Tools: What is the difference?

[Isaac Litster]

I have good tools, and I have bad tools, but as someone who has only been turning seriously for a year, I am not sure what the differences are in some tools. I have a Thompson bowl gouge, but I also have the cheapest Benjamin's Best and unnamed tools. The bowl gouge seems to be great, but the scrapers, skews, and gouges from Benjamin's Best seem pretty good too. I know Thompson uses the best steel and has great service, refined machining, and to some degree a big name, but how is it that I can get two big scrapers on Amazon for $50 (PSI Ben's Best), but a Thompson one without a handle costs two or three times as much? I've heard that m2 hss is optimal (aside from the magic hss that Doug Thompson uses), but how can there be so much difference in cost from a scraper from PSI vs something like Craft Supplies USA or Robert Sorby? What really makes a tool bad if it is m2 hss? The handle? The consistency? The service? The name brand? I want a bowl scraper and a bowl NRS, and the Amazon deal seems unbeatable in price vs. getting steel blanks of that size. Sorry if this is a newbie question.

 

[Brian Gustin]

I have good tools, and I have bad tools, but as someone who has only been turning seriously for a year, I am not sure what the differences are in some tools. I have a Thompson bowl gouge, but I also have the cheapest Benjamin's Best and unnamed tools. The bowl gouge seems to be great, but the scrapers, skews, and gouges from Benjamin's Best seem pretty good too. I know Thompson uses the best steel and has great service, refined machining, and to some degree a big name, but how is it that I can get two big scrapers on Amazon for $50 (PSI Ben's Best), but a Thompson one without a handle costs two or three times as much? I've heard that m2 hss is optimal (aside from the magic hss that Doug Thompson uses), but how can there be so much difference in cost from a scraper from PSI vs something like Craft Supplies USA or Robert Sorby? What really makes a tool bad if it is m2 hss? The handle? The consistency? The service? The name brand? I want a bowl scraper and a bowl NRS, and the Amazon deal seems unbeatable in price vs. getting steel blanks of that size. Sorry if this is a newbie question.

As a general rule, I tend to suggest that one may want to get the cheaper tools until they become comfortable with tool control, and understand and decide on a favored profile - Benjamins Best tools are honestly quite good, However every so often you might run across one with a quality defect or flaw (poor quality steel, brittle steel, chips, breakage, etc) but I have had Zero problems with my BB tools. The reasoning behind it is, Until you have settled on your own personal favored style and grinding profiles, you may find a need to change up your grinds perhaps several times, and it is perhaps easier on the pocket book to be grinding away cheap steel - Eventually you may want a more consistent higher quality steel that will hold an edge and a profile - once you settle on a grind you are happy with, it's much cheaper in the long run - keeping an edge sharp really doesnt need much griding , so your tools will last far longer , making it worth while to invest in higher grade steels (and/or handles) - The BB tools, I don't especially like their handles (and they may vary depending on if you buy then singly or in sets- usable length of the steel may vary as well, I have found - 3 different BB 1/2 inch bowl gouges - One came in a set and had a much shorter handle and much shorter usable tool length in order to fit into the kit box with the other 7 tools!) - But handles can be knocked off and your own turned handles installed...

As an alternative, I might suggest also checking out Hurricane - which are a little step up from BB, but still not as good as the top names (It's in the consistent quality of the steel) but to be honest, nothing really wrong with the Benjamins Best tools, especially on a budget - And if you have not used a particular tool before, take it from me, you're far better off buying the cheaper version of the tool first - if you end up finding you don't care for it (maybe you prefer another type of tool instead, etc.) you're not going to be $100 out of pocket , and you can take that cheaper tool and save it back, perhaps regrind it into something else (negative rake scraper? Tenon scraper? Captive Ring scraper?) that you may or may not find yourself enjoying using... Then once you know you like the tool and use it enough that you eventually have ground/sharpened it to end of life, by that time you may have enough wood chips under the belt to want to get a Thompson or Sorby or Crown...

 

[hockenbery]

In any bussines cost is - materials, labor, machine time, shipping, storage, profit, maybe some development expense

I have 3 thompson gouges. Two are the Jamieson gouges Thompson makes.
Also have a Robust gouge and a Crown PM gouge
Great bowl gouges that I use the most of the time.

