Robust American Beauty vs Powermatic 3520c.......pros and cons

[hockenbery]

Hi Bill......There must be some difference. Why else would tool rests be available with different post lengths?

-----odie-----

The problems with post lengths is more not being able to use long posts in lower swing lathes.

With the longer posts you have a larger range above center.
I only set my rest above center for some scrapers an then it is only a 1/2 at most.
Might get a little more vibration from a short post since ther is less post below the locking mechanism.
Not usually a problem.

Conversely using a long post on a 16” lather ther are two issues.
Banjos with an in-line post hole the rest cannot get below center because they bottom out on the banjo locking rod.
With offset rests the long post is partly useable - the post sticks out the bottom - the rest can be positioned for lots of cuts but the center cannot be moved too close to ways so it can’t be positioned to hollow with the tool on the rest above the post.

 

[odie]

The problems with post lengths is more not being able to use long posts in lower swing lathes.

With the longer posts you have a larger range above center.
I only set my rest above center for some scrapers an then it is only a 1/2 at most.
Might get a little more vibration from a short post since ther is less post below the locking mechanism.
Not usually a problem.

Conversely using a long post on a 16” lather ther are two issues.
Banjos with an in-line post hole the rest cannot get below center because they bottom out on the banjo locking rod.
With offset rests the long post is partly useable - the post sticks out the bottom - the rest can be positioned for lots of cuts but the center cannot be moved too close to ways so it can’t be positioned to hollow with the tool on the rest above the post.

Hmmmm.....yeah, that must be so, Al.......it must have a lot to do with any individual's turning style.....and maybe bowl turning vs spindle turning. For myself, I don't go above center on exterior for bowl turning.....too much opportunity for severe catches that way. I do go slightly above center for interior of bowls, but it's more a matter of presentation, than it is tool rest height.

Interesting.......

-----odie-----

 

[hockenbery]

For myself, I don't go above center on exterior for bowl turning

Scraping on the outside below center Is best.

Cutting below center on the outside with gouge gets beginners in big trouble
I always keep the cutting edge at or above center on the outside of bowls.
Getting below center allows the wood to drive onto the cutting edge making the cut grabby or creating a catch.

I set the tool rest so the tip of the gouge is cutting at center with the handle level to the floor.

pull cut - I drop the handle way down my thigh and cut several inches above center.
push cut - I have the handle more at the top of the hip so I cut above center with a nice slicing angle
Scraping - tool level cutting on center handle at my side
Shear scrape- tool several inches above center handle moving free one hand on the tool the other on the ferrell
Shear cut - tool level cutting on the leading edge of the wing handle at my side tucked under my arm
A frame roughing cut- cutting edge above center handle at the top of my thighs both arms staring


All the above cuts are made by moving my body shifting weight from one foot to other and turning at the waist.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Hi Bill......There must be some difference. Why else would tool rests be available with different post lengths?

-----odie-----

Well actually the longer tool rest posts give me a greater range of use and the shorter ones limit me to using the tool horizontally.

 

[Damon McLaughlin]

I had three Robust tool rests that I used on my previous Jet 1640, they were the standard post version. I didn't like the limited range of movement with them on my AB so I sold them and bought the long post versions. The difference wasn't very much and the range of movement appears to be more appropriate for the AB.

 

[odie]

Scraping on the outside below center Is best.

Not always........

-----odie-----

 

[JeffSmith]

I had three Robust tool rests that I used on my previous Jet 1640, they were the standard post version. I didn't like the limited range of movement with them on my AB so I sold them and bought the long post versions. The difference wasn't very much and the range of movement appears to be more appropriate for the AB.

That’s the same problem I had. The dog leg took care of it. The rests that were too short were three smaller comfort rests.
The dog leg is pretty robust - have not noticed any additional vibration when using, but then I generally only use it on the short rests and very often on short spindles. Works great.

 

[hockenbery]

Not always........

