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anyone turning in a yurt?

J

JeffSmith

Joined
Aug 6, 2009
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Location
Lummi Island, WA
apologize for posting this to multiple forums, but I'm not finding much information on my problem. We've recently moved to a semi-remote, small island in the Pacific Northwest. Part of the plan when purchasing our new home was to build a 20 x 24 shop on the property adjacent to the house. Been going through the motions of getting started on construction - there needs to be some significant site prep - retaining wall and fill - to level the site for a post and frame building or stick framing as well. We're locating an engineer to plan and design the site prep. County needs permits for the fill since one corner winds up over 4 feet high. The cost of bringing materials over on the ferry (20 car, open ferry with weight restrictions) starts to ad up.

This weekend we were touring some of the local artist's studios (there's a significant number of artists locally - they hold studio tours on major holidays throughout the year). One studio was in a yurt situated in a somewhat similar situation to my site. It was a pleasant space that seemed to allow for many different configurations. A good conversation with the owner and a little homework online leads me to believe that I can build the platform easily - just a glorified deck, pour a concrete pad for the lathe, and put a 24' yurt on top that will easily withstand both wind and snow loads that we experience locally. Woodstove for heat, double doors both front and back for access, windows all around for light, and fully insulated. And it all fits within budget.

Now the question - anyone turn in a yurt? Know anyone who turns in a yurt? know anyone that has a woodworking shop of any kind in a yurt? Any experience whatsoever with yurts?
 
I know nothing about yurts - had to look that one up. I do know about fitting rectangular machines into a circular building. Make sure that you do your home work and draw out the machine layout on paper before buying your circle. BTW you have less sq ft. in a 24' circle than you do in a 20 x 24 rectangle.
 
Paul Gilbert said:
BTW you have less sq ft. in a 24' circle than you do in a 20 x 24 rectangle.
Click to expand...

Now that I come to my senses, you're right it is slightly smaller. I had been planning on replacing the footprint of a 20x24 building with a 27' foot yurt, not a 24' one. My mistake - original idiocy below...

If I'm doing the math right - there's actually more sqft in the 24' yurt at 572 than the 480 of the 20x24 footprint. Granted usable footage maybe slightly different, even so, there's still more room. I've drawn it out and there's room for the tablesaw/work table combo. the bandsaw, and a generous workbench. The lathe space along with the sharpening station alone occupies about 1/3 of the space. For flat work I use a portable planer and a benchtop jointer that stores under the bench. The drill press can occupy the odd corner - it's seldom used. I'm thinking I can put an enclosure for the DC under the floor.

It is beginning to pencil-out...
 
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JeffSmith said:
... If I'm doing the math right - there's actually more sqft in the 24' yurt at 572 than the 480 of the 20x24 footprint.....
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Maybe you're not doing your math right because there is 452 ft² in a 24 ft diameter circle, not 572 ft².

Think outside the box ... there are other shapes that you might consider that would be less costly. Also, rather than filling, have you considered excavating to have a split-level shop? By excavating, you generate your own fill. If you're on solid rock this might not be a great option.
 
Bill Boehme said:
Maybe you're not doing your math right because there is 452 ft[SUP]2[/SUP] in a 24 ft diameter circle, not 572 ft[SUP]2[/SUP].
Click to expand...

Maybe he is doing the math right for the the 27' yurt he is planning on making and mistakenly wrote 24' again. :)

I was going to build a yurt once, but never got a round to it. ;)
 
How about a dome?

JeffSmith said:
apologize for posting this to multiple forums, but I'm not finding much information on my problem. We've recently moved to a semi-remote, small island in the Pacific Northwest. Part of the plan when purchasing our new home was to build a 20 x 24 shop on the property adjacent to the house. Been going through the motions of getting started on construction - there needs to be some significant site prep - retaining wall and fill - to level the site for a post and frame building or stick framing as well. We're locating an engineer to plan and design the site prep. County needs permits for the fill since one corner winds up over 4 feet high. The cost of bringing materials over on the ferry (20 car, open ferry with weight restrictions) starts to ad up.