The rest of my tools are HSS - Henry Taylor, Packard , Crown…
Some of my scrapers are woodcraft - a long time ago they sold flat HSS bars with tangs of various widths and thicknesses.
Like other turners, I put handles on them and shaped the scrapper edge I wanted.

I see no compelling reason to stop using my HSS spindle tools and scrapers.

When I turn a bowl. I just use the jamieson bowl gouges and a 3/8 packard spindle gouge on most.
Occasionally curly grain in the bottom will not let me get a clean cut so I resort to a round nose scraper before I cut through the bottom. My go to round nose scraper was a $3 scrapper blank from woodcraft.

 

[Isaac Litster]

As a general rule, I tend to suggest that one may want to get the cheaper tools until they become comfortable with tool control, and understand and decide on a favored profile - Benjamins Best tools are honestly quite good, However every so often you might run across one with a quality defect or flaw (poor quality steel, brittle steel, chips, breakage, etc) but I have had Zero problems with my BB tools. The reasoning behind it is, Until you have settled on your own personal favored style and grinding profiles, you may find a need to change up your grinds perhaps several times, and it is perhaps easier on the pocket book to be grinding away cheap steel - Eventually you may want a more consistent higher quality steel that will hold an edge and a profile - once you settle on a grind you are happy with, it's much cheaper in the long run - keeping an edge sharp really doesnt need much griding , so your tools will last far longer , making it worth while to invest in higher grade steels (and/or handles) - The BB tools, I don't especially like their handles (and they may vary depending on if you buy then singly or in sets- usable length of the steel may vary as well, I have found - 3 different BB 1/2 inch bowl gouges - One came in a set and had a much shorter handle and much shorter usable tool length in order to fit into the kit box with the other 7 tools!) - But handles can be knocked off and your own turned handles installed...

As an alternative, I might suggest also checking out Hurricane - which are a little step up from BB, but still not as good as the top names (It's in the consistent quality of the steel) but to be honest, nothing really wrong with the Benjamins Best tools, especially on a budget - And if you have not used a particular tool before, take it from me, you're far better off buying the cheaper version of the tool first - if you end up finding you don't care for it (maybe you prefer another type of tool instead, etc.) you're not going to be $100 out of pocket , and you can take that cheaper tool and save it back, perhaps regrind it into something else (negative rake scraper? Tenon scraper? Captive Ring scraper?) that you may or may not find yourself enjoying using... Then once you know you like the tool and use it enough that you eventually have ground/sharpened it to end of life, by that time you may have enough wood chips under the belt to want to get a Thompson or Sorby or Crown...

I think that sealed the deal, thanks! I'm probably going to get the BB scrapers, I have used the set before, and hearing this relieves my doubts.

 

[Russell Nugent]

I think that sealed the deal, thanks! I'm probably going to get the BB scrapers, I have used the set before, and hearing this relieves my doubts.

I've got a couple of sets. One set changed to negative rake. They work very well. I did dress the corners with a diamond plate so they slide nice on the tool rest

 

[Dean Center]

The Benjamins Best tools are imported M2 steel. Remarkably, the BB tools have been pretty satisfactory tools, with generally shortish handles and somewhat skinny necks where the tang inserts. BB clones generally have had poorly done tempering of the steel, and skinny and fragile necks on the handles. Inexpensive chisels and scrapers may be thinner than the more expensive ones, as well.

M2 steel tools from British manufacturers are reliably tempered and have better handles.

There are ways to make the steel better. M42, Powdered Metal, cryo treatment, and V10 are such improved steels, all of which have different advantages, one from another. At this point in your turning, you probably don't need to spend a lot of brain power learning what those differences are. Doug Thompson's tools are V10, which is a harder steel and should stay sharp longer. Same with powdered metal tools. M42 is claimed to get a keener edge than M2.

All of the advanced steels cost more, sometimes much more, than M2. Most beginning turners will not be able to notice the benefit of the more expensive steels. Al Hockenbery can tell the difference and has decided where those advantages are worthwhile for him and where they aren't, and buys his tools accordingly. Some day, you'll be able to do this, too.

Gouges are made from round bars of steel, which is easier, and therefore cheaper, to produce than the flat stock used in chisels and scrapers. More expensive steel in a more expensive form, means Doug Thompson's skews and scrapers are much more expensive than similarly sized, cheaply made M2 steel tools.

