Wood Turning Shop - Dimension

[mrGeeze]

I've got a house. Don't think its my forever house.
After 4 years I miss woodworking. I like to turn quite a bit also
Don't have the space for a full blown woodshop but I feel I could adequately put a small woodturning shed on the property.
Don't want a closet, but don't want to build space I'm not going to use

Currently I own a Nova DVR which might get upgraded to a Robust. Don't know if I need anything larger than a Sweet 16
So lets say 2 medium sized lathes
2 Grinder stations
3ea. 5 ft shelving units on wheels.
Some extra space for the stuff one forgets.

12x16 or 12x20 is what I'm thinking

Comments ?

 

[hockenbery]

Think beyond the lathe & grinders which are some of the essentials
bandsaw and air-compressor are also often essential
A work bench & stools( turning project) desirable

If you have direction in mind you may want more stuff

For me a sandblast cabinet and drill press are essential

If you head down the segment assembly rabbit hole you’ll want a saw.

Any new shop deserves some time dedicated to designing lighting
We worked with a real lighting store they had a program that came up with lighting that put day light at working level except for one corner. They could light that corner for a lot more so we went with that.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

Try to decide what equipment you must have, the scale you want to work at and your tolerance for moving things around on casters. You can get a lot into a 12"x20" space if you are willing to shuffle. A friend of mine does wonderful small work with a midi lathe, a small bandsaw and a carving bench in a 6' x15' space. A professional turner I knew had a 36" bandsaw, a Oneway lathe with an 8' bed, a chainsaw, bench grinder and photography alcove in a much larger shop but I daresay he could have squeezed it all into 250-300 sq. ft, and for what he turned he didn't need much else. Make a scale model of the projected shop and tools on paper or in pixels and play around to come up with a workable layout.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

I'm currently in that 12x20 space.

2 lathes.
2 14" bandsaws (don't ask...)
1 floor-standing drill press
1 bench grinder cabinet (a bit bigger than the grider dimensions)
1 chop saw bench (no extenstions)
1 2-bag dust collector
3 small rolling tool chests
1 (unused) 6" jointer (it should go away)
1 8'x30" workbench
2 portable shop vacs
Misc. lumber plank piles
And 6" to 8" deep wall-mounted shelves in several areas.

Net result- just enough space for the human being occupying the space to realize this much stuff really (and safely) needs to be in a 20x20 space instead of 12x20. Kevin's scale drawing is a good idea. Scale a machine or bench, add 3' around each side for the human being to be with it, plus moving around/general work space in the room, and see what you need.

In the beginning, when I had 1 lathe, 1 bandsaw, 1 shop vac, the grinder, and bench, 12x20 was just about perfect. But as the old saying goes, a workshop is never big enough. Go as large as you can now and be happy with it, and give the next buyer of your house something to drool over. And use it as the lesson for what your next shop really needs. I started in an 8x10 shed, it met all the woodturning needs of that time, but needs and interests grow.

 

[Doug Freeman]

The best thing to do is a scaled layout, whether on a pc or on paper. Represent each item with a movable footprint, and start playing around. Include doors/swing, windows, walking paths, etc.

 

[Dave Landers]

I had a roughly 20'x30' shop built a bit over a year ago. FWIW I've got 2 lathes, 2 grinders, 14" and 20" bandsaw, table saw, drill press, compressor, dust collector, a desk, several shelf units, tool cabinets, a workbench, and stuff I've forgot to list.
Anyway, some things I can suggest:
- As others suggested - make scale models of your machines, bench, storage, etc and play with layouts. Can use CAD software or just be simple/easy and do paper cutouts on grid paper. Remember you need space to stand and work and move around so include that space too.
- Get some rough cost estimates vs square footage - whether you're building yourself or contracting - so as you play with the layouts you can balance vs your budget.
- Lighting! Also, I painted the walls slightly off-white, matte, to reflect light all around so very little shadows. And plenty of good lights - I prefer daylight color temp (5000K).
- OSB walls are so much better in a shop than drywall. Can hang things without needing to find studs.
- Electrical. I thought I had more outlets than I'd need, but at least 2 are already full (I forgot things like the saws have a light - so that's 2 plugs... etc). I did quad 120v every 5' and 240v about every 10'. Probably should add a couple more near the lathes and saws.
- A door for you and a wider door for machines/wood. Could be the same (like a French double door). I have a normal door plus a single garage door.
- Storage - places to put wood etc. Sheet goods take different kind of space than bowl blanks...
- Windows make the space more enjoyable (especially if there's something outside to look at), but take up valuable wall space. I have just one window, but it's facing the mountains and I wouldn't want to be without it (also couldn't really find space on another wall for another window).
- Depending on your climate: insulation, heat, and/or air-conditioning may make the difference between enjoying your shop time vs freezing (or sweating) for half the year.

