Wipe on poly?

[John Torchick]

I have Lowe's, Ace hardware, and a Woodcraft store available. I see that a lot of turners use this finish. Looking to do more turning this year so i want to have a nice finish on my turning. I figure a good finish will cover up a lousy turning. 😛

 

[Dwight R Rutherford]

Are you looking for a brand name to use?

 

[hockenbery]

I have Lowe's, Ace hardware, and a Woodcraft store available. I see that a lot of turners use this finish. Looking to do more turning this year so i want to have a nice finish on my turning. I figure a good finish will cover up a lousy turning. 😛

I know you joking about the 🙂 cover up🙂
A good finish begins with a good wood surface.
A high gloss finish like wipe on poly will show any imperfection in the turning and sanding more than a soft oil finish will.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Al is right. A glossy varnish will reveal the surface quality of the wood in all its glory ... or scratched and gashed gore whichever applies. Trying to repair things after a varnish has been applied will require far more effort with poorer results than getting the wood properly finished before applying a finish.

I don't use varnish on turnings, but I do use it on flat woodworking projects. I make my own WOP by mixing equal amounts of varnish with naphtha. You could use mineral spirits instead of naphtha, but it will take much longer to dry.

 

[Ed Sandle]

I also would agree of trying an oil finish, such as Watco Danish oil. It's easy to use, apply liberally, let sit for ten to fifteen minutes, wipe, then wipe every 15 min for the next hour. Can apply a second coat the next day, if you feel the need to. If you are looking for a glossy look, a wipe on poly is a good choice, but understand you will probably be putting on 4-6 coats, with sanding in between. You also can do an oil finish first, wait 3-4 days to cure, then use a wipe on poly. You can easily make your own wipe on poly. A good finish takes time, for me, I spend as much or more on the finish, as the turning. A glossy finish has it's place in turnings, but not all good turnings should be glossy.

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

I've been using Minwax Wipe on polly high gloss from Lowe's. I've mainly used it on spalted wood. I like it but have not tried other brands.

 

[john lucas]

I've been using minwax wipe on poly every since I moved and decided to quite spraying finish. Sanding is ultra ultra important. If you sand well enough virtually any finish will work and I've tried a lot. I settled on the minwax because it's easy for me to buy locally. My one complaint with Minwax and Watco is I rarely get through a full can before it starts to get too thick and ready to toss. I have tried various ways to decant half the can into another container, or things like putting marbles in to take up the air space (too much hassle) squirting some of that spray that's supposed to extend the life, ( too expensive and that means I have to be religious about doing it). It's just easier for me to simply use it until it starts to not wipe on as easily which means it's starting to gel and then just go buy another can. Since I can buy it locally easily that's what I do.

 

[Justin Stephen]

Why not both? 🙂 My go to finish on my platters is an oil/varnish first (usually three coats in three days) followed by a day off and then two topcoats of wipe on poly gloss in two days. A couple of 0000 steel wool rubs get mixed in there as well.

This, IMHO, gives a richer appearance than poly alone. It is also probably a little more forgiving than poly alone for imperfections, but good sanding is still pretty critical as John and others have mentioned.

 

[John Torchick]

Thanks to all. Will read again to get it set in my little mind.
John, have you thought of Bloxygen that displaces the air in the container? Woodcraft has it, not sure about places.

 

[john lucas]

I used the bloxygen. It seemed to work but it's not real cheap so I'm not sure I saved any money by just tossing what was left in the can of Poly. I even tried breathing into the can which supposedly replaces some of the oxygen. That didn't do much other that make me dizzy. 🙂

 

[Raul McCai]

I make my own WOP by mixing equal amounts of varnish with naphtha.

And a lot of fresh air I hope. The naptha is a really neat trick.
I've gone over to the dark side for commercially produced finishes. I only use water based my fav' is GF precat. On most turnings I use BLO and wax.

 

[Bill Boehme]

And a lot of fresh air I hope. The naptha is a really neat trick.
I've gone over to the dark side for commercially produced finishes. I only use water based my fav' is GF precat. On most turnings I use BLO and wax.

