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Wonderful symposium

john lucas

AAW Forum Expert
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Well im still digesting all that i learned. I had a wonderful time. I think it was a well run symposium and want to thank all the very helpful volunteers. The only problem i had was finding how to get into the building the first time. Well that and finding the parking lot i parked in when i tried to leave the first night. That wasnt there fault of course. The rest was very well organized with good signage to find everything.
The videographers on the demos i sat through were wonderful as were the demonstrators.
Thank you all for all the hard work
 
I agree with you on most John. It was good to talk to you and the panel on Digital Photography was excellent. I think the video displays need some work such as use led tv instead of projection. That front to back split on level 3 demo rooms was hard to figure the first time. I really enjoyed the Chapters meeting and got some great info to bring home. I thought the French artists gave a totaly new twist to turning. Did not take long to pick the really good demo where the demonstrator knew how to work with camera and sound mostly with lots of direction from the camera man and sometimes interpretation from him.

Viewing all that work and meeting the turners was a fantastic part of the whole trip.

Did not think I would go to KC , but now considering it.
 
Yea, it was great to actually meet you John. I really wish there was a way for a bunch of us to have a play date where we all bring our tools and swap them with each other and turn for a full day....

Down town Atlanta was pretty, clean, and friendly. Had fun chatting with the taxi driver about the old Death Race 2000 movie.....

robo hippy
 
John L, I got to shake your hand (I think) with Ralph Watts, as I was running from one building to the other.

For those of you who saw the demos in 203A/203B, with the single camera on dolly and the two big screen TVs, would you prefer that sort of video display, or the video displays in the rooms in the 204 wing?

I'm one of the videography volunteers, and the committee is very much interested in the audience experience. From my perspective, the quality of the video with the flat screen TV is better (you don't need to dim the room lights; you're not at the mercy of the A/V contractor who provides the projectors)--but the single camera setup on dolly requires more training for the camera volunteer than the traditional 2-camera rig (overhead camera + tripod cam; switchbox to video projector).
 
For those of you who saw the demos in 203A/203B, with the single camera on dolly and the two big screen TVs, would you prefer that sort of video display, or the video displays in the rooms in the 204 wing?

Hy,
I saw most of one demo by Jason breach and the presentation by Alan Zenriech Thursday night.
The video monitors were great for that room. I was in the 3rd row. The 203A and 203B rooms were two of the smaller rooms and smaller than we like to use for demos. Jason breach needed a larger room. We miss judged on how popular his demos would be and I saw Jason's demo standing along the back wall leaning on boxes

1. I would not have been able to read Alan's slides from the back half of a larger room such as 204D

2. In Jason's demo there were no shots of the tool on the wood inside the box. The camera did not get low enough to look inside the box. May be the operator or maybe it is the boom.
A tripod drops the camera down to the level you want. The boom axis looked higher than it might need to be.

3. The video was bright and clear.

In a large room you would need a much bigger screen or screens down the side. Screens down the side would take ups seats.
Great for smaller rooms 5 rows of seats. Maybe 6 rows?
Stick with the projectors in any room over 6 rows of seats.

Thanks for helping out at the symposium.
Al
 
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Al,

You were not there on Sunday afternoon when I subbed in Jason Breach's room. I got the camera low to look into the box as he was hollowing it out. It took me a while to articulate it to get there (I think I actually stopped Jason for 30 seconds or so, so that I could reposition the camera).

Rick Baker can drive the articulated camera like nobody's business. Few of the other operators of that system were as experienced.

I subbed Sunday morning to do Jean Francois Escoulen in one of the 204's (with dual projectors). Jean Francois moves like greased lightning on steroids, but I was able to get a couple of really good close-ups of his detail gouge and the shadow for his multi-axis work; I needed help from an audience member (I don't think I had a demo assistant), because I couldn't see the screens when I was re-adjusting the overhead cam.

I wish I'd had the time to stop by Saturday morning with your sandcarving demo, but I was one of Ana L's gofers, and acting like a headless chicken 🙂

I appreciate the feedback that the big screen TV's are still too small. I'll make sure Ana is aware of that as she discusses the Kansas City video plans.

Best,

Hy
 
One advantage of the 203B setup with the two video monitors is that the room lights could be kept on.
This makes for more even lighting of the demonstrator and lathe, and the presenter can more easily see and interact with the audience. I spent time in/with the audience taking and answering questions (and recording this interaction, so having the lights on was great.)