 

[Tom McDonnell]

I have gouges from the various types of steel, PM, M42, M2. I dont notice a huge difference in performance among them aside from the edge lasing a bit longer on some. I often use an old Benjamins Best M2 bowl gouge for finishing cuts. It seems to take a keener edge but I'm not convinced that this is fact, maybe just preference. The Thompsom scrapers though, were a revelation. Definitely a more durable burr.

 

[Richard Coers]

I think that sealed the deal, thanks! I'm probably going to get the BB scrapers, I have used the set before, and hearing this relieves my doubts.

Remember, the burr does the job on a scraper, and it only lasts a super short amount of time. The life of the burr has a lot to do with the quality of the steel. And I'll guarantee you that the steel in Benjamin's Best is not the quality of a Thompson scraper. If you do buy the BB scrapers, keep your grinder running to keep a burr on the edge. A well cared for tool will last decades. Spending $50 more for a tool that lasts 20-30 years ends up costing you an extra $2 per year. That's the kind of money I easily spend.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

With gouges I’d say that the more expensive tools are made with higher grade steel and are likely to hold an edge longer and possibly may yield a sharper edge. However, since the goal is to always have a sharp edge the cheaper gouges most likely just need to be sharpened more often. I have bought gouges that I feel hold an edge longer so I sharpen less but I fully admit the difference may be sharpening once or twice during a bowl rather the 4 times. Since putting a sharp edge on a gouge takes only 30 seconds with the grinder already set up the additional cost may not be warranted. It’s just me and what I prefer.

With scrapers, as another said, the burr only lasts a short time. I may be able to scrape a small bowl to get the inside smooth or may not even be able do that without creating a new burr.

So in the end I doubt you lose much when you’re first starting to turn by spending less and sharpening more. The skill of sharpening is an important one to develop early so more practice is good.

 

[hughie]

I have a wide variety of toolmakers and brands mainly in the elusive search for the best edge retention as I work with Australian hardwoods constantly. Probably my go-to toolmaker would be Thompson or perhaps Hamlet 2060. But the advice of buying cheap to start with is a good one, as the best tool steel won't perform well if it ain't sharp. Sharpening or getting and edge is another kettle of fish and to me it's an art, ie to learn to make a Katana sword it takes a 4 year apprenticeship. But to sharpen the apprenticeship is 8 years. OK gouges certainly ain't Japanese swords, but the emphasis here is that to sharpen well is a learning curve that needs to be shown and taught so that whatever tool or brand you have can perform at its optimum level and it is better to do so on less expensive makes. As It's cheaper, wiser and less apprehensive.

 

[john lucas]

The cost of materials and proper heat treating and proper cryogenic treating add up. So the basic cost of A11 steel is higher than tge other steels. Then there is storage abd other handling costs. Add in the cost of advertising and traveling to shows to personally sell the tools and answer questions. When was the last time you saw a hurricane rep at a symposium.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

I can get my Thompson and Sorby gouges sharper than Benjamins Best and they also stay sharp longer. I can also get a better finish cut than with the BB so less sanding.

 

[Darryl Fective]

Another budget (but decent) brand is Yellowhammer. I bought a couple scrapers and liked them and tried their bowl gouges; not so good. I don't use scrapers much at all, so somethig cheap, that I'm not afraid to grind a different shape on, is sort of handy. I also have a Benjamins Best bowl gouge that doesn't get used much. It looks the same, and I grind it the same way, but it just isn't there. If I ever decide to try freehand grinding, I'll have my Yellowhammer and BB to practice on.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

As an alternative, I might suggest also checking out Hurricane

I agree that Hurricane makes decent tools.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

Some of my scrapers are woodcraft - a long time ago they sold flat HSS bars with tangs of various widths and thicknesses.

I bought this from Amazon. Haven't tried to make anything with it yet.

Amazon.com

 

[Randy Heinemann]

I generally don't buy cheap tools and, when I started to turn, I ended up spending more than I intended. I started out with carbide tools and I've never been sorry. I was able to safely and easily learn the basics of turning with carbides. Actually, I still create my tenons using Easy Wood carbides; the square rougher and the diamond shaped tool (with a sharp point rather than the rounded tip). It's still easier for me to use those 2 tools to create a tenon and I've never been sorry I started out that way.