I generally do all of my finishing outdoors so fresh air is not a problem. However, rain, wind, bugs, humidity, and temperature can be a problem. I got my recipe from a professional furniture restorer about twenty years ago. He preferred Varathane interior oil based polyurethane varnish back then, but any high quality varnish will be fine. Originally it was made by Flecto, but I see that it's now is a Rustoleum product. The coats are really thin so a minimum of three coats and preferably five or six coats are needed. Contrary to popular myth, sanding between coats isn't needed if applied within a couple days or so. I generally wiped on two very thin applications per day. Polymerization isn't complete when the finish feels dry in a few hours. The cross-linking goes on for at least a week or two. During that time, polyurethane is still quite soft beneath the surface and sanding can make a murky mess.

I know that the water based varnishes and lacquers are a huge improvement over what they were twenty years ago, but horrible results back then is still stuck in my craw. I tried some water based spray lacquer a couple years ago and the results were sort of OK, but nothing to write home about.

 

[Raul McCai]

He preferred Varathane

I remember Varathane. Rustoleum purchased it.
I was all about alkyd polyurethanes for so long. A few years ago a guy turned me on to General Finishes and I did a whole project in it (found here: http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/zydaco/library/The Shop/A box?sort=3&page=1 ) Forgive the photo-bucket link I'm transitioning to Smugmug.

I built five of those jewelry boxes and finished them all with GF pre cat 181. It's meant to be sprayed but I brushed it. The stuff dries Dust Proof in mere minutes. That blew me away. The brushes wash out in water and soap and Let me tell you, that alone was a god send. But the Dust proof in mere minutes part was the seal on the deal. I struggled every single time I applied Polyurethane. Poly tarps you name it. I always got contamination. My shop, at the time of that project, was lousy with dust. I had no DC and never swept up and had fans running all the time. I'll never use Poly-U again absent some compelling reason.

 

[Bill Boehme]

SmugMug is really nice. I've been seriously considering them for a couple years, but inertia has me stuck on PBase. PBase was popular a decade ago, but they are a Mom & Pop business and have been left in the dust. A lot of my fellow club memberfs use GF products. I need to give them a shot. Mostly I have been using pre cat rattle can lacquer.

 

[John Torchick]

John, try eating at least two cloves of garlic before breathing into the container. 😳

 

[Dwight R Rutherford]

I have used "Stop Loss Bags" with some success. Have a bag each of Minwax Wipe on Poly and Watco that are still good after 1 1/2 years. Anyone have similar experiences?

 

[Raul McCai]

have used "Stop Loss Bags" with some success

I was using poly bags before oh gosh How long have decent poly bags been on the market? Yah that long. Empty the can into a bag, put the bag back in the can, squeeze out the air, tie off the bag, and replace the lid, that's it. O2 permeates most plastics ( that's why there are barrier materials like Eval for food processing) but it does slow it down. I've never seen poly bags available at retail made from Eval.

 

[john lucas]

I haven't used the stop loss bags yet. I have tried other plastic containers. I bought some that I thought would work, they are used in camping to store things like peanut butter, jelly and other things. They have a roll up bottom to keep the air out. Apparently the air goes through the bag because it eventually went bad anyway.

 

[hockenbery]

I use the plastic water bottle for waterlox.
Squeeze all the air out and turn the cap as a little finish is coming out.
When the get near empty I fold the bottom up so it can be squeezed quite flat.

 

[Bill Boehme]

John, try eating at least two cloves of garlic before breathing into the container. 😳

Bad air doesn't work any better than good air unless you are wanting to keep werewolves and most people away.

Finishes eventually become too old to be used even if they've never been opened. My experience is that storing a prpperly sealed container in an air conditioned environment is better than anything else. Storing in a hot shed will kill a finish in one summer in this part of the country. I don't care to use suspect finishes on something that I've invested a lot of time and effort in making just to save a few dollars. This isn't to imply that I don't have cans of old finish that should have been recycled a decade ago ... I'm just waiting for the right inspiration. 😀

 

[Hy Tran]

I've been experimenting with the minwax wipe-on poly (both satin & gloss; available at the large chain stores)

Basically, it's just urethane varnish ("poly") that has been thinned down with a solvent. The solids content (what actually polymerizes on the surface of your wood) is lower than, say, wood floor polyurethane. This allows the surface tension forces to conform the finish better over the surface of turned wood (as opposed to flat floors 😉); however, the finish thickness is thinner, so more coats are required.

