut - I've evolved a process with it that works great.
That said, I will NOT say Wizards is superior to 3M or Meguires or that expensive Italian stuff. I think it important to know they are all AUTOMOTIVE which means they are designed for big bubba with his big AC buffer to buff an auto in a few minutes. All the compounds will work for us woodturners but with modifications "we have to figure out" - and once you stumble on a formula, don't screw with it.
Not sure how we can discuss "compounds" without talking what we're "compounding". I've used the same automotive clear-coat for over 15-years - it is applied to an ILVA sealer designed for wood. The ILVA sealer, properly prepared, presents a "show-car" surface to the clear-coat - it all comes together.
 
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