-----odie-----

We don’t. Want people to get misled and hurt

Using a square or round nose scraper as a traditional scraper Outside a bowl Above center has two issues
1. When the bevel contacts the wood a big catch results. ( below center bevel contact is nearly impossible)
2. The fibers will be lifted more and a rougher surface results.

Shear scraping does work well above center on the outside of a bowl but that is another animal as the bevel is up an cannot contact the wood and the shear angle doesn’t usually lift fibers,

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Hi Bill......There must be some difference. Why else would tool rests be available with different post lengths?

-----odie-----

I ordered the long post because I was told that Brent recommended that and then cutting it to the length that fits your lathe. Probably most lathes will not handle the long post but better too much than not enough.

 

[odie]

We don’t. Want people to get misled and hurt

Using a square or round nose scraper as a traditional scraper Outside a bowl Above center has two issues
1. When the bevel contacts the wood a big catch results. ( below center bevel contact is nearly impossible)
2. The fibers will be lifted more and a rougher surface results.

Shear scraping does work well above center on the outside of a bowl but that is another animal as the bevel is up an cannot contact the wood and the shear angle doesn’t usually lift fibers,

I never said "above center", Al. There is below center, above center.....and center.

-----odie-----

 

[odie]

OK......I've made two bowls using the Robust banjo. I like it......very solid gripping the ways and tool rest.

-----odie-----

 

[Dan Bevilacqua]

Glad it worked out for you, Odie.

 

[Bill Boehme]

OK......I've made two bowls using the Robust banjo. I like it......very solid gripping the ways and tool rest.

Odie, you remind me of the Johnny Cash song about building a Cadillac one part at a time. By the time that you are done, you will have a complete Robust lathe.

 

[odie]

Odie, you remind me of the Johnny Cash song about building a Cadillac one part at a time. By the time that you are done, you will have a complete Robust lathe.

Ha,ha,ha......yep, as long as it gets me there!

View: https://youtu.be/18cW_yHo3PY
Maybe a little of this, too.......

View: https://youtu.be/3cQNkIrg-Tk

 

[odie]

As long as we're just messin' around......let me introduce to you this country's newest Marine, as of last Friday......my son!

Is my pride showing?

 

[Jon Minerich]

Odie,
Please say “Semper Fi” to your son from all us who followed the same path, many years ago. You should be proud!
Jon

 

[odie]

Odie,
Please say “Semper Fi” to your son from all us who followed the same path, many years ago. You should be proud!
Jon

Oh, you can bet I'm a proud daddy, Jon........

I don't know if it's allowed, because you know I was a dogface!

It's amazing, because it seems like only yesterday he looked like this:

 

[Jon Minerich]

Odie,
It is always OK for a Dad to be proud of his Son! Never forget all veterans are equal under our flag. I just happen to be partial to Marines.
My wife and I were looking at pictures of both our son and grandson. It is amazing how much they look alike! It also amazing and disappointing how fast they grow up. There is never enough time to demonstrate to our kids how proud they make us. Take every opportunity you can.
Jon

 

[odie]

Odie,
It is always OK for a Dad to be proud of his Son! Never forget all veterans are equal under our flag. I just happen to be partial to Marines.
My wife and I were looking at pictures of both our son and grandson. It is amazing how much they look alike! It also amazing and disappointing how fast they grow up. There is never enough time to demonstrate to our kids how proud they make us. Take every opportunity you can.
Jon

What I meant was......is it considered appropriate for someone who was never a Marine, to give a "Semper Fi"?

 

[Jon Minerich]

Sure!

 

[Lamar Wright]

Odie.....That's a fine and fit looking Marine! I know you're a very proud Dad and with good reason. Reminds me of my son when he completed basic training in San Antonio for the Air Force. Congratulations my friend.

 

[GRJensen]

Odie ... Tell your son an old soldier says 'Thank You for serving our country'!

 

[Donovan Bailey]

What I meant was......is it considered appropriate for someone who was never a Marine, to give a "Semper Fi"?

