Issue with LED lights at the lathe. Any suggestions?

[Ricc Havens]

I have an older model LLED3 light from Penn State Industries (PSI)that I bought 3yrs ago via Amazon when PSI was selling on Amazon. It has worked fine.

But recently I bought a second one new from Penn State directly from their own website. When I set it up and turned it on it would flicker if the old one was on. Even if plugged into two separate outlets that are on separate breakers. I called PSI and got switched over to tech support. He told me he would check a new one before it was sent and mark the box so I would know it was checked. And they would send me an UPS call tag for the one I had just received so I wouldn't have to pay for return shipping.

Well got the new replacement today.. It does the same thing. It will flicker if the old one is on. Yet the old one does NOT flicker. ALSO< I unplugged the old one and set up both new ones and if one is on the other will flicker if they are within about 5ft of each other even if one separate circuts. Called PSI tech support and he was kind of rude and said "well I checked it before it went out so the problem is on my end. When I explained that it happened with the old one or the other new one plugged in he just sent me over to customer support to get another RMA number for the second one too. The customer support lady issuing RMA's said the return shipping on the second one would not be refunded as the electrical problem was on my end since they had checked the sedon new unit and it worked fine before it was shipped to me. Again I tried to explain that both new ones will flicker if used together within 5ft. even if on two separate circuts. So to me it's something within the low voltage transformers or internal circuitry since they don't do it if only one is on by itself. But she was adamant tht the issue was with my electrical system. And no redund for shipping would be issued.

I have other LED lights both ceiling and machine tack lights and none of them flicker when other LED lights are on.

Any electrical gurus out there have any ideas or suggestions? Is there some kind of separate plug in module/filter or something that can be used to mitigate the frequency interference or whatever is causing the issue?

Thanks
Ricc

Here is an image of the light from their webpage. I like the light that's why I wanted another one.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

I would suggest that you try both new lights together at some other facility. Also try an inline RF filter in one or both of the AC lines feeding the separate lights. I would guess that the lights use a high frequency chopper as part of the device that changes 120 V AC to some much smaller DC. Maybe the choppers in the two lights run at slightly different frequencies and interact via the power cords to cause a sort of beat note with a frequency equal to the difference between the two chopper frequencies.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I agree that the chopper circuit is very likely the cause of the EMI. Since a distance of 5 feet was mentioned that indicates the EMI problem is radiated rather than conducted so an inline filter probably wouldn't help the situation. It looks like the manufacturer didn't do an adequate EMI compatibility test program.

Perhaps, the new LED lights have been "value engineered" (that's where you remove components one by one until the device quits working, and then you put the last part removed back into the circuit). One of the most annoying failure modes of LED lamps that I have seen several times (about 5 - 10) in my home is flickering at three or four blinks per second.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

You may be right Bill. I suggest wrapping the base units in aluminum foil to see if that makes a difference.

 

[Ricc Havens]

I would suggest that you try both new lights together at some other facility. Also try an inline RF filter in one or both of the AC lines feeding the separate lights. I would guess that the lights use a high frequency chopper as part of the device that changes 120 V AC to some much smaller DC. Maybe the choppers in the two lights run at slightly different frequencies and interact via the power cords to cause a sort of beat note with a frequency equal to the difference between the two chopper frequencies.

I don't drive due to vision issues so I willl try to take them to another facility/shop when I can find a ride. I looked online for RF filters for LED lights and all I saw where wiring harness/filters for LED headlights. Any links or model/part numbers you recommend?

 

[Ricc Havens]

You may be right Bill. I suggest wrapping the base units in aluminum foil to see if that makes a difference.

I will give that a try.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I looked online for RF filters for LED lights and all I saw where wiring harness/filters for LED headlights. Any links or model/part numbers you recommend?

@Ricc Havens, It probably isn't worth pursuing the powerline RF filter as a potential solution. Also, filters for conducted interference are relatively generic and not device-specific. I just had a Eurica moment for a simple test to see if a power line filter would remedy the problem. If your computer uses a UPS battery backup then it is very likely that several of its outlets are filtered. If you don't mind "borrowing" your UPS for a quick test, unplug the computer, monitor, printer, etc, and then plug your two new LED lamps into two filtered receptacles on the UPS. If this does remedy the flickering problem then buy a power strip that has built-in filters (RF filter + MOVs). MOV stands for metal-oxide varistor and it is basically a semiconductor high-voltage clamp.

 

[Ricc Havens]

Dennis, the foil wrap didn't work.

Bill, I don't have a UPS unit. I will check to see what a powerstrip with RF/MOV costs and the avqailability.

Thanks
Guys!