You will eventually fill up all the space you give yourself - you'll either grow into a larger space - or learn to be efficient in a smaller one.

 

[Charles Cadenhead]

If you're in a neighborhood check the HOA or city guidelines first. They may not allow for detached structures or have guidelines you'll need to follow.

 

[Hugh]

You need wood storage space. Rough out drying space. Work bench to work on stuff....chainsaws, bowl projects.....the list goes on and on.

 

[Richard Coers]

You forgot the bandsaw, air compressor, and dust collector. Why two medium lathes and two grinders? Clean area for finishing? Running a heavy wire to the shop is expensive, and you need a concrete or heavily reinforced wood floor to eliminate vibration on the lathe from the floor flexing. If you are in an urban area, they have zoning laws on the size of a shed. In my city it's limited to 150sq ft for an outbuilding.

 

[David Wyke]

Good advice from everyone. The only thing I would add is drawing it out on paper is good but actually laying it out on the ground to me is better. Locate where you want the building and get a can of marking paint or stake it out with twine. Then mark for your doors and/or windows. Get the dimensions of you equipment and mark that with paint on the inside including work benches and cabinets.
Once this is done you can physically see how much room you will have. Take a few days to make sure you have marked out every possible piece of equipment you may need in the shop.
I have told several people to do this for workshops, equipment storage, and separate garages and they all thanked me afterwards. Most increased the size of the space after doing this.
I did this with my shop which is 24 x 36 inside with a 10’ extended roof line and a lean-to all with concrete. I had the builder come look at it when it was laid out so he knew exactly what I wanted. The lean to with concrete is for future expansion, the extended roof line is so I can raise the door and not worry about rain blowing in.
I also have room to extend the building in the back if needed, which is needed now😂

 

[Raif Harik]

I would definitely get a slab if you can makes a huge difference. Here's one concern I haven't seen mentioned yet, if you get a table saw, and let's be real, you know you want one that is makes a TON of space (mixed metaphor, sorry). You need 8' behind and 8' in front and 8' width is about min. This is all open space, well the out feed can be cabinets but still.
I know what folks are thinking, why do you need a TS for woodturning, and you don't. But I used mine to build the shop, plus they are useful for jigs etc. Not to mention when your wife/partner insists that you turn a bench or an armoire.
My advise, make it as big as you can get away with. I've never heard of a shop that was too big and if it is, I'm dying over here you can let me store some blanks and stuff

 

[Kevin Jenness]

They say you can never have too many clamps, the same with shop size, but we seem to manage. As a corollary to Parkinson's Law, stuff expands to fit the shop available.

 

[Russell Nugent]

I have a 12 x 20 shop. Its just big enough for what i do. Nova saturn, bandsaw, woodworking bench, tool cabinet, dust collector, wood storage, grinder, drill press, a few cabinets. I had a second lathe but sold it took up more space than was worth the convenience of having.
You didn't mention a bench of any sort, but it's definitely something you'll want.
I insulated and sheeted with OSB. I can hang anything anywhere in the shop, wall space is very important in a smaller shop like mine.

 

[John K Jordan]

Don't have the space for a full blown woodshop but I feel I could adequately put a small woodturning shed on the property.
Don't want a closet, but don't want to build space I'm not going to use....Some extra space for the stuff one forgets.

It's the extra stuff one forgets that's the choker.
The basics needed for woodturing depend somewhat on what you intend to turn.
I turn almost everything (and teach) so I wanted space for:
- Two lathes
- 2-4 grinders
- good bandsaw
- drum sander and belt/disk sander
- dust collector
- air compressor
- workbench
- more wood storage space than possible to plan for
- turning tool space, both stored and accessible at the lathe
- cabinets for tools other tools, chucks and jaws, centers, finishing supplies, sanding supplies, layout/measuring tools
(It's hard to imaging how much extra cabinet, tool boxes, and storage space needed)
- electric chainsaw for in and around the shop.

Don't cheap out on good, healthy electrical power. I ran underground power in conduit big enough for 200 amps although I use far less. Put in a breaker box with more slots than you can imagine using.

I've built three shops at three different houses. From my experience you will always fill all of the space you have. I think it's a law.