This weekend we were touring some of the local artist's studios (there's a significant number of artists locally - they hold studio tours on major holidays throughout the year). One studio was in a yurt situated in a somewhat similar situation to my site. It was a pleasant space that seemed to allow for many different configurations. A good conversation with the owner and a little homework online leads me to believe that I can build the platform easily - just a glorified deck, pour a concrete pad for the lathe, and put a 24' yurt on top that will easily withstand both wind and snow loads that we experience locally. Woodstove for heat, double doors both front and back for access, windows all around for light, and fully insulated. And it all fits within budget.

Now the question - anyone turn in a yurt? Know anyone who turns in a yurt? know anyone that has a woodworking shop of any kind in a yurt? Any experience whatsoever with yurts?
Click to expand...

There is a gentleman from the UK who has a series of videos and plans for geodesic domes.
 
My main concern would be humidity and outside temperatures in your area. Unless you have the stove going 24/7, you might have some problems with your equipment and wood stock. JMHO.
 
James Seyfried said:
Maybe he is doing the math right for the the 27' yurt he is planning on making and mistakenly wrote 24' again. :)

I was going to build a yurt once, but never got a round to it. ;)
Click to expand...

James, I'm sure that there is a rule against really bad puns. :rolleyes:

Deep down inside he really wants one that is 24 feet in diameter. :)

A lot of potential space is given up with a round structure. Instead of a rectangle, there are an unlimited number of alternate forms.

Some generalized examples are shown in the attached figure.


shopshape.jpg

BTW, a real yurt is a round tent made from animal hides, so Jeff, are you really thinking of a tent or a building that looks like one? My shop/studio is the great outdoors. No walls or ceiling to limit me ... just the size of the driveway apron in front of the garage and the length of the extension cord. Sometimes the weather also has a say in the matter. I have turned in freezing weather and currently the temperature is at or above 100° F during the day. So, any kind of roof would be nice some of the time.
 
Uhhh, not in the upper left corner...

Bill Boehme said:
[Snip] My shop/studio is the great outdoors. No walls or ceiling to limit me ... just the size of the driveway apron in front of the garage and the length of the extension cord. Sometimes the weather also has a say in the matter. I have turned in freezing weather and currently the temperature is at or above 100° F during the day. So, any kind of roof would be nice some of the time.
Click to expand...

Ahhhh, but have you turned in pouring down rain for 21 days in a row? I live on a (probably) neighboring island to James, trust me -- the Great Northwest (especially the "west" part) doesn't encourage outdoor woodworking. The lathe bed would rust while you were working.:D
 
Bill Boehme said:
James, I'm sure that there is a rule against really bad puns. :rolleyes:

Deep down inside he really wants one that is 24 feet in diameter. :)

A lot of potential space is given up with a round structure. Instead of a rectangle, there are an unlimited number of alternate forms.

Some generalized examples are shown in the attached figure.


View attachment 8773

BTW, a real yurt is a round tent made from animal hides, so Jeff, are you really thinking of a tent or a building that looks like one? My shop/studio is the great outdoors. No walls or ceiling to limit me ... just the size of the driveway apron in front of the garage and the length of the extension cord. Sometimes the weather also has a say in the matter. I have turned in freezing weather and currently the temperature is at or above 100° F during the day. So, any kind of roof would be nice some of the time.
Click to expand...

I saw this on the channel with the home search shows. They make these "yurts" and claoim they are insulated. Built on a platform. The tent part is made ofsite and just set up at your location. I that was in a northern climate. Interesting for living in but I do not think I would want a shop for when I throw turnings into the wall......LOL.
 
John Torchick said:
My main concern would be humidity and outside temperatures in your area. Unless you have the stove going 24/7, you might have some problems with your equipment and wood stock. JMHO.
Click to expand...

Amen to that. Here on Bainbridge Island, my shop's humidity if there's no heat is easily 70% during the winter. Wood stock might do OK, since we turners aren't seeking super-dry wood. I have a half-dozen smallish bowls that were green turned 5-6 years ago, that have sat in a box on the concrete floor since then. They are hardly warped, except for a very thin, very small saucer-like thing. Although, I guess if James is into segmented turning or other glue-ups, life could be cruel. Mold can be a problem on board surfaces. Rust is a crazy-bad problem.

