Wolverine grinding jig and Vari--Grind questions

[Barry Larson]

So, I have a Wolverine grinding jig installed on my 8 inch grinder. I have two questions, one related to the installation and one related to the Vari-Grind accessories.
On my grinder I measure about 7 inches from the wheel center to the guide holders as opposed to the 6-1/4 to 6-1/2 mentioned in the instructions. Since this appears (from the instructions) to be a minimum will the extra height matter or should I put a half inch shim under the holders to raise them to the suggested distance?
Second question. I managed to successfully grind a bowl gouge (basically duplicated the factory grind) on a Robert Sorby 3/8 inch bowl gouge I bought used for practice - so far so good. I am thinking about being a bit more adventurous and trying the Vari-Grind attachment. Which of the two models available is preferable and why? Any and all information is appreciated. Thank you.
Barry W. Larson
Calgary, Alberta, Canada eh!

 

[Richard Coers]

I prefer the original design of the Vari-Grind. If I can't concentrate enough to keep the gouge on the grinding wheel, I shouldn't be using machinery. I had to shim up my grinder to even get the Wolverine bases in. 1/2" difference won't make any difference at all.

 

[GRJensen]

I prefer the Varigrind 1 (the original). The VG2 is, in my opinion, too restrictive, especially when I want to put a secondary (relief) bevel on the gouge. As for the height, I would do whatever was necessary to get the guide holders the recommended distance from the wheel.

 

[Barry Larson]

I prefer the original design of the Vari-Grind. If I can't concentrate enough to keep the gouge on the grinding wheel, I shouldn't be using machinery. I had to shim up my grinder to even get the Wolverine bases in. 1/2" difference won't make any difference at all.

Thanks Richard. It seemed to work fine as installed, but I thought I'd inquire.
Be safe and stay well.
Barry

 

[Barry Larson]

I prefer the Varigrind 1 (the original). The VG2 is, in my opinion, too restrictive, especially when I want to put a secondary (relief) bevel on the gouge. As for the height, I would do whatever was necessary to get the guide holders the recommended distance from the wheel.

Thanks GR. Comparing the two forms of the Vari-Grind this is the impression I got - the Vari-Grind 1 is a bit more flexible. Of course this means you need to pay more attention!
Be safe and stay well.
 Barry

 

[Dean Center]

When discussed on the forum in the past, the original Varigrind jig is strongly preferred over the Varigrind 2.

I also would recommend shimming up your rails to the specified distance. All of the recommendations and techniques you will come across on how to use the system to sharpen assume this part of the geometry. You will spend a great deal of time and energy figuring out your own solutions if you go your own way, and that time and energy could instead be spent making stuff on your lathe, which is the point of all this, after all.

 

[Barry Larson]

When discussed on the forum in the past, the original Varigrind jig is strongly preferred over the Varigrind 2.

I also would recommend shimming up your rails to the specified distance. All of the recommendations and techniques you will come across on how to use the system to sharpen assume this part of the geometry. You will spend a great deal of time and energy figuring out your own solutions if you go your own way, and that time and energy could instead be spent making stuff on your lathe, which is the point of all this, after all.

Thanks Dean. Actually the folks at Oneway recommended I shim the holders up, especially if using the wheel dresser which is (apparently) where this distance is critical. It is apparently less important for just sharpening. I just happen to have some 5/8 ply handy, so off to make some shims as I consider grinding wheel maintainance to be an important part of sharpening.
Be safe and stay well.
Barry

 

[hockenbery]

Actually the folks at Oneway recommended I shim the holders up,

Not shimming is a potential safety concern.
You always want to avoid sharpening close to the center of the wheel which has a risk of pulling the tool below center ant taking you hand into the wheel.
Higher slides will have you Sharpening well above center.

 

[Neil S]

Besides the safety issue, getting the tool holder too far off the recommended height from wheel centre will change the geometry of your grinds. The length of the gouge jig swing leg is determined by the recommended height of the slide base in relation to the centre of the wheel. There is a bit of tolerance, but not a lot. Getting the slide base height right is one thing I'm quite fussy about.

 

[odie]

Second question. I managed to successfully grind a bowl gouge (basically duplicated the factory grind) on a Robert Sorby 3/8 inch bowl gouge I bought used for practice - so far so good. I am thinking about being a bit more adventurous and trying the Vari-Grind attachment. Which of the two models available is preferable and why? Any and all information is appreciated. Thank you.

Hi Barry......just some additional food for thought here.

How, or what method did you use to get this "Sorby factory grind" duplicated?

I have been actively turning bowls for the past 41 years now. These days, I'm doing all my gouge grinds using the Wolverine V-arm, and revolving the gouge on it's longitudinal axis. This method is known as the "traditional grind". A variety of possible variations on this "traditional grind" are possible by using this method. This evolution is after I had used the Vari-grind 1 jig exclusively for more than a decade before I went back to my "roots" with the more traditional grind....a grind that I had initially used back in the 1980's and 1990's. What I've found is it's all about getting a fine cutting edge to the wood with the best possible presentation, and has very little to do with any advantages the more popular swept back grinds perceivably have.....even though the swept back grinds are overwhelmingly used these days by other woodturners. Check out the links in my "signature line" below, and you can get an idea of the kind of performance I'm getting with the traditional ground gouge....every one of them that was done in the past decade, was done by exclusively using the traditional ground gouge.

My advice to you, is to go ahead and get that Vari-grind jig, and try the swept back grinds that are so popular today......but, you should not abandon experimenting with the traditional grind using only the v-arm. Get familiar with both and what both are capable of doing.....both at the grinder, and on the lathe, where it really counts.