When I built the shop I have now I prepared the ground for as big a space as would be reasonable (I had to fill on one end - requires special techniques). Ended up with 24'x62'. I use it for flatwood, welding, machine shop, have an office, a lot of space for wood storage, mechanical repair and a lot of other things besides woodturning so it is quite full now. The actual space for the two lathes is about 8x12' but even without the flatwood tools I use about 12x24 if I include the bandsaw, sharpening, tools. That doesn't even begin to allow room for wood storage, cyclone dust collector, and big air compressor. I'd say build as big as you can and you won't be sorry.

I put up posts and beams, concrete floor, truss ceilings, and covered the walls inside with 1/2" ply so I could hang things anywhere. As much as I like natural light I traded windows for more wall space. Don't forget about good wiring and good lighting. And heat and air is nice, even on the islands. (Been going to Hatteras every year for almost 50 years now!)

I highly recommend doing detailed drawings of everything (I filled a notebook) but when planning the space I made paper cutouts of all the machines I needed and located them in the space before the walls even wet up. To make sure I had room to walk and move things I made cutout circles representing the space I wanted and "walked" them through my paper layouts. I'm sure this saved me a lot of grief. I also planned for every circuit and light before I built the building. Here is an example of my paper cutouts for layout planning. I moved things around for hours before I settled on the design. For some tools like the tablesaw I also considered infeed and outfeed space.

Don't forget big doors to get tools and such in and out.



This was the final building design. In practice, I use about half of the last big room (with the rollup doors) for turning wood storage, raising peacock, and tools for farm machine repair. A building 24x40 would be great if you can fit it, a little shorter if you skipped the porch and office (although a small office is invaluable)

For me, the key to satisfaction is planning, planning, planning. Once locked into the space, I did use a lot of tape and markers on the concrete to fine-tune spacing.

My ceilings are 10', 11' would have been nice.
A bathroom would have been nice.
Broadband internet and shop wifi is nice.
The heat pump is a must have for me.


The turning "nook". I put in the extra side walls just to have places to hang things.


Before the outside was painted.
I tell visitors I built this with my bare hands but I lie - I used tools.


JKJ

 

[Bill Blasic]

What ever you decide you now need to add at least 50% more.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

I would definitely get a slab if you can makes a huge difference. Here's one concern I haven't seen mentioned yet, if you get a table saw, and let's be real, you know you want one that is makes a TON of space (mixed metaphor, sorry). You need 8' behind and 8' in front and 8' width is about min. This is all open space, well the out feed can be cabinets but still.
I know what folks are thinking, why do you need a TS for woodturning, and you don't. But I used mine to build the shop, plus they are useful for jigs etc. Not to mention when your wife/partner insists that you turn a bench or an armoire.
My advise, make it as big as you can get away with. I've never heard of a shop that was too big and if it is, I'm dying over here you can let me store some blanks and stuff

I don't use a table saw a lot so I bought a Delta for $600 or so. It comes on wheels. I just push it out of the way until I need to use it. For woodturners, that's probably pretty common.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Particularly with a small and/or crowded shop, having equipment and some cabinets on wheels really helps. Things can be moved around to create room when needed, like needing to cut long lumber pieces on a saw, etc. Most all of my tools are wheel mounted, and things can be rearranged when I have a project that needs certain tools, say some flatwork that needs the table saw and router. I can move the lathe and sharpening cabinet out of the way, move the ts and router out where long pieces can be fed through etc, then put it all back when done.

 

[hockenbery]

What ever you decide you now need to add at least 50% more.

So true
I’d lean toward 100%

Those great layouts showing all your current tools, benches, and cabinets often overlook thinks that take up space.
Wood chip cart, shop vacs, hydraulic table, work mate, turning blanks in progress, ……
Then there are future acquisitions bigger bandsaw, bigger lathe, sandblast cabinet….

 

[John Chapin]

I've got a house. Don't think its my forever house.
After 4 years I miss woodworking. I like to turn quite a bit also
Don't have the space for a full blown woodshop but I feel I could adequately put a small woodturning shed on the property.
Don't want a closet, but don't want to build space I'm not going to use

Currently I own a Nova DVR which might get upgraded to a Robust. Don't know if I need anything larger than a Sweet 16
So lets say 2 medium sized lathes
2 Grinder stations
3ea. 5 ft shelving units on wheels.
Some extra space for the stuff one forgets.

12x16 or 12x20 is what I'm thinking

Comments ?