Congratulations, Odie. I'm Army, and I never hesitate to recommend a Service enlistment to a young person. The benefits he will get for serving our country are going to be source of pride for him (and you) for the rest of his life...whether he decides to make a career out it or not.

 

[odie]

Update: My son has graduated from his military training school, and is now a crewman on an AAV:

For myself, I've been working long hours in the shop all this year. Most days, it depends on how long I can stay on my feet! The Sweet 16 banjo has been great.....really like that locking mechanism for the tool rest. I've just ordered the other banjo from Robust.....the one without the offset tool rest position. I find that when I have a large bowl that requires the banjo to be in-between the headstock and workpiece, the offset banjo doesn't work very well.


Now that I have two Sweet 16 banjos, it would be logical to think about getting the whole Sweet 16 lathe, at some point.....! The 16" swing handles 99.99% of the wood I typically use, and for those times it doesn't.......the Sweet 16 can do!

However, I'm having a hard time justifying the expense, since this old Woodfast lathe does everything I ask of it.

-----odie-----

 

[Donovan Bailey]

Update: My son has graduated from his military training school, and is now a crewman on an AAV:
View attachment 29913View attachment 29914
For myself, I've been working long hours in the shop all this year. Most days, it depends on how long I can stay on my feet! The Sweet 16 banjo has been great.....really like that locking mechanism for the tool rest. I've just ordered the other banjo from Robust.....the one without the offset tool rest position. I find that when I have a large bowl that requires the banjo to be in-between the headstock and workpiece, the offset banjo doesn't work very well.
View attachment 29906

Now that I have two Sweet 16 banjos, it would be logical to think about getting the whole Sweet 16 lathe, at some point.....! The 16" swing handles 99.99% of the wood I typically use, and for those times it doesn't.......the Sweet 16 can do!

However, I'm having a hard time justifying the expense, since this old Woodfast lathe does everything I ask of it.

-----odie-----

Absolutely great news about your son. He certainly deserves all of our congratulations. In regard to your lathe...I think that you are now wrestling with an issue that eventually impacts all lathe owners and it fully qualifies as a "conundrum" (a great word). It happens to all lathe owners but on a delayed or slower basis, however, we watch it happen to nearly everyone in America on a daily basis in regard to our decision to buy a new car/truck. We all say...it works fine, but is it time to get rid of my old clunker? "Often" (maybe even most of the time) we talk ourselves into trading-up and I am pretty sure that the math/economics/expense don't have a dominant role at some point (within reason) in helping us make that decision. The unvarnished truth is that we usually make a decision to trade-up because we talk ourselves into it and our old clunker would probably have lasted another X+ years if we were pressed to be truthful in some unguarded moment. That said, it is confession time because I went through the same "conundrum" you are dealing with...and I too stopped doing the math at some point in the process and now I absolutely love my American Beauty.

 

[odie]

Absolutely great news about your son. He certainly deserves all of our congratulations. In regard to your lathe...I think that you are now wrestling with an issue that eventually impacts all lathe owners and it fully qualifies as a "conundrum" (a great word). It happens to all lathe owners but on a delayed or slower basis, however, we watch it happen to nearly everyone in America on a daily basis in regard to our decision to buy a new car/truck. We all say...it works fine, but is it time to get rid of my old clunker? "Often" (maybe even most of the time) we talk ourselves into trading-up and I am pretty sure that the math/economics/expense don't have a dominant role at some point (within reason) in helping us make that decision. The unvarnished truth is that we usually make a decision to trade-up because we talk ourselves into it and our old clunker would probably have lasted another X+ years if we were pressed to be truthful in some unguarded moment. That said, it is confession time because I went through the same "conundrum" you are dealing with...and I too stopped doing the math at some point in the process and now I absolutely love my American Beauty.

Hey, I hear ya, Donovan.....