One thing that could have been improved: the monitors could have been tilted down a bit to avoid the reflections of the ceiling lights. Larger screens, of course would be better.

Also keep in mind that in my special interest session, although Rick Baker was recording on his boom camera, his video was not being shown on the monitors.

Because my session was about rethinking possibilities during demonstrations, the monitors displayed only the video from MY computer's video mixer software. I was able to switch between any combination of A LOT of equipment I brought with me (to show the wide variety of tools available). I displayed (and recorded) my four live cameras, two iPhones as cameras (one on a remote controlled pan/tilt head, and on the other I showed the inside of a small hollow form... a very neat and useful trick), a PowerPoint deck, recorded video and still images, as well as cameras attached to two other computers in the room. Cool toys.

I hope to combine the footage I recorded with the footage that Rick recorded and publish the session for those who missed it, or want to review the material.

On a related topic... Just as demonstrators can use head mounted microphones to augment their sound, AUDIENCE MEMBERS can augment their experience... by carrying small binoculars. Lauren and I do this at symposiums, so we can see detail on the screen from a distance, or see close ups of the tool presentation. There's a reason folks use opera glasses at the theater!

We get some odd looks when we take out our binoculars, but Lauren likes to pass hers around to folks sitting near her, and they always seem to nod in approval after trying the augmented vision.
 
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I really enjoyed Al Hockenbery's sand carving session. However, the video was, well, challenging.
Aside from the low resolution setup, the lighting was pretty spotty, and there were cabling issues that kept disconnecting the video feed. The cameraman did the best he could, but it was distracting from an otherwise very good demonstration.
 
To echo the last two responses. The TV's gave a great picture. The good lighting in 203 may have contributed because the lighting in 204 was terrible. Larger TV or more of them would help in large room. Also as relates to words on screen I think that could be handled with larger fonts. Camera work was great just even an Oscar winning cameraman could not overcome the lighting and reflection on the projected screens (which made one side of the room screen useless).The last rotation I went to the demonstrator had worked the whole symposium with no auxillary light to see inside the boxes. Oh by the way the Moffat lights cause a glare on either the camera or audience eyes.......Please get those changed for led lathe lights.

Looking forward to improvements next year.
 
John L, I got to shake your hand (I think) with Ralph Watts, as I was running from one building to the other.

For those of you who saw the demos in 203A/203B, with the single camera on dolly and the two big screen TVs, would you prefer that sort of video display, or the video displays in the rooms in the 204 wing?

I'm one of the videography volunteers, and the committee is very much interested in the audience experience. From my perspective, the quality of the video with the flat screen TV is better (you don't need to dim the room lights; you're not at the mercy of the A/V contractor who provides the projectors)--but the single camera setup on dolly requires more training for the camera volunteer than the traditional 2-camera rig (overhead camera + tripod cam; switchbox to video projector).

I did get some look at both of those. I didn't really like either of the setups mostly because the audio was significantly lacking in clarity and levels. The light levels should be dimmed if it's needed or not to help with the production level.

Single camera or multiples it really makes no difference but what does matter to the utmost level is when the demonstrator is trying to show one thing and his camera person is focusing on words in the handout booklet, in other words being in sync is a must. You can throw the best equipment at the problem but if it's not used correctly then that's a huge problem and one that needs to be addressed.

As someone who has hearing loss I have to say I was very much disappointed in the overall A/V side to the demos that I saw. I did walk out of several due to these problems.
 
I really enjoyed Al Hockenbery's sand carving session. However, the video was, well, challenging.
Aside from the low resolution setup, the lighting was pretty spotty, and there were cabling issues that kept disconnecting the video feed
Alan nice to have an opportunity to chat.
The camera had to move to four times. Three preset cameras could have made it seemless.
The boom might have worked well. There were problems with both demos. In one demo there was tripping over cords for excitement and in the other the cable came undone just a bit so that I kept working and failing requiring severAl times to get it fixed. It seemed a lot longer than it was. It does disrupt the flow.
 
A couple of video notes.
I was a videographer in 204J for Mark Sfirri and Dale Larson.
The led lights that were set up had to be replaced with incandescent at the request of the demonstrators.
The lighting for the camera was great.
The led's were causing a strobe effect with the multi axis turnings, freezing and/or slowing and reversing the apparent rotation of the piece.
Maybe good for something, but disturbing to the demonstrator.
We did have a dual projector set up and could have shown the powerpoint/photos on one and the presenter on the other.
In some cases there was a white board and a powerpoint so I switched back and forth.
The goal was to maximize the Demonstrators ability to get their point across to the audience.
Not always and easy task. My goal also was to minimize "shaky cam " , mostly successful.