My heating solution: pellet stove
 
The bed of my lathe can't rust ... it's stainless steel. But, I could get electrocuted. :rolleyes:

Several years ago we spent a couple of weeks in Washington state and the weather was beautiful bluebird skies and pleasant temperature. I'm sure that all this talk about rain and volcanic eruptions is just meant to keep tourists away.

St_Helens_4621_small.jpg
 
Bill Boehme said:
The bed of my lathe can't rust ... it's stainless steel. But, I could get electrocuted. :rolleyes:

Several years ago we spent a couple weeks in Washington state and the weather was beautiful bluebird skies and pleasant temperature. I'm sure that all this talk about rain is just to keep tourists away.


View attachment 8774
Click to expand...
Bill. As you know I live 100 - 150 miles north of those two. We get a lot of rain but down their storms seem to be more violent. Hardly any frost here anymore!!
Re the building, I would check out the idea of posts/ beam on the low side with a central beam as well supporting a 2x10 floor. Not difficult to build and you can skirt in the side hill ( basement!!) for (blank) storage. If you want a more rigid floor use 2x10 or 2x12 on 12" centers. You certainly don't need large doors at both ends. Cheers. Ron.
 
A bit off topic but this is what I heard from a person from the Pacific NW. What do you call three consecutive days of sunshine in Seattle? Summer! Spent some time in Oregon several years ago. Would love to go back to Oregon and Washington for a visit, though.
 
John Torchick said:
What do you call three consecutive days of sunshine in Seattle? Summer!
Click to expand...

Here on the island, they say that it only rains once a year up here - from September to May. This year we've been having awesome weather - warm and sunny from early spring through the summer. The winter is supposed to be mild as well this year. Not great for water reserves, and the snowpack is way down in the mountains.

I'm going to tour the company that builds yurts (Rainier Yurts) here locally to get a sense of what I can do. They are fully insulated - including an option for an engineered floor system that takes it to R-42. Wind loads of up to 100mph, snow loads depend on the size of the rafters you order, but well within the loads expected locally.

All that said, weekend before last found us in a windstorm with 50 - 60 knot winds and power out for three days. We have a generator for the refrigerator, but set an appointment for a new stand-by system...at least it wasn't cold.

I'm going to the manufacturer to discuss options for entry systems - I'd prefer 60" double doors at a minimum, and possibly something even wider if it's available. There are some limitations based on the attachment points for the tension ring.

While I haven't spent a lot of time in one, I did find that the idea of less usable space is not as much of a drawback as I had originally thought. You never find yourself backed into a corner. The company has engineered plans for the support platform and I'm planning to add external decks all the way around.
 
Good luck. The spec's sound impressive. You realize that we require photos of the finished yurt and the shop. Would it be any more cost-effective to build one of the steel buildings you see advertised in magazines?
 
John Torchick said:
Would it be any more cost-effective to build one of the steel buildings you see advertised in magazines?
Click to expand...
I have considered alternatives, but most require building a substantial retaining wall and copious amounts of fill to prep the site - both expensive propositions when you live on an island served by a 20 car ferry. The county requires the retaining system to be engineered and permitted, as well. The total cost of just bringing the site up to be able to start construction is well over 5 figures already.
The cost to build a well engineered, sturdy support structure for the structure is about than half of that.
 
Hey, Jeff, it's only money! Sounds like you have researched the project in detail. Looking to see the finished project.
 
I'd just make sure the floor is good and solid underneath to limit vibration. You might just be the first turner to work in a yurt. That's something to brag about! I can't wait to see the pictures.

Jeff Smith
 
Jeff Smith said:
I'd just make sure the floor is good and solid underneath to limit vibration. Jeff Smith
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This is getting confusing, Jeff - I'm not sure if I'm replying to myself...;)

I'm planning on springing for an engineered structural insulated panel system (SIPS) floor that's optional - it is essentially two sheets of 3/4" plywood bonded to 6" of rigid foam insulation board with 2x6 stringers every 16". The result is equivalent to a torsion box that is extremely rigid yet absorbs vibration and provides full insulation from below. Even with that, I'll add either additional support posts where the lathe will be placed or pour a full slab underneath depending on how everything feels as I go along.