I have found that you need many more coats of wipe-on than the can suggests. The can suggests 2 (maybe 3?) coats. I have found that 7 or 8 is not excessive.

For my environment (high altitude, relatively low humidity), I find that 4-12 hrs between coats works perfectly well, including an occasional scuffing with scotchbrite pads or 600-grit paper. I find that the next layer of poly fills in the scratches left by the scotchbrite pad or 600 paper, so I'm not convinced that I will retain the scuffing steps.

If my memory and my camera cooperate, I'll take some close-ups of some turnings that I wiped-on (about 6-8 weeks ago?) and post this evening.

Hy

 

[John Torchick]

Hy, thanks for the post.

 

[Justin Stephen]

For my environment (high altitude, relatively low humidity), I find that 4-12 hrs between coats works perfectly well, including an occasional scuffing with scotchbrite pads or 600-grit paper. I find that the next layer of poly fills in the scratches left by the scotchbrite pad or 600 paper, so I'm not convinced that I will retain the scuffing steps.

As I mentioned previously, I usually just use WOP as a topcoat over something else, usually DO or AO. In this manner, I only do two coats with a scuffing in between the two coats (I use Liberon 0000 steel wool). I can say that I have detected a surface improvement from scuffing vs. not scuffing based on the feel test on the second coat when cured so I will keep doing it. However, I cannot say that there would be any difference after buffing regardless. It takes a couple of minutes tops so its an easy time trade-off as far as I am concerned.

 

[Hy Tran]

Talking about finishing: One of the best books I have read is Bob Flexner's book. He goes into the chemistry of the various finishes (without using equations). WhiIe it is aimed at flat-workers, I find it quite good. I use the "wipe on; let sit a few minutes; wipe excess off" method. There are some youtube videos of hand-application of wipe-on-poly on an electric guitar body that I really liked.

The late Russ Fairfield wrote a number of columns about finishing for woodturners. I believe they are archived on woodcentral. I never had the opportunity to meet him, but I love what he wrote. You should read those articles too.

Best,

Hy

 

[Hy Tran]

So here are several shots of "wipe-on-poly'ed" bowls. This is the gloss (I think). I don't have a light box for shooting. This is indoor, using probably "warm white" LED kitchen canister (flood) lights on our kitchen counter. The color correction is decent but not perfect. You can see the torn grain on one of the shots, which re-iterates several folks' comments about finishes highlighting grain 😛

I would use wipe-on for decorative items or functional items that see very light usage. For functional items that see heavy use (such as pens), I would use CA finish (I gave a pen to friend who uses it daily--about 2 years now--almost no sign of wear on the CA). For functional items that see water (e.g. kitchen), depending on the item, either just butcher block oil (rolling pins) or some sort of drying oil followed with some wax (bowls, platters). This is more for the user's ability to clean/repair the finish.

I chose wipe-on for the natural edge, because I could "paint" the bark edge pretty heavily with the poly, and hopefully preserve it for several years. Hope that helps, John!

 

[John Torchick]

Hy, thanks for the reply and greatly admire the natural edge bowls.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Hy, thanks for the reply and greatly admire the natural edge bowls.

John I use oil as a finish, as I very much dislike the plastic shine and look of these lay on the surface varnish type finishes, also if/when damaged you’d have a job fixing it.

I rather see this, a flat or a bit more shiny finish, like on the Cedar or the Walnut.


Saving the oil from polymerizing in the container is cheap and easy, something I got from a friend of mine who was an refinery engineer out of Chile, though most of us know, but never think of using it in this context.

Namely, OIL FLOATS ON WATER, and no it does not mix with water, this I have used for probably close to 20 years.

