Why such a difference in price? Bionic face shield.

[Odie]

The bionic face shield from Woodcraft is $56.99

The bionic face shield from Home Depot is $25.98

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Uvex-Bio...coated-Visor-S8500/203066944#customer_reviews

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2020118/19388/Bionic-Face-Shield.aspx#ProdInformationTab

Is it a matter of what the customer is willing to pay?

ooc

 

[Sergio Villa]

Same price at Amazon $25.98. Must be marketing...

 

[Tim L]

Just looking at the specs there is at least one difference that is pretty neat, the Woodcraft shield is scratch resistance. Don't know if it's worth THAT much difference in price though. If I were to buy one from one of those places I would certainly buy it from Home Depot, especially because it is at about half the price.
Tim.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Since HD lists a model # but Woodcraft doesn't perhaps you could call Woodcraft and find out if its the same model. There have been differences in seemingly identical products highlighted before, with the BORG actually selling a less robust product that just looks the same.

 

[Dwight R Rutherford]

Maybe with over 2,000 stores, they have a considerable advantage with a large buying power. Not unlike Walmart.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Interesting

The UVEX site lists the product as NOT adequate for "ballistic impact".

Doesn't help with the OP price question, but important to know that it gives no better protection and the standard: flip-up head-band products

 

[Donna Banfield]

The difference in cost may be the anti-fog coating. When these first came out (more than 5 years ago), Woodcraft carried 2 versions. The only difference was the anti-fog coating, and it was double the cost. I've worn both types and can say from personal experience, the anti-fog coating is worth it. The frame of the shield covers well below your chin, and actually comes down near my chest. That coverage doesn't expell moist breathe as easily, and fogs the inside of the shield quickly, especially in a cooler shop in cold weather. The anti-fog coated plastic never has that issue.

 

[Sergio Villa]

The replacement polycarbonate uncoated shield (no anti scratch no anti fog) is four time more expensive than the uncoated polycarbonate. The Amazon and home depot product is probably the non coated type.
Here is a nice link about impact, mass, dissipation of force, and all the rest.
http://youtu.be/UBZhP3mkFs4

 

[Odie]

The difference in cost may be the anti-fog coating. When these first came out (more than 5 years ago), Woodcraft carried 2 versions. The only difference was the anti-fog coating, and it was double the cost. I've worn both types and can say from personal experience, the anti-fog coating is worth it. The frame of the shield covers well below your chin, and actually comes down near my chest. That coverage doesn't expell moist breathe as easily, and fogs the inside of the shield quickly, especially in a cooler shop in cold weather. The anti-fog coated plastic never has that issue.

Donna.......

I don't know if you have been monitoring the other discussion about face shield protection applicable to woodturning, but this comment of yours (in bold above)caught my attention. I have a question for you.......If there was an impact from a chunk of wood to your bionic face shield, would it push the bottom into your chest before it hits your face? If the answer is yes, then that would be a significant consideration for safety concern.

thanks

ooc

 

[Bill Boehme]

There are numerous permutations and recently while doing a search, I didn't have much luck in sorting out how to determine what was what. Price didn't seem to be a reliable way of determining anything. There is a fancy ratchet type suspension headband that can be bought separately, but I don't know if it comes standard on any models. As mentioned, there is the anti-static, anti-fog visor for an absurd price -- difference in scratch resistance is a nit. There are tinted and really dark visors for welding -- they say -- I think that I would prefer a real welding helmet.

 

[AlanZ]

The Uvex USA web site has a datasheet that lists the various Bionic Shield models and part numbers, along with the features of each model.

http://www.uvex.us/uploadedFiles/ProductConfiguration/ProductLiterature/Uvex_Bionic_DS_3pg.pdf

I agree that the S8510 model with the hard coated, anti-fog visor (HC/AF), is well worth the cost.

 

[Bill Boehme]

The Uvex USA web site has a datasheet that lists the various Bionic Shield models and part numbers, along with the features of each model.

http://www.uvex.us/uploadedFiles/ProductConfiguration/ProductLiterature/Uvex_Bionic_DS_3pg.pdf

I agree that the S8510 model with the hard coated, anti-fog visor (HC/AF), is well worth the cost.