Ive had 2 shops, so my experience is only that much…
My first shop was in a 2 bedroom apartment where the 2nd bedroom was my shop. (My wife is the single most patient, tolerant person in the world btw.)
A few years ago we moved out of the city to a house. I renovated the shed in the back, creating my “dream shop”.
The dimensions of that shed are 12x16.
It meant that I could buy some bigger tools, including a bandsaw, a lathe, and a dust extractor. Stuff I had only dreamt of while using the 2nd bedroom!
In my new place I have prioritized my 300lb wooden home made roubo bench over, say, a drill press & a table saw.
Here’s my point: even if I had torn down the 12x16 shed and built a massive 36x48 building, i would have eventually filled it completely…. Just make the space for what you really must have, and add a little extra.
After all, in my little 12x16 shop I never have far to go to get something!
No matter how big your shop space is, you can fill it with tools, projects, & materials. The question really is how much walking do you want to do?
Happy pondering!

 

[Isaac Fisher]

but don't want to build space I'm not going to use

As long as your shop is smaller than a football field you probably don’t need to worry about that.

 

[John K Jordan]

As long as your shop is smaller than a football field you probably don’t need to worry about that.

Football field size - what a great idea!
I've seriously thought about adding onto the end of my shop but would require a 6' drop because of the lay of the land. Stairs?

I've instead decided to add another building about 800' away: 24x72, mostly as uninsulated garage space for tractor, excavator, skid steer, big mowers plus space for extra hay storage. But the current plan includes an insulated "building within a building" inside one end for things I don't use often but don't want to store in the barn. I cleared/leveled/graveled/ran water and power to the site over 10 years ago so that part's done.

I tell myself that the new one will finally be enough space, but will that really end it? Is it a disease?

At least the people who get this place when I'm too old to manage it will have options. With fenced fields, woods, paved roads, shop, barn & facilities for horse training and riding trails maybe someone will be interested. There are "horse people" all over.

JKJ

 

[robo hippy]

Well, many "it depends" situations here. Where I am in Oregon, I can put in a 200 sq. ft. "shed", even on a concrete slab with no permit. I would need a permit to add electrical. I have been thinking about adding one this size just for wood storage since I do flat work as well. Another requirement is that there is 5 foot clearance between all buildings and houses, but every single neighborhood I have seen, and I did construction, there are many sheds put in yards that are up right next to the fence and house. I did have a restriction on my "outbuilding" when I built my shop on my one acre plot, and with the size of my shop I wanted, I had to put a "living" area in the shop, so I built an apartment on one end of the shop and rent it out which pretty much covers my property taxes and home owner's insurance. Bigger is always better for shop size.

robo hippy

 

[Dean Center]

My shop is 10X12 with lathe, band saw, grinder, workbench, floor cabinet, shelving unit, air cleaner on the ceiling. The dust collector and vacuum pump are on the other side of a wall, wood storage is elsewhere. It's snug, but very workable. If I added 2-3 more feet on one side, I could add a second lathe and a second grinder, UNLESS I wanted to turn off the end of both lathes. Dave Landers has some really good suggestions above, that I wish someone had mentioned before I built the space.

Casters are one method lots of people in tight situations use to maximize the utility of their space.

 

[John K Jordan]

...Where I am in Oregon, I can put in a 200 sq. ft. "shed", even on a concrete slab with no permit. I would need a permit to add electrical. ......

Yikes, I forget about permits. There's a regulation here that prohibits requiring permits for and inspecting construction that can be related to agriculture and livestock, if the property is a registered farm. As well as making things from wood products from the property, I use parts of my shop for equipment maintenance and repair, medical treatment of animals and their young, as well as incubate, hatch, and raise domestic and game birds. (I think I would need a permit to put a septic system at the shop.) There's also a state sales tax exemption for feed and other farm-related things for those who qualify. And even better, the gov will pay for 75% of certain things - I built fencing and installed livestock watering under that program.

And I suspect most places have a "forestry greenbelt" or something similar: if the property is a certain minimum size and part is in woods you can ask a forester to visit, inspect, and develop a forestry plan. He walked the entire property with me and pointed out a lot I didn't know about trees, forest health, and especially invasive plants.. The county then listed the property as forestry greenbelt. The immediate effect was the property taxes were cut almost in 1/2, land, house and all. I got to work, cleared out a bunch of invasive plants, removed some damaged trees and deadwood, planted some natives.

After a couple of years on the greenbelt listing I asked the forester to come back to review what I'd done and make further recommendations. He was amazed - he said almost NO ONE on the greenbelt program does anything at all to the property - they just want the listing for the tax break. We stood in the rain chatting for at least an hour - there's a lot to learn from a pro like that!