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

It occurs to me that I have no idea what the chopping frequency is. for your lights. A simple in-line RFI filter probably will be designed to absorb RF signals in the megahertz range.and higher. I would guess that the actual chopping frequency is much smaller than than that. That said, a simple conventional RFI filter or RFI sheilding probably will have no effect.

 

[hughie]

I have LED lighting exclusively in the shop as overhead room lighting, spot lights and small movable lighting none flicker. It sounds some sort of degradation of the light its self, I would just replace it if its economical to do so. Some of my light are new others are out the local hospital that decided to replace all the LED strip light in the hallways??? Darned if I know why as they all worked, so they were well-used.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

Try calling Woodturners Wonders. They sell similar lights to your picture and they are great lights. They also may have some insight into your problem. Just a suggestion for a resource. I have no idea what the problem is. When I first replaced my overhead shop lighting with LED lights, I had to replace 2 of them within 2 years because they failed; namely they began to randomly flicker; not all the time but enough they were useless. Since then I have had no problems with LED light, either regular shop lights or smaller spot lighting lights.

 

[Ricc Havens]

I have LED lighting exclusively in the shop as overhead room lighting, spot lights and small movable lighting none flicker. It sounds some sort of degradation of the light its self, I would just replace it if its economical to do so. Some of my light are new others are out the local hospital that decided to replace all the LED strip light in the hallways??? Darned if I know why as they all worked, so they were well-used.

Hugh, I have LED lights exclusively in my shop too. Same as you, ceiling, lights, and other spotlights and task lights At other machines. It only happens with the two LED lights from Penn State. Even if I take them into Different parts of the house they do the same thing if they are in close proximity to each other.

Randy, thanks for the idea but I’m not sure Woodturners wonders would want to try and troubleshoot a competitors product. I know I wouldn’t if I was them.

 

[Randy Heinemann]

Actually I wasn’t really suggesting that since I understood that you were sending the lights back anyway. I was suggesting calling WTW to get some input on whether their lights had ever had that sort of a problem. I think they’d work with you to try out one of their lights to see if the same thing happened when used with the other light. Maybe not but, since you want another, these don’t work, and Woodturners Wonders sells similar maybe it’s worth a try.

 

[Ricc Havens]

Actually I wasn’t really suggesting that since I understood that you were sending the lights back anyway. I was suggesting calling WTW to get some input on whether their lights had ever had that sort of a problem. I think they’d work with you to try out one of their lights to see if the same thing happened when used with the other light. Maybe not but, since you want another, these don’t work, and Woodturners Wonders sells similar maybe it’s worth a try.

I haven't sent it back to Penn State yet as I was hoping I might find an inexpensive filter or other idea to solve the issue. I'm on a disability income so that's why I bought the one from Penn state for $89 (I got it for $79 witha 10 off promo code). The one from WTW is almost double that at $159 and out of my budget. I've done some searching on Amazon and just haven't found a similar lamp with similar specs on lumens output and length of the gooseneck, etc.

 

[Brian Gustin]

I haven't sent it back to Penn State yet as I was hoping I might find an inexpensive filter or other idea to solve the issue. I'm on a disability income so that's why I bought the one from Penn state for $89 (I got it for $79 witha 10 off promo code). The one from WTW is almost double that at $159 and out of my budget. I've done some searching on Amazon and just haven't found a similar lamp with similar specs on lumens output and length of the gooseneck, etc.

Likewise, I'm on disability myself, I do most of my shopping on Amazon, and I have seen similar lights for far cheaper (I actually got smaller size 12 inch pair of LED's for drill press - I re-purposed an ancient Foley-Belsaw flexible gooseneck that came off my dad's sharp-all for lathe lighting.... it also had a magnifying glass on the same mounting, but on a different gooseneck that the lens broke out of it long ago.. and that gooseneck sometimes is used to clip stuff to, etc..)

I tend to shy away from PSI these days even on Amazon - They are basically selling the "no-name" china brands that you can often find far cheaper on Amazon with the same level of quality (and sometimes, surprisingly, better) I got a 4-pack of LED linkable shop lights from a no-name brand for half the price of ONE shop light from a branded supplier (and when I got them, the packaging, build, and even some of the mold marks were pretty much identical!)

If I wanted a better quality than what you can get from PSI, I'd go to actual branded stuff (Lee Valley/Veritas for example) (Rare but sometimes the cheap tool just isn't worth the hassle , so I'll save up my pennies and buy once, cry once) - but if I thought a PSI offering would be suitable, I'll do some research on Amazon first, and usually can find pretty much identical items from no-name (or weird brands) sellers for quite a bit less.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

If you want something functional yet cheap look on eBay for sewing machine gooseneck. Found one under 16 but shipping about 9. After that much more . Seems they all went up. I use a bright LED in mine.

