Can anyone tell me why they say you can't use a wood MT in a self ejecting tailstock?
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Wooden morse taper ?
- Thread starter Mark Warden
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It might not come out. If the wood compress, while in your quill, the ejection pin will deform the wood and not free the tapper. If you plan to do this make sure the wood is very dense.
To quote Al Hockenbery, "Never put a wooden Morse taper into a self-ejecting tailstock. You may have great difficulty removing it."
I'm sure it has a lot to do with the high probability of the end mushrooming over and becoming trapped inside the quill.
Here's the link to Al's article on turning a Morse taper: http://www.hockenbery-woodturnings.com/Turning%20a%20Morse%20taper.pdf
John Jordan
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Just put a screw in the back of it. Another hint is to turn the middle of the taper away and only fit it on each end-it's much easier to get a fit and it really doesn't need to contact all along for maximum strength, or you wouldn't be using wood.
John
John
john lucas
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I haven't done it a lot but I have used a wooden morse taper in my self ejecting tailstocks without any problem. I do recomment what John J suggested. Turn away the middle of the morse taper. It's much easier to get a good fit because the wood on both ends compresses easier.
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Would someone explain when someone might want to have a wooden Morse taper in the tailstock? I can see times when it would be useful to put one in the headstock, but I can't think of a case where I would want one in the tailstock.
odie
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Hello boehme.......
My best guess about that is it's some special jig, or tooling that the turner has made for his own use. Wood is the medium because it lends itself to manipulation by the average person in his home shop.......
It certainly wouldn't stand up to much axial, or radial pressure, but that's probably not the objective.
ooc
Ca?
If you soak the narrow end with thin CA it will be toughened enough that mushrooming should not be an issue. Of course cure over night!!!!
If you soak the narrow end with thin CA it will be toughened enough that mushrooming should not be an issue. Of course cure over night!!!!
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I guess that my question really was what can you do with a wooden Morse taper that is fixed stationary while a wood workpiece is turning -- it sounds a lot like rubbing two sticks together. It must be something along the lines of what you are thinking about, Odie -- some sort of fixture that is probably used with the lathe turned off.
Thanks everyone the screw sounds like a good idea and turning away the middle.As for why I saw someone on tv turning metal bowls and brass bells with metal forms in the tailstock to shape them around I thoght I'd try making some forms from wood and give it a try.
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Sounds like "metal spinning" to me. That will be our March demo at the Woodturners of North Texas. Are you sure that you don't mean wooden form rather than metal form?
No the guy on tv had metal forms I want to make some from wood.Looked like fun.
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When you do get it stuck, The biggest issue is one that is too short to eject
a wrench around the ram or a scraper flat on the ram usually forces a short taper out on a metal center.
this won't work on a wooden taper unless there is enough wood that won't split away
1. try twisting it with big vice grips.
2. when that won't budge it, remove the ram from the tailstock tape a steel rod to protect the threads try hitting the rod to drive it out.
3. rig up some thing like a gear puller (vice, big clamps) to press against the rod to force it out
4, put it all back together and drill it out the center of the taper by advancing it over a drill bit in the head stock.
5. repeat step 1
6. get a chisel and split the wood
repeat step 1.
In hind site I would skip steps 2,3 and go right to drilling.
Happy Turning,
Al
a wrench around the ram or a scraper flat on the ram usually forces a short taper out on a metal center.
this won't work on a wooden taper unless there is enough wood that won't split away
1. try twisting it with big vice grips.
2. when that won't budge it, remove the ram from the tailstock tape a steel rod to protect the threads try hitting the rod to drive it out.
3. rig up some thing like a gear puller (vice, big clamps) to press against the rod to force it out
4, put it all back together and drill it out the center of the taper by advancing it over a drill bit in the head stock.
5. repeat step 1
6. get a chisel and split the wood
repeat step 1.
In hind site I would skip steps 2,3 and go right to drilling.
Happy Turning,
Al
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The form that the metal is spun around is on the headstock, and provides the 'drive' to the metal that allows it to be spun. The tailstock has a follower, that clamps the metal to the form, and it must spin freely. A live center is used to hold the followers, as different parts require different followers.
Heavy pressure is required from the tailstock to clamp the blank against the form to allow the initial forming of the metal. Once the part is partially formed, the additional contact between the blank and the form helps in driving the blank, but tailstock pressure is still required.
There may be some special parts that require finishing by spinning over a form on the tailstock after the bulk of the forming is performed on a form on the headstock. A live center would still be required in the tailstock to support this form.
Later,
Dale M
Heavy pressure is required from the tailstock to clamp the blank against the form to allow the initial forming of the metal. Once the part is partially formed, the additional contact between the blank and the form helps in driving the blank, but tailstock pressure is still required.
There may be some special parts that require finishing by spinning over a form on the tailstock after the bulk of the forming is performed on a form on the headstock. A live center would still be required in the tailstock to support this form.
Later,
Dale M
john lucas
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Ditto What Dale said. It is metal spinning and the tailstock portion holds the metal in place and must be a live center.
The form you push the metal over is on the headstock side. There are lots of good videos on youtube if you want them.
The form you push the metal over is on the headstock side. There are lots of good videos on youtube if you want them.
contact
ya might want to contact Matt Birchfield
he used a wooden morse taper in his shotgun shell box at his rotation in richmond
Matt suggested cutting the end of the #2 morse taper less than the taper so it would not mushroom and have to be drilled out
his notes (which he added the cutting comment to) are in the richmond symposium 2008 demonstrator handouts booklet starting on page 13
his email and invitation to contact him is in the demonstrator handout book
i really did enjoy his rotation, while i have not made a shotgun shell, i have used some of knowledge for other projects
ya might want to contact Matt Birchfield
he used a wooden morse taper in his shotgun shell box at his rotation in richmond
Matt suggested cutting the end of the #2 morse taper less than the taper so it would not mushroom and have to be drilled out
his notes (which he added the cutting comment to) are in the richmond symposium 2008 demonstrator handouts booklet starting on page 13
his email and invitation to contact him is in the demonstrator handout book
i really did enjoy his rotation, while i have not made a shotgun shell, i have used some of knowledge for other projects
Wow did I have that wrong! I went to you tube and I think what i saw on tv was a CNC machine working it was all closeup shots and it was going left to right so I assumed it was spinning toward the tailsock. The video on youtube shows the whole machine and wouldn't ya know the tooling is in the back of the lathe.And as I'm typing this I just had the thought Left handed people can turn too guess that is why they make reversable lathes But now too much of my ignorance is showing thru. Thanks for all the replies
Bob, would you not be able to retract the tailstock quill, and then stop just short of the self ejector making contact, and then just knock out the taper with a knockout rod?
BTW, thanks for the link to Al's pdf... good read.
Al,
I would think the knock out method would work for a while. I like John's idea of using a screw in the end for the added ability to safeguard against the mushrooming.
I would think the knock out method would work for a while. I like John's idea of using a screw in the end for the added ability to safeguard against the mushrooming.
One of the reasons for a morse taper made of wood. You can turn a piece that includes a morse taper and that fits snugly inside a faceplate. After turning the bottom of a platter or bowl, DF tape can be applied to the faceplate and it can then be centered on the piece.
Wally Dickerman
Wally Dickerman