If anyone reading this has property with some woods you might check if there's a similar program in your area.

BTW, the nastiest invasive plants here are Privet (will take over everything), Bush Honeysuckle (kills other plants arouind it), Ailanthus aka Tree of Heaven (nasty, literally stinkig, spreads rapidly), the horrible scurge of the SE: Kudzu (which we fortunately have none for now), and the plant the forester hates the most: oriental Bittersweet - chokes, kills, and even uproots trees. I had two spots where Bittersweet had formed a canopy in tall Privet so thick no light could get through. Most of these invasives were imported to the US on purpose, many from asia.. Leatherleaf Mahonia, also from asia, is spreading in the wild - some people plant it in their yard on purpose.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Sidebar, your honor?

What I tell people concerning the building code (and permits), and you'll need to visualize this statement-

I drop the code book to the floor, look down at it, tell them that's the minimum level of ____ (insert your euphemism here) you need to build to, but please feel free to do better.

The building code is a set of minimum performance benchmarks. The minimum to keep our ever increasing storm windspeeds from toppling a structure. The minimum to keep seismic activity from... toppling a structure. The minimum safety aspects to assure we can get out of a burning building. (New vs. 1950s houses, new burns a lot faster.) The minimum (or rather maximum) levels of performance to expect from weaker grades of lumber (compared to generations past) when we expect them to span taller and wider distances. The minimum to expect from man-made and engineered products. The minimum levels of energy efficiency from the shell of the structure. And on and on.

Bureaucracy? Well, that may be the perception sometimes. But with homeowners and contractors alike, I teach to the code to a far greater level than enforce to the code (barking orders of the law gets us nowhere), to help people that are willing to listen to understand the meaning and method behind the madness. I'm happy to report that they tell me, often enough anyway, that I've succeeded in helping them understand why they have to do certain things in certain ways. Sometimes they still don't like it, but they at least have a better understanding of why. Most code folks truly do want to help you succeed in a project before you even get started. Tap into that resource the next time you are jotting your ideas on that napkin. The inspector is prohibited from designing it for you, but they can get you, and keep you going, in the right direction.

Finally, if you ever have an inspector, or any code official, tell you to do something that is just sounding way out of whack, calmly and respectfully explain that you need help understanding that requirement, and to please show you the precise code section, in the book, they are referring to. If they can't produce that, they can't enforce that.

And now, back to regular programming.
-Code guy.

 

[Mark Fairchild]

Good advice from everyone. The only thing I would add is drawing it out on paper is good but actually laying it out on the ground to me is better. Locate where you want the building and get a can of marking paint or stake it out with twine. Then mark for your doors and/or windows. Get the dimensions of you equipment and mark that with paint on the inside including work benches and cabinets.
Once this is done you can physically see how much room you will have. Take a few days to make sure you have marked out every possible piece of equipment you may need in the shop.
I have told several people to do this for workshops, equipment storage, and separate garages and they all thanked me afterwards. Most increased the size of the space after doing this.
I did this with my shop which is 24 x 36 inside with a 10’ extended roof line and a lean-to all with concrete. I had the builder come look at it when it was laid out so he knew exactly what I wanted. The lean to with concrete is for future expansion, the extended roof line is so I can raise the door and not worry about rain blowing in.
I also have room to extend the building in the back if needed, which is needed now😂
View attachment 70046

Bingo! I scaled my shop on paper. Finally had it just like I wanted. Our shop Forman who is my best friend since retiring suggested laying it out full scale with spray paint. I used scale cardboard sheets to represent “stuff”.
It turned out a few things were just not going to be ideal. I finally arranged to my liking on a 18 x 30 slab. Best layout advice I ever had.

 

[Dave Landers]

The building code is a set of minimum performance benchmarks. ...

Yeah. I probably spent a bit more on insulation to meet the efficiency code, but in the end I'm happy to be warm in my shop and not waste heat.

Most code folks truly do want to help you succeed in a project before you even get started. Tap into that resource the next time you are jotting your ideas on that napkin. The inspector is prohibited from designing it for you, but they can get you, and keep you going, in the right direction.

I remember a day when my contractor and the inspector spent a half hour or so discussing screw patterns for the ceiling drywall. Whatever - but when the inspector came back, no problem - checked off easily. Similar things happened several times. Relationships like that make the inspector a part of the project rather than an adversary.