 

[hughie]

I came across this on my travels and there is quite a few pages on this issue, so it looks like it could be quite common. By the look of it there seems to be a few common issues such as mix matched components, shoddy wiring and generally low quality LEDs

Why Do LED Lights Flicker — and How to Stop It?

Have you replaced old incandescent bulbs with LED light bulbs only to have them flickering on and off? If so, you are certainly not the first or the last one to experience this issue. This is a common problem, and more often than not the bulb in question is not the real culprit. Since a...

www.liquidleds.com.au

 

[Ricc Havens]

Brian, as I mentioned earlier - I haven't found anything on Amazon with similar specs. i.e length of gooseneck, amount of lumens, etc. If I find the a lamp with a similar length of gooseneck it's always a lot lower lumens than the PSI or WTW. Haven't found anything "pretty much identical" as you mentioned. At least not yet. But I still look from time to time.

Gerald, sewing machine lights are okay for some things and I use them on my grinder and drill press. But they don't have the long gooseneck or lumens that the PSI light has.

Hugie - thanks for the info I will check it out.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Brian, as I mentioned earlier - I haven't found anything on Amazon with similar specs. i.e length of gooseneck, amount of lumens, etc. If I find the a lamp with a similar length of gooseneck it's always a lot lower lumens than the PSI or WTW. Haven't found anything "pretty much identical" as you mentioned. At least not yet. But I still look from time to time.

Gerald, sewing machine lights are okay for some things and I use them on my grinder and drill press. But they don't have the long gooseneck or lumens that the PSI light has.

Hugie - thanks for the info I will check it out.

Hmm 700 lumens? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BMQ4GW7R/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_0?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_plhdr=t&th=1 or perhaps an even cheaper one at https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Fle...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ== , and then there's the ones I'd probably get myself (plan to since my old sharp-all lamp is starting to get wonky) : https://www.amazon.com/YOUKOYI-Flex...pY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1 and if I had the floor space (or I could creatively adapt it to wall mount overhead and swing away) a floor model lamp https://www.amazon.com/Dimunt-Stepl...aWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl&th=1

Just some suggestions - like I said, there's a lot of LED lighting options, some seem to come pretty close to similar to the PSI one pictured, but they all seem to be quite a bit less (Or I found some at McMaster-Carr for quite a bit more, but those are "fat wallet" buys..)

 

[Sam Fleisher]

I haven't sent it back to Penn State yet as I was hoping I might find an inexpensive filter or other idea to solve the issue. I'm on a disability income so that's why I bought the one from Penn state for $89 (I got it for $79 witha 10 off promo code). The one from WTW is almost double that at $159 and out of my budget. I've done some searching on Amazon and just haven't found a similar lamp with similar specs on lumens output and length of the gooseneck, etc.

There is one I found but it's on backorder right at the moment. I'll see if I can find the link for it.

**edit** here it is, looks like there are ones with a lower wattage available.

It was the "worth the effort" guy on you tube that I found it with his info.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PVDWR6D?ie=UTF8&linkCode=sl1&tag=shawngrahamwo-20&linkId=9110d228c12168679b905c106d8939f8&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl&th=1

 

[Doug Freeman]

I got a couple of these ~3 yrs ago, no issues. I much prefer the light beam being 90 deg to the neck vs inline. These are $50.

I have a brighter, more focused beam inline type that I no longer use. Will sell if interested.

Flex Arm Magnetic LED Work Light

Flex Arm Magnetic LED Work Light - 23 inch Gooseneck flexible arm Magnetic Work Light sold at Highland Woodworking.

www.highlandwoodworking.com

 

[Ricc Havens]