Note: I've replace the motor and controller about 10 years ago, and the headstock bearings about 2 years ago.......what else is there to wear out? The Woodfast is actually my third lathe, although I've had it for 27 years now!

But.....you know it, and I know it.....that I'd be happy with a new lathe, but I just don't see where any improvement in my lathe turning results are in the cards!

This doesn't mean I won't get a new lathe......only I'm having the "conundrum" you speak of!

Yes, Ken is my pride and joy......I couldn't have asked for a better son!

-----odie-----

 

[hockenbery]

Congratulations to your son I wish him well.

I used a 20” Woodfast for many years. Good lathe.
Big difference when I go a ONEWAY 2436.

The wood fast will do everything.
The ONEWAY does it all better.

The robust Scout has a number of sit down position options if standing becomes an issue

 

[odie]

Congratulations to your son I wish him well.

I used a 20” Woodfast for many years. Good lathe.
Big difference when I go a ONEWAY 2436.

The wood fast will do everything.
The ONEWAY does it all better.

The robust Scout has a number of sit down position options if standing becomes an issue

Thanks, Al.....

If I were to buy a new lathe right at this moment, it would be the Robust Sweet 16.....with a nod to the PM 3520c! I do have a steady rest that would adapt to the S16 quite nicely, though......

Right now, I'm waiting for delivery on the second S16 banjo with the inline tool rest receptacle. This will increase my ability to turn to max diameter. I have several 16" bowl blanks that have been on the shelf for some time now, and I'm anxious to put the new banjo to the test. (Might have to cut down a little, so they clear the bedways, but If I remember correctly, the actual swing on my Woodfast is just slightly over 16".....we'll see about that when the time comes!)

-----odie-----

 

[John Torchick]

I own the 3520A and have turned on several Robust machines. I love the Robust. Everything just works a little bit better a d they have the best swing away tailstock in the business. That being said the 3520C is definitely a step up from mine. It's all little things but they add up. The tool rest lock is better, the quill feed is an Acme thread. Much faster and you will never wear out those threads. In reality it's like the difference between a Ford and a BMW. Both get you there but the it's a little more fun in the Beemer.

Unless the Ford is a Shelby conversion. Zoom! Believe it or not, my parents were in their 70s and traded for a Mustang GT. Got to drive it from FL to TN.

 

[Dennis Weiner]

Odie, keep an open mind and if you “turn” (your head) your brains may fall out on this one.

I own a 2436 oneway since 2000. I still smile every day when I see it. The other day I visited a club member who just got the Languna 2436. I were in the market, I would purchase it for 3900. I also dislike the mustard color. I don’t think I would feel good looking At it everyday!
A word about the swing away tailstock: I do hollow forms and I often stand at he exact location of the swing away. I think I would trip over the robust. I built a rollaway lathe bed with scrap plywood, 2x4s
,cutting board and a small HFT $7.99 dolly! My tailstock goes in the corner somewhere along with my second banjo. Has shelves for additional storage! I have seen a lot of creative storage ideas from other woodturners.
I like the 1w live center over the robust. Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... I think I would trip over the robust....

I think that you would have to be a real high stepper to trip over the tailstock.

Now, talking about paint color ... that's a truly serious consideration ... nearly drove me towards Harbor Freight green.

 

[odie]

Odie, keep an open mind and if you “turn” (your head) your brains may fall out on this one.

I own a 2436 oneway since 2000. I still smile every day when I see it. The other day I visited a club member who just got the Languna 2436. I were in the market, I would purchase it for 3900. I also dislike the mustard color. I don’t think I would feel good looking At it everyday!
A word about the swing away tailstock: I do hollow forms and I often stand at he exact location of the swing away. I think I would trip over the robust. I built a rollaway lathe bed with scrap plywood, 2x4s
,cutting board and a small HFT $7.99 dolly! My tailstock goes in the corner somewhere along with my second banjo. Has shelves for additional storage! I have seen a lot of creative storage ideas from other woodturners.
I like the 1w live center over the robust. Good luck with whatever you choose.