The only issue with codes that I had was the requirement for GFCI breakers. I have no problem with them as a safety device, but had to replace the ones where I plug in machines with VFDs cause they tripped immediately when the machine turned on.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Those great layouts showing all your current tools, benches, and cabinets often overlook thinks that take up space.
Wood chip cart, shop vacs, hydraulic table, work mate, turning blanks in progress, ……
Then there are future acquisitions bigger bandsaw, bigger lathe, sandblast cabinet….

A proper layout accounts for all of that, or none of it. Depends on what the owner wants, or is limited to. It takes time, thought, research, and energy to get things right.

 

[John K Jordan]

The building code is a set of minimum performance benchmarks.

That's a great point, I agree completely. As a former inspector I've seen so many things done "just enough" to get by. Too bad everything is usually about money instead of quality.

I am accused by builder friends of way overbuilding. That's ok. After adding a multi-level deck at my last house the building inspector said he wanted to send certain contractors out to learn how to build a deck. I'm not an electrician (except in Mexico) but when I wired two additions to that house the electrical inspector did the first inspection before the sheet rock was up and told me he didn't even need to come back for the final - just call him when I was done. That was far more pleasant to hear than "why'd ya do THAT?"

For my shop, I compacted in soil in 3" lifts with a load of gravel in the bucket of a wheeled skid steer, tested it properly, and built a grade beam at one corner where fill was over 1' deep. Tip: pay special attention to the roof and drainage around the build, invest in a good rotating laser level - allow for the worst downpour you can imagine and then some. The head of the architecture program at major university told us most the lawsuits concern water getting into the building - keep it out!!

I installed double rebar around the perimeter and on 12" centers in the "garage" area and poured a 6" slab. Extra rebar on ramps. (BTW, it's interesting how much more careful concrete suppliers are with the mix when I tell them I'm a concrete inspector and will have a slump cone on hand and pour cylinders for testing).



Here's a concrete tip - if having someone else prepare the rebar do NOT let them use plastic chairs - those who pour and finish concrete describe how they can feel the chairs collapse under their feet, pushing the rebar down to to bottom where it is worthless - use strong steel chairs or do like I did - position the rebar at the right level with pieces cinder block every few feet instead of chairs. (and don't forget to fasten a ground wire to the rebar before the concrete pour. Concrete guys are supposed to use a hook to pull rebar back into place but I don't trust them to do it right. I jokingly asked my concrete friend what guarantees he provided - he said he guarantees no one will steal it and that it will crack. Not one crack in the shop slab except the tiny ones as expected in the control joints.

2x6 studs on 16" centers between 6x6 posts properly concreted 3' into the ground, double and triple 2x10 top beams with diagonal bracing, hurricane ties for all trusses even for a 1-story building protected from prevailing winds by a hill - who knows what will come someday. Double 2x6 diagonal bracing from end-wall beams to central horizontal L-beam in four places down the 62' length because why not. I'm retired and work for free. Added horizontal blocking between truss bottom chords in three places in addition to the continuous L beam since I can't stand wavy bottom chords. the Sheathing on all external walls is 3 layers.

I ran #1 copper underground in conduit where #2 was specified by code (with 5hp single phase motors I wasn't satisfied with the typical 3% voltage drop.) People said that stuff is expensive! - I say the extra cost is tiny compared to the cost of the whole building. I was able to install the heat pump too which saved a bundle. And a suggestion: when putting in underground power run a couple ofethernet cables in separate conduit while you have the chance - AND install an extra 2" conduit, empty except for a rope.

BTW, one thing I'll NEVER do again is listen to advice (from two electricians) to use direct burial aluminum service cable on a long run down the horse pasture. It worked for maybe 8 years then suddenly started failing. I dug it all up and replaced it with 700' of copper in conduit. Fortunately I have the means to do it all myself. It's only rated for 100 amps at that distance but that's plenty for an equipment shed with a few lights and an air compressor and welder.



I am fortunate to have close friends who are professional builders, haulers, inspectors, and electrical utility company guys, both for consulting and who would pop occasionally and check on progress.

My advice to people who want to build their own shop is learn how to do it right or hire trusted professionals. (Wow, THAT's tough these days.)

JKJ

 

[Steve Tiedman]

The only issue with codes that I had was the requirement for GFCI breakers. I have no problem with them as a safety device, but had to replace the ones where I plug in machines with VFDs cause they tripped immediately when the machine turned on.

I've heard that a lot, arc fault and ground fault protection devices not playing nice with the high tech machines we plug into them. I have nothing to do with the electrical code, but those two things are all-encompassing anymore. Hopefully industry can create a safety device that works along with our machines, and complies with the electrical code. Constant innovation.