You are likely to get a lot of push-back on what I'm telling you here, but the above is what I believe after my own long-term experiences with the Vari-Grind 1, and the more current swept back grinds it is capable of producing.

-o-

 

[Barry Larson]

Hi Barry......just some additional food for thought here.

How, or what method did you use to get this "Sorby factory grind" duplicated?

I have been actively turning bowls for the past 41 years now. These days, I'm doing all my gouge grinds using the Wolverine V-arm, and revolving the gouge on it's longitudinal axis. This method is known as the "traditional grind". A variety of possible variations on this "traditional grind" is possible by using this method. This is after I used the Vari-grind 1 jig exclusively for more than a decade before I went back to my "roots" with the more traditional grind that I had initially used back in the 1980's and 90's. What I've found is it's all about getting a fine cutting edge to the wood with the best possible presentation, and has very little to do with any advantages the hybrid swept back grinds perceivably have, even though the swept back grinds are more universally used these days by other woodturners. Check out the links in my "signature line" below, and you can get an idea of the kind of performance I'm getting with the traditional ground gouge....every one of them that was done in the past decade was done exclusively using the traditional ground gouge.

My advice to you, is to go ahead and get that Vari-grind jig, and try the swept back grinds that are so popular today......but, you should not abandon experimenting with the traditional grind using only the v-arm. Get familiar with both and what both are capable of doing.....both at the grinder, and on the lathe, where it really counts.

You are likely to get a lot of push-back on what I'm telling you here, but the above is what I believe after my own long-term experiences with the Vari-Grind 1, and the more current swept back grinds it is capable of producing.

-o-

Thanks Odie. I basically used the vee-arm as you suggest. I first blackened the edge with a marker and set the vee-arm distance by rotating the wheel by hand till the black was removed from the tool edge to the bottom of the bevel - then I lightly ground the edge by rotating the tool in the vee-arm. Not too scientific but didn't require the use of a sine bar and precision inclinometer to set up the grinder! The bevel appeared to wind up similar to the original - as near as I can tell by eye anyway. I should note that this was a standard bowl gouge as I haven't graduated to anything fancier yet.
I have a question for you regarding your Wolverine set-up. I believe you have the same Delta grinder (8 inch?) that I do and I note you don't have any shims under the tool bases. What distance do you have from wheel center to the platform? Mine measures about 7 inches.
I plan to do more experimenting with gouge grinds and bevel angles, but first I plan to work on sharpening and using the classic style and once I've gained some proficiency I'll see about other types of gouges/grinds.
Thanks again for the advice. It is appreciated!
Be safe and stay well.
Barry

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

Not quite on the topic at hand, but if you are setting up the varigrind system system with CBN wheels (which will maintain a fixed diameter), take the trouble to make sure that the distance between the wheel and the V-arm "pocket" is exactly the same for both wheels. Then whatever gismo you use to set the nose angle for one wheel will also work for the other wheel.

 

[odie]

I believe you have the same Delta grinder (8 inch?) that I do and I note you don't have any shims under the tool bases. What distance do you have from wheel center to the platform? Mine measures about 7 inches.

You are quite welcome, Barry.....

I'll have to get back to you with a measurement. Yes, it's a Delta 8" slow speed grinder. I believe @Bill Boehme also has this grinder. AFAIK, it's been out of production for quite some time now.

-o-

 

[Barry Larson]

Hi Odie:
Actually mine is the regular speed model so it might pre-date yours. I bought this grinder before the slo-speed, variable speed grinders became vogue. I'll likely upgrade to a low speed grinder at some point, but I've used this enough on carbon steel to have learned how to avoid burning edges (as long as I pay attention!), so I think I can get by with this grinder for awhile. I did upgrade to softer Norton wheels which really make a difference.
Be safe and stay well.
Barry

 

[Bill Boehme]

Hi Odie:
Actually mine is the regular speed model so it might pre-date yours. I bought this grinder before the slo-speed, variable speed grinders became vogue. I'll likely upgrade to a low speed grinder at some point, but I've used this enough on carbon steel to have learned how to avoid burning edges (as long as I pay attention!), so I think I can get by with this grinder for awhile. I did upgrade to softer Norton wheels which really make a difference.
Be safe and stay well.
Barry

As Odie said, we have the same Delta grinder (¾ HP, 1750 RPM). I bought mine about twenty years ago. Just to clarify some grinder terminology that woodturners commonly use, "slow speed" isn't exactly slow (four-pole AC induction motor that runs at approximately 1750 RPM), but it is half the speed of a "high speed" grinder (two-pole AC induction motor that runs at approximately 3500 RPM). Woodturners typically prefer four-pole motors because they have much lower torque-ripple than two-pole motors (i.e., they run smoother) and lower vibration from grinding wheels that are not perfectly mass balanced).

The Delta variable speed grinders that came along later were smaller ½HP motors with a special winding configuration that enabled the speed to be adjusted over the range of 1750 to 3500 RPM. My opinion is that it was mostly an overpriced solution looking for a non-existent problem.

I have a Tormek wet grinder that runs at 90 RPM, which I consider to be "real-world slow speed" grinding.

 

[odie]

What distance do you have from wheel center to the platform? Mine measures about 7 inches.

Barry....Without taking off the side cover, and just "eyeballing" it with a ruler held to the platform.....mine also measures very close to 7".

-o-

 

[Barry Larson]

Barry....Without taking off the side cover, and just "eyeballing" it with a ruler held to the platform.....mine also measures very close to 7".

-o-

Thanks Odie.
Be safe and stay well.
Barry