While I'm getting excited, I'm also going to fully re-investigate the total cost of a comparable conventional construction just to make sure. While I'm in a hurry to get this done - no shop until it's up - either way, I won't be turning again until close to the first of the year.
 
JeffSmith said:
I'm going to tour the company that builds yurts (Rainier Yurts) here locally to get a sense of what I can do. They are fully insulated - including an option for an engineered floor system that takes it to R-42. Wind loads of up to 100mph, snow loads depend on the size of the rafters you order, but well within the loads expected locally.
Click to expand...

First off, I think this direction sounds great. Secondly, you’ve already spoken to one user; how about you ask Rainier Yurts for other folks you can speak with. Lastly, I may have missed it in other posts, did you mention a financial comparison between the conventional build vs. the yurt? (Just curious)
 
Owen Lowe said:
did you mention a financial comparison between the conventional build vs. the yurt? (Just curious)
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As near as I can tell, with all the options dded to the yurt, there's little difference in the cost over a post and frame building with the site prep. From the initial estimates I got early on, site prep and construction of a stick framed building would add somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 again to the total cost.
 
JeffSmith said:
.... While I'm in a hurry to get this done - no shop until it's up - either way, I won't be turning again until close to the first of the year.
Click to expand...

Look forward with great anticipation of what will become your dream shop, but don't feel rushed and force yourself to do things in a hurry.
 
Bill Boehme said:
Look forward with great anticipation of what will become your dream shop, but don't feel rushed and force yourself to do things in a hurry.
Click to expand...
Still need to investigate with the county building department, and get the platform built. Delivery on the kit is about three months out right now. That means that, best bet and the rain isn't too bad this winter I'll be turning in the new shop by the first of the year.
Keep in mind that through the sale of our old home the shop was basically put into storage at the end of may. We bought this place with the full knowledge that we'd need to build a shop as soon as possible. Plans for the post and frame solution got stalled with site planning issues.
Right now, on the island, all is on hold. The ferry is in drydock for scheduled maintenance for the next three weeks (happens every year at the end of summer) There is only a passenger-only ferry until then, so nothing can come over unless it fits in a carry-on bag. We leave a vehicle on both sides to get to work.

I'm experiencing separation anxiety big time...and, to my knowledge, I'm the only turner on the island, so I've got plenty of time to work on floor plans and equipment layout.
 
JeffSmith said:
This is getting confusing, Jeff - I'm not sure if I'm replying to myself...
Click to expand...

Will the real Jeff Smith please stand up! LOL I did a double take when I saw your name too. I had a shop once that had a 3/4" plywood floor and my PM3520b wound up putting dents in the floor about 1/4" deep or more after a while so I wonder if it makes sense to put something under the legs to prevent that? It sounds like the floor will be more than sturdy to handle the weight.

Jeff
 
Jeff Smith said:
Will the real Jeff Smith please stand up! LOL I did a double take when I saw your name too. I had a shop once that had a 3/4" plywood floor and my PM3520b wound up putting dents in the floor about 1/4" deep or more after a while so I wonder if it makes sense to put something under the legs to prevent that? It sounds like the floor will be more than sturdy to handle the weight.

Jeff
Click to expand...

Not only is that a good idea, it will spread the weight of the lathe out and reduce vibration. I would say at least a 4 x 4 pad, I think some are made specifically for appliances such as washers.
 
thoughts on flooring surface?

Gerald Lawrence said:
Not only is that a good idea, it will spread the weight of the lathe out and reduce vibration. I would say at least a 4 x 4 pad, I think some are made specifically for appliances such as washers.
Click to expand...
The SIPS panels aren't considered the finish flooring - more of a subflooring. I haven't decided on the finished flooring yet - any thoughts on an appropriate surface?
I was considering the possibility of pouring a slab with radiant heating (no coils under the lathe area. The house has it, it's a very nice heat. With a propane boiler, it seems pretty efficient so far...
 