You know, Dennis........I know the Oneway lathe is a great lathe. The only reason I wouldn't consider it, is Oneway is too subborn to offer it with 1 1/4 x 8tpi spindle.......and I won't consider an extension to run all my accessories. Funny, because they offer 1 1/4 x 8tpi in their chuck inserts!

-----odie-----

 

[Lamar Wright]

Update: My son has graduated from his military training school, and is now a crewman on an AAV:

Great picture of your son Odie....I know you are proud of him !

 

[Bill Boehme]

You know, Dennis........I know the Oneway lathe is a great lathe. The only reason I wouldn't consider it, is Oneway is too subborn to offer it with 1 1/4 x 8tpi spindle.......and I won't consider an extension to run all my accessories. Funny, because they offer 1 1/4 x 8tpi in their chuck inserts!

-----odie-----

Well, for sure they're not Burger King ("Have it your way," if you remember their ad campaign many years ago). I once called Oneway and spoke to Kevin about a special order for a 1¼ X 8 RH only spindle adapter and not the standard off the shelf RH/LH adapter. He said that I would need the LH thread if I "move up to a lathe with an outboard spindle". (Note: none of their lathes have 1¼ X 8 RH or LH spindle threads). The larger Oneway lathes have M33 X 3.5 spindle threads both inboard and outboard. They do make a RH only adapter for the M33 X 3.5 spindle threads, so go figure that one. I generally like their products, but some things they do don't seem to make sense.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Odie, congratulations on raising such a great son. Tell him I say thank you for his service. Aloha

 

[odie]

Odie, congratulations on raising such a great son. Tell him I say thank you for his service. Aloha

Thank you Emiliano........I would imagine there are many parents on these forums who can relate to the pride, and ultimately, the internal satisfaction I feel for having a direct influence in the making of the kind of young man I feel my son has become.

-----odie-----

 

[hockenbery]

a 1¼ X 8 RH only spindle adapter and not the standard off the shelf RH/LH adapter. He said that I would need the LH thread if I "move up to a lathe with an outboard spindle". (Note: none of their lathes have 1¼ X 8 RH or LH spindle threads)

I have two lathes with 1.25x8 threads both have LH outboard spindles but one is 1x 8. And the other 1.125 x 8
I have ONEWAY adapters for both for the vacuum

 

[Dennis Weiner]

Well, for sure they're not Burger King ("Have it your way," if you remember their ad campaign many years ago). I once called Oneway and spoke to Kevin about a special order for a 1¼ X 8 RH only spindle adapter and not the standard off the shelf RH/LH adapter. He said that I would need the LH thread if I "move up to a lathe with an outboard spindle". (Note: none of their lathes have 1¼ X 8 RH or LH spindle threads). The larger Oneway lathes have M33 X 3.5 spindle threads both inboard and outboard. They do make a RH only adapter for the M33 X 3.5 spindle threads, so go figure that one. I generally like their products, but some things they do don't seem to make sense.

As much as I love the lathe, I agree with you that some of their products you have to ask yourself "what were they thinking?" On the other hand, Their service has always been outstanding and supportive.
Robust realized that accommodating shops with multiple lathe manufacturers that had euro m33 x3.5 spindles was good business.
Burger King you can have it your way. Oneway is, well, sometimes oneway.

 

[Glenn Lefley]

Heh,heh,heh......well robo, I do dumb things like that all the time......sometimes I have a hard time admitting just how dumb I can be! Ha,ha!

Why not put a call out to all the turning clubs in your area and see if you can get a used ab. I got both my Oneway lathes that way for less than 1/2 price and never had a problem with either. And my big Oneway if I added all the value of the accessories I got with it, the lathe was actually free.

 

[Damon McLaughlin]

Odie, while I don't have a Sweet 16 I do have an American Beauty. My offer still stands, if you ever find yourself in my neck of the woods you're more than welcome to stop in and turn for a day and try it out.