The boom cam was very interesting. It allows for more flexibility with camera position with the trade off of being something of a distraction.
I liked the HD screens and feel that even a smaller size display conferred as much information as a dim, somewhat blurry big screen.
I think that having the displays closer to the floor would have helped. I saw Jason Breach demo his pagoda box and though that I was looking up to the front corners more that looking at him. I was in the back of the room, but still had a good view of Jason. A bit distracting.

Rumor has it that there will be more high def displays next year. That will be nice.
 
When I showed PowerPoint from my IPad I ran the RGB output through a converter box to RCA into the camera switch. 3 on the remote was the iPad, 1 and 2 were cameras.

Ron Browning set me up with one to use at the Florida symposium. It worked great so I bought 2 on Amazon for $15 each gave one to our club and kept the other for demos where I can use it.
To sell them that cheap, neither came with a 5 volt charger. They come with the USB charger cable but the buyer has to supply a phone or iPod transformer plug.

I have done lots of demos where showing PowerPoint is done by selecting input on the display device.
That makes an awkward delay. So I usually show slides at the beginning to have one change.

Not as fancy as Alan Z showing PowerPoint with a little Alan talking in the corner of the slide.
That was a professional look and feel.

Al
 
We tried the input to the switch box from a mac and a ps.
The picture was in black and white and we did not have time to mess with the settings on the vga to composite adapter.
That would have been the preferred solution. They had plenty of converters, but not the time to work with the demonstrator and their computer and the converter before show time. You were lucky to have had previous experience with them.
I use input converters at work every day, but they are a lot more expensive/powerful/flexible than the ones we had.
I am just glad that we were able to hook the laptops up to the projectors without violating rules that the sound & video vendors would make an issue about.
In all honesty, unless the AAW was using the equipment for more than one weekend a year, what they have is adequate.
There is always room for improvement.
 
I use input converters at work every day, but they are a lot more expensive/powerful/flexible than the ones we had.
I am just glad that we were able to hook the laptops up to the projectors without violating rules that the sound & video vendors would make an issue about.
In all honesty, unless the AAW was using the equipment for more than one weekend a year, what they have is adequate.
There is always room for improvement.
era
Mark that brings up a good point and a difficult one since we are dealing with volunteers. Training is essential to all roles. Would we have someone demonstrate who have never done the piece. Why not have anyone on camera to get a 2 hour seminar. Not enough I know from all the years I have taken pictures and still so much to learn, but a beginning.
 
The picture was in black and white and we did not have time to mess with the settings on the vga to composite adapter.
Mark,
Had you Time to mess with it, it most likely Is the video standard setting.
I have no idea what it should be. Mine has 2 dip switches. In 4 tries or less I get a color picture and stop.

Al
 
Mark,
Had you Time to mess with it, it most likely Is the video standard setting.
I have no idea what it should be. Mine has 2 dip switches. In 4 tries or less I get a color picture and stop.

Al

Al What is the name and model number of the switch you are using?
 
Whoa! That scared me...saw the "You purchased this item..." and forgot I reading your stuff.😕😱 Thanks for posting it though, my current laptop is a very fancy one, but no HDMI (a business model, guess they didn't think it was needed). The converter would be great.
 
Thanks Al , That is a VGA converter, I thought you had a switcher. I can skip the converter because both TV and laptop have HDMI. Looking for less expensive to stitch between 2 cameras.

Gerald, inexpensive HDMI switch units typically have a delay (2 to 8 seconds) when switching cameras due to the signal handshaking between the camera and the display. Switches that cache the handshake credentials are rather expensive, and that's just one of the reasons I use a computer for camera switching/mixing. Drop me a line if you like and we can discuss the options.
 
Whoa! That scared me...saw the "You purchased this item..." and forgot I reading your stuff.😕😱 Thanks for posting it though, my current laptop is a very fancy one, but no HDMI (a business model, guess they didn't think it was needed). The converter would be great.

My MS Surface Pro only has a mini displayport for video out. I bought a mini displayport to HDMI cable and it works great. I had also bought a mini displayport to VGA cable but it sometimes doesn't work, depending on the projector/monitor. Unfortunately, some older equipment, like projectors, don't have HDMI input. Then you are stuck with VGA. However, all the flat panel monitors/TV have HDMI.
 