Every time you use some oil fill the container full with water and close it, for the minute amount of air it does not affect the oil, and I have kept the oil good for better than 2 years that way, how long it will be stay good that way I don’t know, as I run out before it goes bad

So I had to have an easy to open and closing container that was not affected by either the oil or water, a glass bottle with a rubber ring on a porcelain closure was my first one (Maple syrup) used it for some years, but I had a problem with getting the last bit out without getting some water coming out as well, then knocked it to hard do the lathe ways and it got a crack, lucky me as the water was seeping out I quickly set it in a metal can, and was able to recover all the oil.

The new one also has a longer neck and is just about the right size for a ½ L can, and has also a small opening and neck that holds very little air when filled right up.
I bought a six pack and enjoyed emptying it 😀, so now I have a couple in reserve.

 

[Fred Belknap]

Leo just curious, what kind and brand of polymerizing oil do you use? I use Minwax Antique Oil on some things but I think it is a varnish/oil mix. I would like to find a good oil for burl bowls that dry kind of rough so they will have a nice sheen without being glossy.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Leo just curious, what kind and brand of polymerizing oil do you use? I use Minwax Antique Oil on some things but I think it is a varnish/oil mix. I would like to find a good oil for burl bowls that dry kind of rough so they will have a nice sheen without being glossy.

Fred there is as little info as possible in the MSDS sheets, but if you look closely you can deduct more that they are saying.
Like the volatiles are 72% by weight, (expensive paint thinners)
There’s Cobalt in it, not good for your health.
Other chronic health hazard.
No hazardous Polymerization as they call it 😵, with other words there is no polymerizing oil in it, and so no hazard from it 🙂

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Leo just curious, what kind and brand of polymerizing oil do you use? I use Minwax Antique Oil on some things but I think it is a varnish/oil mix. I would like to find a good oil for burl bowls that dry kind of rough so they will have a nice sheen without being glossy.

Oh ja almost forgot, this is what I use, and yes it is hazardous to leave your rags laying about, as it does polymerize.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=20050&cat=1,190,42942

 

[Fred Belknap]

Thanks Leo. I'll give that a trial. A friend who works at a commercial mill gave me a couple pickup loads of burls and I'm not to happy with WOP or Antique Oil on them. That is about all I can get locally.

 

[Dave Bunge]

I have used "Stop Loss Bags" with some success. Have a bag each of Minwax Wipe on Poly and Watco that are still good after 1 1/2 years. Anyone have similar experiences?

I am also using Stop Loss bags and have been happy with the results. I use them with Minwax Antique Oil.

Kept in the can, I see the finish degrading after a few months - it gets thicker and doesn't form as good of a film on the bowl surface. In the stop loss bags it seems as good as new after 6 months so far. I also find the Stop Loss bags to be much easier to dispense the finish from.

Raul, I don't know if they are using Eval for the oxygen barrier. But the manufacturer does state they use multiple layers, including an oxygen barrier. I've used polyethylene and polypropylene bottle and saw permeability issues with them...even when the bottle was full (no air present in the bottle) the finish degraded quickly, faster than in the can. But the Stop Loss bags are in a whole new ballpark, at least in my view.

OK, I'm sounding like a salesman, which I'm not, no connection to this product. Just a very happy user.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I am also using Stop Loss bags and have been happy with the results. I use them with Minwax Antique Oil.

Kept in the can, I see the finish degrading after a few months - it gets thicker and doesn't form as good of a film on the bowl surface......

I also wind up buying a new can of Minwax Antique Oil before it is half used because it starts getting thick. I noticed yesterday that the instructions on the can say DO NOT transfer the contents to another container. Maybe they want me to just buy more ... which is generally what I wind up doing. 😀 Being somewhat phrugal (my wife can vouch for this) , I sometime continue using it until even I can't tolerate it. I have found that being very attentive to keeping the cap clean goes a very long way in preserving the contents. Keeping the can in an air conditioned environment also makes a huge difference.