When I began to acquire HSS gouges and scrapers, learn to sharpen them, and refine my technique with them, I did not buy bargain tools as I intend to have them last and have found that, at least with most tools, a much lower price means something has suffered in the quality. But, by the time I started buying these I knew I would continue with turning. So, if I were starting out, I might buy some cheaper tools until I was sure I wanted to do turning long-term. If you already know that you will not get tired of it and want to do it long-term, then, if it were me, I'd buy higher quality tools and, with turning tools, higher prices generally means higher quality steel which leads to sharper tools and longer times between sharpening...Just kind of where I am in my turning life right now. I've never been sorry I spent more money on HSS tools. To me, it's paid off.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

I bought this from Amazon. Haven't tried to make anything with it yet.

Amazon.com

I bought one of those but just a little larger, 12 x 30 x 300. Hard steel and made a great scraper. Took me a few hours to shape the end.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

My personal tools are from various high end tool makers, Robust, Thomson, Taylor, etc. When I had to get tooling for a school shop with seven lathes there was no way I could afford the cost of 21 gouges of the quality I am used to. I got Benjamin's (BB) for the school. When I am in classes at the school, I sometimes think I could spend all my time sharpening at the grinder. The BB just need continual care and touch-ups due to the difference in steel quality.

 

[Bill Alston]

M42 is claimed to get a keener edge than M2.

That’s what they say. I bought a Crown M42 spindle gouge but I can’t see any difference with a much older Henry Taylor gouge of the same size. In fact I actually prefer the Henry Taylor, it just seems nicer to use. The Henry Taylor is marked “DIAMIC”, I don’t know what type of steel it is?

 

[rkriet]

In fact I actually prefer the Henry Taylor, it just seems nicer to use. The Henry Taylor is marked “DIAMIC”, I don’t know what type of steel it is?

I’ve always liked the Henry Taylor gouges as well. The shape of the flute makes them very versitile tools for me. I’m not positive, but I believe the “Diamic” gouges are made with M2 steel.

 

[robo hippy]

I guess your needs are determined at least in part, by how much turning you are going to do. For me, I was a semi pro, which means I made enough to cover a few bills and support my habit in pretty good style, but not enough to make a living at it. I do not believe in getting the cheap tools because they just won't serve you as well as the more expensive ones. I have come down to using D Way and Thompson tools exclusively, other than the Big Ugly tool, which is home made. I do have a video about it on You Tube. For scrapers, the grinder burr is very durable, and not gone fast, which is common with the NRS, unless you burnish the burr. I could hog out one 12 inch bowl with one sharpening. With the Big Ugly tool, I can hog out several. I do not have any Benjamin's Best tools. My first set of tools came from Craft Supplies, in part because they were the only place that I knew of that was selling a lot of tools, and they were fairly close to home, though I did have them shipped. I don't think Amazon was in existence at that time. I generally will not buy anything on Amazon, just not a fan of their business.... I do think there is some thing true about the old saying, "Buy the best tool first and cry once. Buy the cheap tool and cry every time you use it." Generally I go for best 'value', and that is why I go for Thompson and D Way.

robo hippy

 

[Doug Freeman]

The main difference is how long the edge will last. With bowl gouges, the shape of the flute, but that can vary by mfr and/or model, and becomes a subject in itself.

When I started turning (~12 yrs ago) I knew nothing, zip, nada. As an engineer, I’m used to doing a lot of research, finding facts, doing testing, etc to formulate an answer. I did a lot of research and found lots of opinions but fact finding was difficult. It was impossible to put together a definitive tool list of type, size, steel, etc to get started. I didnt know how much I would like turning, and being very value conscious, I didnt want to invest $1,000’s in a lathe and tools to find out it was passing “fancy”. I started cheap, with the large HF lathe, and a set of HF Windsor tools, and added Bens Best and Hurricane tools as needed.

I decided that over time I would develop my own tool list based on my experience and preferences and what I could find through researching specific tools and capabilities. I made a lot of different forms so I could build an experience base to make decisions. Yes, I have a lot of $15-$30 tools that dont get used much, a few $100 worth. I shudder to think how many $’s it would be if all were top line name brand tools.

Particularly for BG's and scrapers, there are a lot of shapes/grinds. I don't hesitate to grab a $25 BB tool and try a new shape or grind, knowing I'm going to grind significant steel away. How willing will you be to grind a $120 tool away? Trying different types, sizes, and grinds of tools has been a big part of my turning journey.