I did see that data sheet, but it did not really clarify things. In fact, it created more questions for me. They touted their ratcheted headband system, but then did not explicitly state that it was included with any of the models. It was shown as an accessory. If I got all of the features that I wanted, it appeared that I would need to buy a couple optional items, but I wasn't sure if the optional items would actually be useful.

 

[Odie]

Donna.......

I don't know if you have been monitoring the other discussion about face shield protection applicable to woodturning, but this comment of yours (in bold above)caught my attention. I have a question for you.......If there was an impact from a chunk of wood to your bionic face shield, would it push the bottom into your chest before it hits your face? If the answer is yes, then that would be a significant consideration for safety concern.

thanks

ooc

Looks like Donna has left the room, so can someone else who owns a bionic face shield address this question?

Also, I am frequently cleaning my face shield, so I'm wondering how the anti-fog, anti-scratch coating will hold up to frequent cleanings. Anyone know?

ooc

 

[Bill Boehme]

Looks like Donna has left the room, so can someone else who owns a bionic face shield address this question?

Also, I am frequently cleaning my face shield, so I'm wondering how the anti-fog, anti-scratch coating will hold up to frequent cleanings. Anyone know?

ooc

Dude! It's like 3 AM and Donna is probably a normal person who isn't up surfing in the middle of the night like a couple guys that I know. If you just run lukewarm to tepid water over the plexiglass, that usually takes care of most stuff. If necessary, you can spray it with eyeglasses cleaner that does not contain alcohol or leave oily or soapy residue. Finally, wipe clean with a microfiber cloth designed for cleaning eyeglasses -- not the kind used to wash your car. With reasonable care, the coating ought to hold up for a long time. It"s about the same thing as the coating on your eyeglasses which are probably also polycarbonate.

 

[john lucas]

I like my bionic face shield. The shape alone gives it more impact resistance than other shields its rounded shape would help deflect the blow. The lower part helps keep chips out of your shirt and I think would also help absorb some of the impact. But the main point is its comfortable enough to wear. I purchased a Trend shield a d can't stand to wear it. I doubt you'll ever see me in a catchers mask either so at least I will wear the bionic shield

 

[Odie]

Dude! It's like 3 AM and Donna is probably a normal person who isn't up surfing in the middle of the night like a couple guys that I know. If you just run lukewarm to tepid water over the plexiglass, that usually takes care of most stuff. If necessary, you can spray it with eyeglasses cleaner that does not contain alcohol or leave oily or soapy residue. Finally, wipe clean with a microfiber cloth designed for cleaning eyeglasses -- not the kind used to wash your car. With reasonable care, the coating ought to hold up for a long time. It"s about the same thing as the coating on your eyeglasses which are probably also polycarbonate.

So what are you doing at 3am, Bill?

Hey, I was only up for a few minutes because I couldn't sleep!......I still work full time and will be leaving in about a half hour from now! I do retire in about 8 months......then it'll be nothing but over-time in the shop. As it is, it's close to full time in the shop now! (I'd say it's 25-30 hours per week currently.) The past five years has been crazy......just can't help spending more and more time doing what I love!

Later......

ooc

 

[Donna Banfield]

Odie, I appreciate your concern. I have 2 of those Bionic Faceshields, and they are used when I am teaching a student in my studio. We both wear one -even when I'm not turning, but simply standing there observing the student. So the use is when I am teaching, or demonstrating. Unlike Alan Z., I don't have a microphone set up to be able to talk to a student or observer when demonstrating or teaching.

What I wear when I am turning is the Airstream helmet with the hepa filter and respirator. And I also wear safety glasses.

 

[AlanZ]

Bill,

Both of the faceshield models have the ratcheting headband. The listings are likely for replacement parts (same thing with the visor colors and type)

Although I've never used it, it's likely that you remove the headband when using the shield with a user supplied helmet and the Uvex helmet mount.