 

[john lucas]

I use just one or two coats of Miniwax wipe on. I'll try to take some photos later today to show the finish quality. It's not a high build finish the way I use it but has a very natural shine that I much prefer to the glossy plastic look I see on so many pieces. If you want the glass type of finish where there aren't any pores or lines showing through the finish then it takes many coats. Probably on the order of 12 to 20 coats depending on the wood. For that type of finish I use Lacquer that I spray on. I can get that kind of look with maybe 6 or 8 coats and they dry rapidly so I can do that easily in a day or two. To get that same look without a spray gun I use Birchwood-Casey True-oil. You wipe it on and let it dry. The next day you sand it down with 600 grit until it looks completely matte except for the pores or other grain defects. Do this every day until the entire thing looks matte with no pores showing. Then put on one more coat and your done. Leaves an exceptional looking piece. You can do the same thing with the minwax but it takes many many coats.

 

[Dean Center]

Fred, for the purpose you describe I use Lundmark Tung Oil. As most of us know and Leo points out, it's hard to know what's actually in such products, but I believe there is actually Tung Oil in the Lundmark. What else is in there who knows. Two coats applied like any other oil finish produces a nice satin finish, 3-4 will produce a gloss finish. It seems to have more solids than combo products like danish oil/antique oil/Minwax Not-Actually-Any-Tung Oil and will build up.

Lundmark focuses on the wood flooring market, so it's not something you see in turning catalogs. I buy it at our high priced local Ace Hardware for about $6 for a 10 oz bottle, which I don't use up before it deteriorates, about 6 months. It is also available at paint, lumber and other hardware stores, but not Big box stores, as far as I know. Once cured, it should be food safe and I've not heard of anyone with tung allergies.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I noticed yesterday that the instructions on the can say DO NOT transfer the contents to another container. Maybe they want me to just buy more ... which is generally what I wind up doing. 😀 Being somewhat phrugal (my wife can vouch for this) , I sometime continue using it until even I can't tolerate it. I have found that being very attentive to keeping the cap clean goes a very long way in preserving the contents. Keeping the can in an air conditioned environment also makes a huge difference.

Bill I think the can disclaimer is a CYOA for the rules on VOCs. I agree with the conditioned space and tight seal ideas

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Fred, for the purpose you describe I use Lundmark Tung Oil. As most of us know and Leo points out, it's hard to know what's actually in such products, but I believe there is actually Tung Oil in the Lundmark. What else is in there who knows. Two coats applied like any other oil finish produces a nice satin finish, 3-4 will produce a gloss finish. It seems to have more solids than combo products like danish oil/antique oil/Minwax Not-Actually-Any-Tung Oil and will build up.

Lundmark focuses on the wood flooring market, so it's not something you see in turning catalogs. I buy it at our high priced local Ace Hardware for about $6 for a 10 oz bottle, which I don't use up before it deteriorates, about 6 months. It is also available at paint, lumber and other hardware stores, but not Big box stores, as far as I know. Once cured, it should be food safe and I've not heard of anyone with tung allergies.

Dean the 2 kinds of Tung Oil Lee Valley carries, are the 100% Pure Tung Oil and the Polymerized Tung Oil, which is 50% Polymerized Tung Oil and 50% mineral spirits to make it thin enough to be workable.

The Pure Tung Oil needs a longer time to polymerize and does not give the same hardness and shine that you can get with the Polymerized Tung Oil.

It is for those two reasons that I use the Polymerized Tung Oil, the technical explanation is here,

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=20049&cat=1,190,42942

 

[john lucas]

I took a photo last night while shooting my mirror of a couple of pieces that show the type of finish I like. It's shiny but not glossy and looks very natural using the Wipe on Poly. I looked at my bowls I have around the house but all are finished with spray on lacquer and then buffed. They look very similar in terms of finish quality.

 

[Bob Bachynsky]

I'm one of those that just mixes their own 50% mineral spirits and 50% Minwax poly. Lot less expensive than buying premix.

 

[Greg Joseph]

General Finish makes a great wipe on varnish that is extremely durable. I have used it for ten years and it has held up on everything from sewing cabinets, to bowls. It is sold at WoodCraft. It will gel over time but I am able to slow down the process by storing it in a vacuum seal bag. The bag can be used several times when it is well oversized to start with.