I now have M42 & powered metal tools in the type and size I use most, 3/8 & 1/2 SG, and 5/8 shaft BG. I still use the HF, BB and hurricane tools. They cut and work just fine for the limited use they get. All of my scrapers are still BB - the price/performance is hard to beat. I can do anything with an off-brand tool that I can do with the better steel, I just make more trips to the grinder. There's a place for both the premium and the cheaper tools.

 

[David Gilbert]

I have a variety of tools just like the rest of you guys. One thing that I have seen is that Doug Thompson hardens the entire tool. When they come out of his heat treatment, they are black and he leaves them that way. I have used up a couple of his gouges and the steel is good all the way down to the end of the flute. I don't thinks there are many tools better than these. I have also use Benjamins Best and about half way down the flute the steel isn't as hard as it was when the tool was new.

I usually recommend new turners start with BB or Hurricane since they need to learn sharpening as well as turning. It's sort of a chicken or egg thing. Turn and then resharpen or sharpen. That way you learn both essential skills.

One last comment that came directly from Stuart Batty. He strongly believes that the very best steel should be in your scrapers and skews.

 

[Bill Alston]

One last comment that came directly from Stuart Batty. He strongly believes that the very best steel should be in your scrapers and skews.

I wish you hadn’t said that, I’m tempted now to splash out on a Crown M42 Scraper!

 

[Michael Brown]

I know this thread is approaching ad nauseum, but here are my naive opinions too.

I purchased carbide first. Week 2 of turning on my lathe I purchased a near full set of crown gouges and scrapers. By the end of the year I was using PMV10 and M42; from Thompson, crown (cryo) and D-way. I love edges that stay keen longer.

I will keep my m2 splindle gouges from sorby and crown till they look like one of Richard Raffin's vanishing flutes, but I will only be replacing them with V10 or M42.

It's not even subtle anymore on how fast the material melts off M2 or carbon steel compared to V10 and M42 while sharpening. Just the same it's much more enjoyable to make it through the entire outside of a bowl without having to stop and refresh the edge.

 

[Bill Blasic]

When I started turning almost 25 years ago I had a lot of tools from a lot of manufacturers, all high speed steel. No carbide as it wasn't that much into the realm of turning. Then I met Doug Thompson who was passing out some of the tools he had just started to make and even then with the little turning experience I had I knew these were made of great steel. I then got to know Doug and traveled with him to symposiums to help him sell these tools and I continued to do so for over 18 years. Retired from the booth with Doug last year. Over those years met a lot of folks even some of you here and learned that there is just not one way to do things with the same tools. So as far as turning tools go I was also in that period of time the President of the Presque Isle Woodturners for 10 years, that meant I met a lot of new turners. When I got a new turner I would ask "Do you have a gouge?" if they said no I would give them one, that is how I got rid of all my non Thompson turning tools. But again during those travel years I met Mike Hunter who was developing turning tools of a different type of carbide. While I was also writing articles reviewing turning apparatus I reviewed some of Mikes tools for review and these were without a doubt worthy of being called cutting carbide turning tools not scrapers. So now I basically have just two types of tools in my turning arsenal, Thompson Tools and Hunter Tools. These tools do not cost a bunch more than other manufacturers tools but for me they are head and shoulders above the rest and well worth every dollar spent.

 

[John Grace]

Like many others, my tool collection runs the gambit from the cheapest to the absolute best but in the end, they all serve a purpose. My thoughts are as follows...I have four or five tools with which I do 95+% of my work with. For those I use nothing but Doug Thompson tools. For the remaining turning duties I have a combination of Packard, Lancer, and even a couple of old Craftsman. Like many others, I don't have an endless budget and spend my 'best' money on just those tools I use all of the time. Assuming the tool geometries are the same...the only real difference between the best and worst is how long it holds an edge. In the end...what dictates our tool selection/purchase is our turning needs contrasted with what our budgets will allow.

 

[Bill Alston]

Assuming the tool geometries are the same...the only real difference between the best and worst is how long it holds an edge.

Agreed, flute shape and grind can make a big difference on bowl gouges.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

When I started turning almost 25 years ago I had a lot of tools from a lot of manufacturers, all high speed steel. No carbide as it wasn't that much into the realm of turning. Then I met Doug Thompson who was passing out some of the tools he had just started to make and even then with the little turning experience I had I knew these were made of great steel.