 

[Bill Boehme]

So what are you doing at 3am, Bill? .....

I've been assigned to follow you.

Both of the faceshield models have the ratcheting headband....

Thanks, Alan. I am considering it when I don't need to use my Airstream.

 

[Mark Mandell]

I've been assigned to follow you.

But NOT by Me!

 

[Odie]

I've been assigned to follow you.

But NOT by Me!

You two are the Laurel and Hardy of the AAW forums! Heh,heh,heh........

.....but, your input makes life here interesting!

ooc

 

[Odie]

For those who have and use a bionic face shield: What if a chunk of wood flew into the front........would it push the shield into your face, or would the bottom reinforcement hitting your chest stop the shield short of your face? (John.....not sure your response was acknowledging that it did.....?)

ooc

 

[Mark Mandell]

If there was an impact from a chunk of wood to your bionic face shield, would it push the bottom into your chest before it hits your face? If the answer is yes, then that would be a significant consideration for safety concern.

From what Bill has posted it would seem that question would have a lot to do with the impact point and the trajectory angle of the chunk. If it were rising and hit above the center-line, the force would be channeled upwards to eyes and forehead. If the chunk had a downward flight path it would, indeed, push the frame into the clavicle area along with flexing/collapsing into the lower part of the face. Some very complicated force vectors underlying your question, Odie.

I've been thinking about buying a 3M unit, but I'm not seeing where $600-800 buys me more impact protection that a $60 Bionic. Since most of my turning is done in an open garage with some hefty fans going (or a 1,600 CFM D-C running) and using domestic hardwoods rather than exotics, sanding etm. dust is not a concern for me.

 

[Mark Mandell]

You two are the Laurel and Hardy of the AAW forums! Heh,heh,heh........

.....but, your input makes life here interesting!

ooc

Didja here that, Olie? We's famous!

 

[Odie]

From what Bill has posted it would seem that question would have a lot to do with the impact point and the trajectory angle of the chunk. If it were rising and hit above the center-line, the force would be channeled upwards to eyes and forehead. If the chunk had a downward flight path it would, indeed, push the frame into the clavicle area along with flexing/collapsing into the lower part of the face. Some very complicated force vectors underlying your question, Odie.

I've been thinking about buying a 3M unit, but I'm not seeing where $600-800 buys me more impact protection that a $60 Bionic. Since most of my turning is done in an open garage with some hefty fans going (or a 1,600 CFM D-C running) and using domestic hardwoods rather than exotics, sanding etm. dust is not a concern for me.

Do either you or Bill own and use a bionic face shield, Mark.....?

I guess a very simple test would be to press against the bionic face shield.....and see where it hits. I'm guessing it will either be your chest, or your face.

I have the Airstream, but bought it prior to when 3M had the rights to it.....back then, it was Racal. You wouldn't necessarily buy one for face protection......but more for lung protection.

I am considering buying a bionic face shield, but another question I need to know: Will a Resp-o-rator be compatible to it's use.....?

ooc

 

[Mark Mandell]

Do either you or Bill own and use a bionic face shield, Mark.....?

I don't, but have seen them in use. Should be no issue with the filter and mouthpiece (which I do have). However, since we're talking about impact protection, I think I'd have second thoughts about more stuff behind the face plate to likely get jammed into my mouth if I got hit. The "scuba-doobie" is good if you're working with exotics and toxic woods, but people forget that the dust gets deposited all over them as well as in the shop atmosphere. To be effective you'd really need to "wear" it before you enter the shop and never take it out until you'd shed your shop clothes and decontaminated yourself. It's another reason I don't work with exotics; plenty of beautiful domestic woods to work with that I don't have to concern myself with anaphalactic shock.

PS: Of course if we were in California, Jerry Brown would have all us turners in Moonsuits with outside supplied air. After all, we know that virtually everything causes cancer in California, right?

 

[Fred Belknap]

I guess a very simple test would be to press against the bionic face shield.....and see where it hits. I'm guessing it will either be your chest, or your face.

