Want hardened tool rest? A simple experiment you might want to try.......

[Odie]

I recently purchased some Robust tool rests with the hardened steel top surface. Prior to making the purchase, I took a hardened drill bit, secured in a vise.......and did some comparing of the resistance to my lathe tools being rubbed over the drill bit, and over the surface of my other tool rests. (A 1/2" diameter, or larger bit, will work better than a small drill bit.) The top hardened surface of the Robust tool rests appear to be drill rod tack welded to a steel backing plate......very similar to a drill bit.

What was noticeable, is none of my (currently fourteen) tool rests are as hard as the drill bit, and all offer more resistance to a smooth rub between my lathe tools and the hardened bit. Some are harder, and better than others.......my Oneway tool rests are pretty hard and tools glide very well over their surface. The original cast metal Woodfast rests that came with my lathe, are the worst. I haven't used these much in recent years, but after seeing how much resistance to the tool in the experiment......I believe they are pretty much retired for good!

I really didn't have a problem getting a very good surface with most of the tool rests I've been using, but the new Robust rests are just a little bit better. Don't think they will add any benefit at all, for most of my turning........with the exception of the final cuts prior to sanding. There, I see a benefit that very well may prove to be something I can't live without! The final cuts, both with gouges and shear scraping techniques, are done very very delicately......and the hardened top surface of the Robust tool rests seems to aid in transitional smoothness, or tool control, considerably.

The Robust tool rests are expensive, and gave me a "knee-jerk" reaction.......but, like most things.......long after you forgot about the money you spent, things that add to the quality of your life, take on an aspect that is blind to monetary considerations.......:cool2:

At this point, I'm not completely sure as to how much benefit will be realized with the Robust tool rests, but I'm convinced that my overall turning experience will see an improvement by having them.

Anyway.....enjoy your lathe, everyone......

ooc

 

[robo hippy]

I have been using the Robust rests for 3 years, and prefer them to any others I have used, including my Oneway bowl rests (Robust bowl rests are fairly new). The almost frictionless gliding you can do with your tools is easy, and makes cuts go smoother. Now, when I use a cast rest, it feels like my tools are on sand paper.

The drill rod is epoxied on, not welded. Some thing to do with tempering the steel.

robo hippy

 

[Odie]

I have been using the Robust rests for 3 years, and prefer them to any others I have used, including my Oneway bowl rests (Robust bowl rests are fairly new). The almost frictionless gliding you can do with your tools is easy, and makes cuts go smoother. Now, when I use a cast rest, it feels like my tools are on sand paper.

The drill rod is epoxied on, not welded. Some thing to do with tempering the steel.

robo hippy

Yep, that's what I'm finding, too, Robo Hippy........

I guess I'm a little late to this party!.........Heh,heh,heh!

Some of my current tool rests are pretty hard, and the difference in tool performance/smoothness between them and the Robust rest, is less noticeable. With these, I wouldn't call the difference, a dramatic difference......but, certainly the Robust is better. I don't believe this discovery will mean I'll retire all my other rests, because there are so many elements of turning that take place before that very final cut, prior to sanding. For those times when absolute perfection of cut isn't as important as shaping a profile, I really don't see where the Robust is any better.....For one thing, these Robust tool rests will NEVER see use while roughing out raw unseasoned bowls!

Yes, with the painted surface, it was hard to tell that it was epoxied, instead of welded. As you say, probably has something to do with altering the heat treating of the hardened rod.

I do have one question: What is the intended purpose of the "low profile" rests that Robust offers? My best guess is they may be intended for lathes with smaller swing capacity, and would allow for lower range of movement.....but, I didn't see any official explanation of why they are being offered.

thanks......

ooc

 

[MichaelMouse]

Guess it's one of those turning myths that steel on cast iron slides real fine. Something to do with the carbon content of the cast, is what's normally mentioned.

http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tables/frictioncoefficients.htm Wax that steel up, maybe.

 

[Bill Boehme]

..... What is the intended purpose of the "low profile" rests that Robust offers?

If you turn very delicate finials where you need to get your fingers around the rest, a small profile makes it much easier to get the job done without developing hand strain.