After reading this, I set off to buy a Thompson. However, his site isn't intuitive regarding the handles. For example, I don't understand the nose diameter. Does the handle with 5/8 nose go with the 5/8 gouges?


Do you use Doug's handles or turn your own?

 

[Vincent Vogel]

After reading this, I set off to buy a Thompson. However, his site isn't intuitive regarding the handles. For example, I don't understand the nose diameter. Does the handle with 5/8 nose go with the 5/8 gouges?

View attachment 60190
Do you use Doug's handles or turn your own?

I turn my own, I hate metal handles.

 

[Rick Moreton]

Kent, the handles are sold separately from the tool end. You need to look at the description of the tool to find the right size. The scrapers for example have:
"Made from 5/16 thick stock, all have a 6 inch blade length. The 1/2, 3/4 tools will fit a 1/2 nose on our handles and the 1″ and 1-1/4 tools will fit the 5/8 nose on our handle."

 

[Dean Center]

Yes, a 5/8" gouge goes with the 5/8" nose handle. The handles are very nice, and the flats are both good for tool control and keep them from rolling off surfaces you put them on. My only problem with Doug's handles is that they're metal and cold in the winter. I solved that by slipping some vinyl tubing of the correct size over the handle. Problem solved. They are still just a little out of round, so they don't tend to roll.

 

[Michael Brown]

Do you use Doug's handles or turn your own?

I cleaned out woodworkers emporium of their sb collets and as many bolsters I could justify. Then I grabbed more from Ashley hardwood. I turned handles and added the bolsters. Now that SB is back in business I tried a new one from him and I was not disappointed.

I also added robust collets to my collection. Once I got a set of ER25 collets, every tool Doug makes fits the handle.

I love keeping my handles clean while sharpening.

 

[Brian Deakin]

Crown tools and probably all the other Uk made tools are not heat treated along their entire length

A small length of the shaft on the tool where the tool enters the handle is not heat treated

The rational is this area works as a safety feature If you have a catastrophic accident then the tool fails

In contrast It is my understanding some manufacturers heat treat the entire length of the tool

 

[Bill Blasic]

Probably one of the most asked questions of Thompson tools. "Does the handle hold different sizes", "no the handles are made for 1 diameter tool". Now you could by several different tools with same diameter to fit one handle. Also the handles are filled with steel shot, never unscrew the back of the handle without the back of the handle pointing up. The handles are powder coated and Doug lasers your name on it if desired. Thompson tools are heat treated the entire length of the tool. Over the years I know of only a few broken tools (at least 2 of these were operator error, no doubt) but Doug replaced all of them. One other thing is the tools are made in the USA complete.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

Crown tools and probably all the other Uk made tools are not heat treated along their entire length

I ordered a 1/2" Thompson BG, but yesterday I was wandering Woodcraft (bad idea) and ended up buying a Crown 1/4" bowl gouge. Will see how they compare.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

Probably one of the most asked questions of Thompson tools. "Does the handle hold different sizes", "no the handles are made for 1 diameter tool".

What would be nice is an insert system like some chucks use. Inserts for 3/8", 1/2", etc. with the same handle. I'm sure Doug has no incentive to do something like that. ;-)

 

[hockenbery]

My two favorite gouges are the Jamieson bowl gouge made by thompson and the Jamieson bowl gouge.

I made handles I get a diameter and length I like. Also I like dedicated handles.
I also learned to sharpen handled tools. Last thing I want to do is hold a heavy tool handle filled with lead.
Also a slight advantage is switching between tools with variation in the handles supposedly reduces the risk of repetitive motion ailments.

 

[Dave Landers]

What would be nice is an insert system like some chucks use. Inserts for 3/8", 1/2", etc. with the same handle. I'm sure Doug has no incentive to do something like that. ;-)

I assume Trent's inserts would work with Doug's handles (but don't actually know).

 

[Dean Center]

I ordered a 1/2" Thompson BG, but yesterday I was wandering Woodcraft (bad idea) and ended up buying a Crown 1/4" bowl gouge. Will see how they compare.

A 1/2" bowl gouge and a 1/4" bowl gouge will feel different, just because of the size difference. Even assuming the 1/4" is the British flute measurement and equivalent to a 3/8" US measurement, this is still probably not a reliable comparison. IME, both have their place.