Jeff, I have radiant heat in my shop and certainly would do it again. The only downside is that adding interior walls or bolting something to the floor has to be mapped out ahead of time. Does your site plan or building restrictions allow you to go underground with one side walk out. That would be the most energy efficient solution . Obviously it won't work too well if your island is a rock.
 
Can’t believe this got resurrected…but here’s an update. After visiting two yurts here on the island, I decided that, for my uses, a traditionally constructed stick frame building on concrete foundation walls was my best bet. I tracked down the architect that drew the house we bought and worked with him to design a shop that will fit the site, have the same style as our home and be acceptable to both the county building codes and the dept of natural resources that controls much on the island.

Sorry I can’t claim the title as first turner in a yurt. Ultimately, we wound up spending a little more but got a more flexible solution that fits my needs.

It took several months to get all stakeholders happy with the plan, find a builder with time in their schedules and get it all underway. Because our property is considered in a critical area by DNR, the siting became problematic and limited the footprint allowed. Wound up with about 600 sq ft down with a 400 sq ft office over. Its small but workable and, with about 5 years in, I love my work space. Lots of natural light, slider with a deck off the back, a good size near-standing crawlspace under for wood storage and room for dust collector and compressor.

It all looks out to the forest that surrounds us, the Salish Sea in front of us and the waterfall from the creek that runs to the right of this shot of the finished shop.
1687925502203.jpeg The photo is from the first studio tour weekend I participated in back in 2017 when the shop was still new - and cleaned up for visitors To see my work.
Not apparent in the photo is that the foundation sits on a side slope which means the crawl space has enough room - near standing - on one side. The floor Under the lathe legs is on doubled 2x12’s and there’s two 6x12 beams jacked up underneath the legs to forestall any possible vibration. It all works great.
 
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Umm, I think the proper and/or correct name for our area is the Pacific North Wet....... We can be very adaptable with our circumstances so we can have our play room handy. I think that for the long run, you will be happier with the stick frame. I would not consider a yurt to be a 'permanent' structure. Nice play area you have.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
Umm, I think the proper and/or correct name for our area is the Pacific North Wet....... We can be very adaptable with our circumstances so we can have our play room handy. I think that for the long run, you will be happier with the stick frame. I would not consider a yurt to be a 'permanent' structure. Nice play area you have.

robo hippy
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We’ve got a reputation for being wet, but, in reality, it actually rains more in New York than here. Our little island gets less than the mainland right across the water from us. Its more like the eternally damp Pacific Northwest where we are - keeps the forest green and the wildlife fed and happy.

The permanance was my deciding factor. When I’m done and gone, it’s a pretty simple process to convert to a guest house - it was designed with that in mind. The architect that drew it for me had drawn the original home we bought. He’s long retired, but lives locally and did all the construction drawings for us for a song and a dance. I didn’t do the framing myself, at that point I was still working half time in the Seattle area (3hours south), so we relied on a contractor to get the shell up. I did as much of the finishing work as I could to save money. The whole project, even with the premium that building on an island adds, was within the budget we were trying to hit.

Thankfully we got it all done well before the supply chain disruptions drove the cost of lumber and everything else through the roof.
 
In the hot tub at a local community center, discussing the weather, and some one commented that it rained as much in Santa Cruz as it did in Eugene, but the difference was that in Eugene, it took twice the time to get the same amount of rain..... Personally, I love the grey days.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
In the hot tub at a local community center, discussing the weather, and some one commented that it rained as much in Santa Cruz as it did in Eugene, but the difference was that in Eugene, it took twice the time to get the same amount of rain..... Personally, I love the grey days.

robo hippy
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I can attest to that - originally from Santa Cruz area, been a ‘native northwesterner‘ for a while now having moved here in the seventies. I still have family there And travel there as frequently as possible. I, too love the gray days, but I miss the summer fog season. We get very little fog up here by comparison.
 
Oh, another side note. When I built my 'forever' home and shop, the city told me I was limited on size of the 'outbuilding' and to build one the size I wanted, I had to have a 'living' space in it. That ended up okay, and my daughter lives in the apartment now. The rest of the building was made so it could be turned into a house after my birth certificate expires or I retire, which will probably happen at the same time...

robo hippy
 
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