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

BTW, the nastiest invasive plants here are Privet (will take over everything), Bush Honeysuckle (kills other plants arouind it), Ailanthus aka Tree of Heaven (nasty, literally stinkig, spreads rapidly), the horrible scurge of the SE: Kudzu (which we fortunately have none for now), and the plant the forester hates the most: oriental Bittersweet - chokes, kills, and even uproots trees. I had two spots where Bittersweet had formed a canopy in tall Privet so thick no light could get through. Most of these invasives were imported to the US on purpose, many from asia.. Leatherleaf Mahonia, also from asia, is spreading in the wild - some people plant it in their yard on purpose.

I have 4-5 big Tree of Heaven. I haven't been eager to do the work involved in removing them. I reckon I could just cut them down and let them rot. Maybe I'll cut some for firewood after a couple of years on the ground.

 

[robo hippy]

I had forgotten about "agricultural" buildings. Can't remember exactly, but I think they can be built without a permit, but have to be open on one side. Rules are different in the country.

I did have one tree of heaven pop up in one of my sun flower beds. It has been sending out roots which send up shoots. I may have to resort to chemical warfare! There were some in a neighbor's yard, and they were coming up about 1 foot apart. Don't know if they used chemicals or just mowed them down and finally the tree gave up.

robo hippy

 

[John Grace]

I work out of a 12x14 single car garage with a; full size floor lathe, 50 gallon dust vac, full size bandsaw, a PM66 table saw, floor drill press, full size router table, roll around tool chest, full size workbench, chop saw work area, chop saw, and a SCM Minimax fc35 (combined planer/joiner). Needless to say...everything but the lathe and drill press are on mobile bases. The lathe and workbench are the only areas immediately available for work but I can readily get any machine available for work within 7-8 minutes.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

I work out of a 12x14 single car garage with a; full size floor lathe, 50 gallon dust vac, full size bandsaw, a PM66 table saw, floor drill press, full size router table, roll around tool chest, full size workbench, chop saw work area, chop saw, and a SCM Minimax fc35 (combined planer/joiner). Needless to say...everything but the lathe and drill press are on mobile bases. The lathe and workbench are the only areas immediately available for work but I can readily get any machine available for work within 7-8 minutes.

Holy smokes! I nominate @John Grace for the Highest Dedication To The Craft Award! Well done, John!

 

[Steve Tiedman]

I had forgotten about "agricultural" buildings. Can't remember exactly, but I think they can be built without a permit, but have to be open on one side. Rules are different in the country.

robo hippy

It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but buildings for true ag use (livestock, machine sheds, maybe even grain/hay storage) are often times exempt for the rationale of... if they fail, will they harm any humans? Herds and flocks are not considered in the realm of building safety like people are. If a big ag building is blown over (or collapses under snow loading, or whatever disaster), it'll probably remain on the farmer's land, somewhere. But there are quite likely lots of ag buildings out there that have designs that would not withstand the forces Nature could place upon them as required in the building codes. A timber framed barn of 200 years ago has a lot more, and a lot heavier, framework by comparison than the much larger buildings of today. The shear amount of wind force placed against these new, big ag buildings is incredible. The smart ag building designer/builder is going to have a sharp professional engineer designing for all the stresses and loads.

(Okay, I'm done. I don't want to bore anyone to death!)

 

[John K Jordan]

A timber framed barn of 200 years ago has a lot more, and a lot heavier, framework by comparison than the much larger buildings of today.

I've seen plenty of old barns on the ground in a pie of wood and roofing but others appear to be very well built.

My barn, at least150 years old, is a timber, or perhaps, a "log frame" - all the posts are cedar logs as are many of the braces., the rough sawn rafters and framing are about 3" thick, sided with oak boards. One of the posts was rotted on the bottom and roofing was missing in two corners. I found hay cut by hand with a scythe in the loft, no flooring in most of the loft, old tobacco sticks everywhere, one long tongue from a horse wagon, and a chest of gold buried in the dirt floor (just kidding). The roof line was sagging more than a foot in the middle, one end leaning out at the top over a foot. Everyone told me to tear that old thing down! No way!

I jacked up and cut off the bottom of the rotted cedar tree and replaced it with heavy 4x4 steel tubing with flats welded on each end and set in concrete. Pulled the leaning end straight with a steel cable, added extra posts, built a shed down one side, added an outdoor stall, cleaned all the rotten sheet rock, trash, and old bathtub out of the stalls, rebuilt one with insulated walls, ceiling, and floor for a feed/tack room with a dehumidifier, built new doors, ripped off the old metal roof and replaced the roof ridge board with a 2x12's, reroofed and added a 8' overhang down one side to shelter the horses, floored the loft, floored the stalls with rubber mats over gravel, added lights and outlets, Wow, what a nice barn now, sturdy, with lots of room! A fun project. Life is good.