Hmm 700 lumens? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BMQ4GW7R/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_0?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_plhdr=t&th=1 or perhaps an even cheaper one at https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Flexible-Gooseneck-Lighting-industrial/dp/B0BLJLR3NW/ref=sr_1_12_sspa?crid=1CF4ARVSIL852&keywords=led+gooseneck+lamp+adjustable&qid=1684182435&sprefix=LED+Gooseneck+lamp,aps,139&sr=8-12-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyNUVVMVk0UkpROEdPJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjUzMzI5QUdOR09RUFg5WU8zJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA1NzU5MjYxWlAyVElGWVlZRVk1JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ== , and then there's the ones I'd probably get myself (plan to since my old sharp-all lamp is starting to get wonky) : https://www.amazon.com/YOUKOYI-Flexible-Gooseneck-Architect-Stepless/dp/B086JS6CS1/ref=sxin_16_pa_sp_search_thematic_sspa?content-id=amzn1.sym.9aaeff48-3310-46df-94ec-ea59eda4c869:amzn1.sym.9aaeff48-3310-46df-94ec-ea59eda4c869&crid=1CF4ARVSIL852&cv_ct_cx=led+gooseneck+lamp+adjustable&keywords=led+gooseneck+lamp+adjustable&pd_rd_i=B086JS6CS1&pd_rd_r=23638cac-9bd1-4acb-8ee9-92aeb18c9a60&pd_rd_w=jGgHs&pd_rd_wg=dFTzU&pf_rd_p=9aaeff48-3310-46df-94ec-ea59eda4c869&pf_rd_r=6RR1YQJN6KE78F389BA1&qid=1684182435&sbo=RZvfv//HxDF+O5021pAnSA==&sprefix=LED+Gooseneck+lamp,aps,139&sr=1-2-2b34d040-5c83-4b7f-ba01-15975dfb8828-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyNUVVMVk0UkpROEdPJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUExMDM4MDc4MkIzM0lRVVY4UzEzMiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzMyMDQzMzBUOTJVNlI0MjhWSSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX3NlYXJjaF90aGVtYXRpYyZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1 and if I had the floor space (or I could creatively adapt it to wall mount overhead and swing away) a floor model lamp https://www.amazon.com/Dimunt-Stepless-Adjustable-3000K-6000K-Brightness/dp/B08L7DD8L9/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=1CF4ARVSIL852&keywords=led+gooseneck+lamp+adjustable&qid=1684182435&sprefix=LED+Gooseneck+lamp,aps,139&sr=8-3-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyNUVVMVk0UkpROEdPJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjUzMzI5QUdOR09RUFg5WU8zJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA3NjYwMTE0TTEyRTJWWjhCMjEmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl&th=1

Just some suggestions - like I said, there's a lot of LED lighting options, some seem to come pretty close to similar to the PSI one pictured, but they all seem to be quite a bit less (Or I found some at McMaster-Carr for quite a bit more, but those are "fat wallet" buys..)

Thanks. I checked them out. the first one is close on lumens but still isn't the same specs on length of gooseneck. PSI is 30" the one you linked is 16". But I may order one just to see if the LED issue happens with my existing PSI LED light.

The other lamp you links is nice but I just don't have the floor space behind the lathe.

THANKS!

 

[Ricc Havens]

I got a couple of these ~3 yrs ago, no issues. I much prefer the light beam being 90 deg to the neck vs inline. These are $50.

I have a brighter, more focused beam inline type that I no longer use. Will sell if interested.

Flex Arm Magnetic LED Work Light

Flex Arm Magnetic LED Work Light - 23 inch Gooseneck flexible arm Magnetic Work Light sold at Highland Woodworking.

www.highlandwoodworking.com

I will keep this one in mind if I can't find something else. BUt, for some reason I orefer the stright on light head not the 90deg light head that you prefer.

 

[Ricc Havens]

There is one I found but it's on backorder right at the moment. I'll see if I can find the link for it.

**edit** here it is, looks like there are ones with a lower wattage available.

It was the "worth the effort" guy on you tube that I found it with his info.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PVDWR6D?ie=UTF8&linkCode=sl1&tag=shawngrahamwo-20&linkId=9110d228c12168679b905c106d8939f8&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl&th=1

Thanks - I will check them out.

 

[Gordon Patnude]

"I just had a Eurica moment . . . . . "

Eureka is the correct spelling - - - c'mon people!! We are smarter than that!!

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Dunno, Gordon. It's Greek to me.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

εύρηκα

 

[Sam Fleisher]

If you want something functional yet cheap look on eBay for sewing machine gooseneck. Found one under 16 but shipping about 9. After that much more . Seems they all went up. I use a bright LED in mine.
View attachment 52543

I look at this picture and I say to myself....Self what am I doing wrong? If I were turning there everything would be covered with curls of wood. More so than the 3-4 I see in the pic.
Is it my technique? I either fill my tool holder behind the lathe to the point where the tool won't fit back in it or it's hitting me in the faceplate.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I look at this picture and I say to myself....Self what am I doing wrong? If I were turning there everything would be covered with curls of wood. More so than the 3-4 I see in the pic.
Is it my technique? I either fill my tool holder behind the lathe to the point where the tool won't fit back in it or it's hitting me in the faceplate.

Hey it gets the curls too. Just had not done much green turning at that time. But you would be amazed at what a blast of air can clear

 

[Charlie Knighton]

My experience, just any 4' light at poplar stores, then when stop lathe to look at form use handheld work light, tell me about spending $$$k on overhead lights and then tell me what u see @ 800-1200 rpms.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

Thanks - I will check them out.

Also found this one at 47" But it's a bolt on which could be better depending on where you mount it. I sometimes have a problem with my magnet turning because the paint is too slick.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089F1D9M9/?coliid=I1HZJKHAVKZ563&colid=2E92HBDREU8E0&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1