 

[robo hippy]

Odie,
Why wouldn't you use your Robust rests on large wet blanks? They work excellently. Unless you think they are too pretty to use, and should be on display. I tend to use and abuse my toys. Well, except for my guitars.

robo hippy

 

[Odie]

Odie,
Why wouldn't you use your Robust rests on large wet blanks? They work excellently. Unless you think they are too pretty to use, and should be on display. I tend to use and abuse my toys. Well, except for my guitars.

robo hippy

Because the Oneway rests are stainless!

That's basically what I was thinking when I made the comment you are responding to.

I now have 14 tool rests of various manufacturers, so there's no reason to not use the one best suited for the job......and, in this case, the Robust may do the job well, but I have others that will do the job a little better. It looks to me that I have no tool rests that will do what the Robust is designed to do better than it can do.......so, when it comes to doing that which it does best, I'll always choose the Robust.

If you've noticed, the curved portion of the working surfaces of the Robust, compared to the Oneway represents a theoretical diameter smaller than the latter. I can see where there will be times when that difference in curvature will suit a particular need. I have straight steel tool rests that are of larger diameter shaft.....there again, will suit different needs. Some are longer, and some are shorter.....

Anyway......you get the idea.

ooc

 

[robo hippy]

I have had issues with rust on the tool posts, but not the bars. Also some rust in the shaft on the banjo. The one thing that I don't like about The Robust comfort bowl rests is the arc of them. Both are at 12 inches. This is a bit small for me. I can't remember what the ones on the Oneway are, but some thing like 14 to 16 inches. On the inside of a bowl, I prefer the tool rest to be more of a J shape rather than an arc of a circle, because that to me fits into the inside of a bowl better. With the Robust inside rest, there is NO vibration at all when working out at the tip of it. With the Oneway, there is, at least if you are doing heavy stock removal. Given the complexity of heating the drill rod, bending it, then retempering it, probably won't get a J shape. Also, if you look at the under support for it, that would have to be a J shape as well, and that would involve compound miter/radius angles.

Sigh, just can't have everything. I can easily see having several bowl rests, both inside and outside, of several radii, and J shapes.

robo hippy

 

[john lucas]

I love my Robust tool rest but then I special ordered it. I have a 10 3/4" mini tool rest installed on a 1" post for my powermatic. I wanted this one because I can wrap my fingers around it for small turnings. It still handles the larger turnings quite well.
It's more than just the top rod. I like the shape. Being able to glide your fingers along the rest under the steel rod really helps some parts of the turning.
I'm going to have to order a couple more because my older tool rests almost never get used anymore.

 

[robo hippy]

I have wondered why no one has made a tool rest that is more like a D, with the flat part up, and the arc under, and no post in the middle to work around.

robo hippy

 

[john lucas]

Reed I did have one years ago. When I was doing a lot of spindles I made a tool rest. One end fit in the Banjo. The other end just sat on the lathe bed with a bar inbetween the two that worked as my tool rest. It was about 24" long if I remember correctly. I could work all up and down it.

 

[john lucas]

I forgot to mention the loose side was sitting in a wooden banjo but the height was fixed so it wasn't locked in, it just sat on the bed through a hole in the wooded block. The wooden banjo let me move the tool rest in and out but not up and down. If I make another one I'll probably fabricate a metal banjo so I can adjust the height as well.

 

[DOCworks]

I too like the Robust tool rests, I also make and use the 1" round stock tool rests for my 3520b and Jet 1220, mostly for roughing out. I'm always smoothing them off due to rust and nicks, but it should be easy enough to harden the bar either before welding to the shaft or after. I've got a small furnace that gets up too about 2400 deg so that should do it. I'll see if that makes a difference on ease of use.

 

[jffink]

Robust low profile tool rest

I have two Robust "comfort" rests, and recently ordered a 6" low profile rest for my Nova 1624-44. I ordered the 3 3/4" post length that the Robust "selection matrix" recommends for my lathe, but sent it back to Craft Supplies to exchange it for the 5 1/4" post version. The 3 3/4" post "comfort" rest works fine on my Nova, but the overall height of the low profile rest is substantially less than the height of the comfort rest. Consequently, the 3 3/4" post low profile rest can't be raised far enough above center for my needs — I'm not sure that it went even 1/4" above center before losing contact with the locking screw. The drawback of the 5 1/4" post is that it can drop down through the bottom of the banjo and hit the lathe bed rails. An easy fix for this problem is to affix a collar around the top of the post to keep it from dropping too far.