Just outside was a cistern - I pumped about 10,000 gallons of water out so I could clean it inside but it was spotless. Hooked up a downspout and filled it again. I found another just like it on our property and three more the original farmer had installed when he owned the whole ridge.

JKJ

 

[Hugh]

Sidebar, your honor?

What I tell people concerning the building code (and permits), and you'll need to visualize this statement-

I drop the code book to the floor, look down at it, tell them that's the minimum level of ____ (insert your euphemism here) you need to build to, but please feel free to do better.

The building code is a set of minimum performance benchmarks. The minimum to keep our ever increasing storm windspeeds from toppling a structure. The minimum to keep seismic activity from... toppling a structure. The minimum safety aspects to assure we can get out of a burning building. (New vs. 1950s houses, new burns a lot faster.) The minimum (or rather maximum) levels of performance to expect from weaker grades of lumber (compared to generations past) when we expect them to span taller and wider distances. The minimum to expect from man-made and engineered products. The minimum levels of energy efficiency from the shell of the structure. And on and on.

Bureaucracy? Well, that may be the perception sometimes. But with homeowners and contractors alike, I teach to the code to a far greater level than enforce to the code (barking orders of the law gets us nowhere), to help people that are willing to listen to understand the meaning and method behind the madness. I'm happy to report that they tell me, often enough anyway, that I've succeeded in helping them understand why they have to do certain things in certain ways. Sometimes they still don't like it, but they at least have a better understanding of why. Most code folks truly do want to help you succeed in a project before you even get started. Tap into that resource the next time you are jotting your ideas on that napkin. The inspector is prohibited from designing it for you, but they can get you, and keep you going, in the right direction.

Finally, if you ever have an inspector, or any code official, tell you to do something that is just sounding way out of whack, calmly and respectfully explain that you need help understanding that requirement, and to please show you the precise code section, in the book, they are referring to. If they can't produce that, they can't enforce that.

And now, back to regular programming.
-Code guy.

When I had our house built around 2001, I had a good contractor. But, the contractor was afraid of the building inspector. I talked to the building inspector when he came to visit a few times. I felt he was there to help me get a good strong house built. Anything that the building inspector told the contractor he needed to do, only helped me get a well built house in the end. Actually, there was very little that needed to be fixed to keep the building inspector happy. Still in that house......until the day I die. Been 5 miles from a 7.3 earthquake and the house came out of it just fine. I hear horror stories from others though. My experience was just fine.

 

[Jerry Bennett]

One important consideration is creature comfort. I found out you can have the perfect size, great electrical, the best tools… everything. If because of the hot summers and cold winters you can only use that perfect shop a few months out of the year, that is not the best situation. My best investment in my shop is a couple of big window unit air conditioners and an LP heater. I can comfortably make stuff all year long.

 

[John K Jordan]

One important consideration is creature comfort.

I agree completely! After working in two unconditioned shops and in a garage with a kerosene heater in the worst of the winter, I decided to add central heat and air when building my current shop.

Here's something to consider: my heating contractor reduced the price by a lot when asked about doing the install myself. The boss was hesitant at first until he came to measure things and saw how I'd built the shop and decided I wouldn't just mess things up. He provided all the materials with the pre-formed plenums, etc. I assembled, and installed the ductwork and diffusers in the ceiling, insulated everything, wired the inside and outside units, even ran the AC drain pipe. He supplied and delivered everything needed, even loaned me a crimping tool. When all was ready, the tech came, charged and tested. What a deal!

If so inclined, maybe ask your HVAC guy.

I keep the thermostat set to about 68-69 in the winter and 79-80 in the summer and I'm always comfortable. The humidity is pretty stable too. (our climate may be milder than yours in the summer!)

It is really the best thing I did - like you I can work comfortably year around. Good for the computers, books, musical instruments, tools, and turning blanks too. It's a much smaller unit than in the house so the cost wasn't unreasonable. A couple of window or wall units might be even cheaper and easy to install.

JKJ

 

[robo hippy]

I did a foundation/stem wall for an electrician years ago, and it was an "agricultural" building. He told us not to put anchor bolts in the wall. We tried to convince him otherwise. Well, needlessly to say, first winter storm was blowing right into the building, and away it went.... Just a big parachute.... He should have known better.

robo hippy