Andy, another approach is to add an HDMI to VGA adapter to the end of the DisplayPort to HDMI converter. The newer versions don't require external power and work very well.
 
Jet introduced the 1840.
I got quite a tour of the new machine.

The 1840 has a 2HP motor at $3k they should sell a bunch
Sliding headstock swivels 360.
It has a short bed that attaches lower on either end to give what looked like a 24" or 30" swing.
The spindle nose is moved out so you can turn on the headstock side of the work.
Adjustable height. Banjo uses locking wedge like the first powermatic 3520s did.
Extra emergency stop at the end of the bed.
A great looking machine at a nice price point.

They also had a prototype of an optional DVR motor. There is a belt driving the spindle but no belt change. The speed control has a dial. The dial clicks as you turn it. On click is 10 rpm
Push the dial in and each click is 100 Rpm - a complete turn of the dial pushed I would go from 0 to max speed. An intriging thing they are working on is 96 position electronic indexing. Set the dial to a number it will turn the spindle and stop. To layout something every 120 degrees set the dial to
32 and draw lines or drill holes ... The repeat moving the dial to 64, 96.
 
era
Mark that brings up a good point and a difficult one since we are dealing with volunteers. Training is essential to all roles. Would we have someone demonstrate who have never done the piece. Why not have anyone on camera to get a 2 hour seminar. Not enough I know from all the years I have taken pictures and still so much to learn, but a beginning.

Hello, Gerald (Hi, Mark!!!), we did do camera training. We did not do powerpoint training, mainly because we don't know who is bringing what kind of equipment with what kind of adapter. The folks in the 203 rooms (I won't mention names) were all good, even with learning new hand-eye coordination. I know that the video lead expects the camera operator to have experience doing video; I believe all the video team members are regular club video operators. The symposium rig is actually easier to run than my club's camera rig. (Harder to set up, but a lot easier to shoot). One of the things we did both in Pittsburgh and Atlanta, is to have the same operator working with a demonstrator multiple times, to enhance teamwork. I caught a couple of minutes of one of Mark Sfirri's (probably after the light bulb change), and I thought Mark W did a great job in the few minutes I was in the back of the room.

That said, your input is well taken. In planning for 2017 (and 2018), we'll try to do more small-group training with more hands-on.

All: On-the-spot feedback will generate an effort to sort things out. In one of the rooms, the sound level was too high. Once we realized that, we pulled an A/V tech, who dialed the sound back. We had the opposite problem in another room. This is because the demonstrators use different voice volumes, and some just put the microphone far away from their mouth. We can't always fix things on the spot, but we need to know that there are items that need to be fixed.

Allan Z and Al H: When we finally sorted out the technology issues with Jason Breach's orbital arc boxes, we were using a HDMI switch which had only a second or so switching delay from the powerpoint to the camcorder for the HDTVs. I think it was an inexpensive powered HDMI switch.

In many ways, video is like mounting your workpiece. There are many methods (switch box, running all through PC, HDMI to VGA, VGA to HDMI, etc., vs worm screw, drive center, tenon-and-chuck, recess-and-chuck, faceplate, sacrificial foot, etc.). All of them can be made to work, but some are easier than others.
 
Hy thanks for the response. I was only speaking of what I saw and yes I saw some technical problems I did not mention because they were quickly cleared. I do believe the the most urgent need is to come up with a display that does not have glare or wash out due to room lights, from all positions in the room.
 
Al The 1840 Jet also has 3 bearings on the headstock. A motor that senses the torque and works so well they only have one pulley so you never have to change the belts. The tailstock quill also has Acme threads which should make it last forever and will be faster to feed and retract. A lot of nice features. I had 3 of the Powermatic and Jet engineers over to our club shop for a couple of days of lessons. They got to turn on 3 different lathes over the weekend and we gave them an earful about what we thought were good and bad. Each one had an individual instructor after I did the initial demo. Apparently they listened.
 
John,
I was quite impressed with the machine. I remember them telling me about using two bearing in the front of the spindle so they could move the nose out.
Also the direct drive belt you don't change. A lot of machine for $3k.

It could be the only lathe 80% of the turners out there ever need.

I asked them partly joking why would anyone buy a powermatic.
They said just wait.......
 
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