For anyone thinking about ordering any aftermarket rest, be sure to measure both the post length and overall height of your stock tool rest, and search out the corresponding stats on the rest you are thinking about buying. Then decide whether the rest will suit your particular needs. Also, keep in mind that a manufacturer can't be expected to make a limited number of models that will work optimally for all brands of lathes.

 

[Don Geiger]

Robust's rods are now welded

Hi Robo:
The early Robust rests, such as your's that are 3 years old, had rods that were expoxied into place.
More recently the rods are welded into place.


Don

I have been using the Robust rests for 3 years, and prefer them to any others I have used, including my Oneway bowl rests (Robust bowl rests are fairly new). The almost frictionless gliding you can do with your tools is easy, and makes cuts go smoother. Now, when I use a cast rest, it feels like my tools are on sand paper.

The drill rod is epoxied on, not welded. Some thing to do with tempering the steel.

robo hippy

 

[Odie]

I have two Robust "comfort" rests, and recently ordered a 6" low profile rest for my Nova 1624-44. I ordered the 3 3/4" post length that the Robust "selection matrix" recommends for my lathe, but sent it back to Craft Supplies to exchange it for the 5 1/4" post version. The 3 3/4" post "comfort" rest works fine on my Nova, but the overall height of the low profile rest is substantially less than the height of the comfort rest. Consequently, the 3 3/4" post low profile rest can't be raised far enough above center for my needs — I'm not sure that it went even 1/4" above center before losing contact with the locking screw. The drawback of the 5 1/4" post is that it can drop down through the bottom of the banjo and hit the lathe bed rails. An easy fix for this problem is to affix a collar around the top of the post to keep it from dropping too far.

For anyone thinking about ordering any aftermarket rest, be sure to measure both the post length and overall height of your stock tool rest, and search out the corresponding stats on the rest you are thinking about buying. Then decide whether the rest will suit your particular needs. Also, keep in mind that a manufacturer can't be expected to make a limited number of models that will work optimally for all brands of lathes.

Probably the best way to handle the post length issues, is to always order the longest post and hacksaw it to the specific length you need for your lathe.

ooc

 

[DOCworks]

To jffink:
You could also just glue a piece of rubber to the bottom of the post that way it won't hurt the ways and you can still drop it down if the banjo positioned so the post won't hit the bed. Just a thought.
Bill

 

[Cory Norgart]

You can harden yourself

If you want to harden your toolrest, just heat it red hot with an oxy-aceteylene torch, then dip it in transmission fluid. The more you heat and dip, the harder your steel becomes. I have experimented with this several times being a pipefitter/welder, it works everytime, many different types of steel.

 

[hughie]

horses for courses

[

Guess it's one of those turning myths that steel on cast iron slides real fine. Something to do with the carbon content of the cast, is what's normally mentioned.

I think it will slide well, but then tools will on any smooth polished surface. The draw back for me on cast iron is that its soft in comparision to steel and so you need to pay attention to the edge on a regular basis.

I have both cast iron and hardened steel and have broken my cast iron twice and have had to weld them back together. As yet no steel has bent let alone break on me.

 

[MichaelMouse]

[

I think it will slide well, but then tools will on any smooth polished surface. The draw back for me on cast iron is that its soft in comparision to steel and so you need to pay attention to the edge on a regular basis.

Only if you let the tools slam into it. I'm an overhander, so the "regular attention" my rest gets is adjustment to keep it close to the work. Interestingly enough, polished surfaces are said to have higher static coefficients because the molecules interact more intimately on polished surfaces. Merely wanted to rebut the statement that cast has a higher coefficient of friction than hardened steel in the interest of accuracy.

Subjectively, I find the work itself gives more resistance to the tool's passage than drag on the rest.

 

[hughie]

No problems, just my observation, I turn quite lot of dry hardwood burls and they are tough in the rough out stage