Odie I just went out to the shop and checked my Bionic Faceshield and it does hit the top of my sternum before it hits my face. I recently replaced the shield part of mine because the old one was pretty much scratched and had bunch of glue spots. My new shield took a hit right in the middle from a small knot or maybe bark and I noticed a few day later that it had a crack like when a pebble strikes a vehicle windshield. I said to myself when that hit the shield, "that would have hurt if it had hit my face". The anti-fog stuff doesn't work to good in this humid weather we have been having. I clean mine with Windex.
Interesting thread.

 

[Bill Boehme]

You two are the Laurel and Hardy of the AAW forums! Heh,heh,heh........

.....but, your input makes life here interesting!

ooc

But ... but ... but ... I thought that we were the Three Stooges ... hey, we're a team, aren't we? Well, aren't we?

Do either you or Bill own and use a bionic face shield, Mark.....?

I guess a very simple test would be to press against the bionic face shield.....and see where it hits. I'm guessing it will either be your chest, or your face.

I have the Airstream, but bought it prior to when 3M had the rights to it.....back then, it was Racal. You wouldn't necessarily buy one for face protection......but more for lung protection.

I am considering buying a bionic face shield, but another question I need to know: Will a Resp-o-rator be compatible to it's use.....?

ooc

I have been thinking about a Bionic faceshield, if I can conclude that it is any better than what I already have in my collection of faceshields. My current ones would all mash my nose flat as the first thing. The bottom edge hits right in the middle of my throat. The thing that I have observed on all of mine is that the headband doesn't have a firm grasp of my head -- not any more firm that something like a baseball cap which takes hardly any effort to cause it to come off. This tells me that with an impact of enough magnitude to cause injury that the headband would just pop loose as the shield impacted my face. The bionic shield seems to have a slight advantage if the bottom extends far enough to get some leverage from the sternum. The thing that I like about the Airstream is that the down position of the visor is a solid stop. That combined with the headband and cradle assembly having a really snug fit on the head would offer some degree of protection better than the average faceshield.

Odie, if you have a friend who could give you a few b**** slaps in the faceshield to see if the headband will stay put, I think that it would provide a valuable contribution to our research. We are the Three Stooges after all, aren't we? Well, aren't we? I can't hear you.

On a serious note, we need to also acknowledge that no manufacturer would want to have anything whatsoever to do with what we are discussing here for very obvious reasons. Their faceshields have been certified to meet specific requirements while the type of protection that we are discussing goes well beyond that. The AAW is probably also rethinking their implied endorsement of faceshields.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Odie, if you have a friend who could give you a few b**** slaps in the faceshield to see if the headband will stay put, I think that it would provide a valuable contribution to our research.

Odie, Don't listen to him! He's trying to get you to offer your head as a target again!

The AAW is probably also rethinking their implied endorsement of faceshields.

I would consider putting a bet on that.

 

[Roger Chandler]

My Bionic face shield saved my bacon!

Odie...........here is a link to a save that happened to me while wearing my Uvex Bionic face shield.......I was turning at 1250 rpm at the time.........it was a pretty hard whack!!!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthr...-trip-to-the-emergency-room-today!&highlight=

 

[hockenbery]

Wearing a face shield should be a basic requirement.

Keep two things in mind
1. A face shield will prevent a percentage of serious injuries. The actual percentage will vary with the type and condition of the face shield
If every turner wears a face shield there will be fewer injuries requiring a hospital visit.

2. You can still get serious and lethal injuries wearing a face shield.


Few safety devices are 100% effective. Their use gives us an edge.
For example, Seat belts save about 8 thousand lives a year and yet thousands die wearing seat belts.
Seat belts reduce serious injury and death by about 50%

 

[Mark Mandell]

Wearing a face shield should be a basic requirement.

Keep two things in mind
1. A face shield will prevent a percentage of serious injuries. The actual percentage will vary with the type and condition of the face shield
If every turner wears a face shield there will be fewer injuries requiring a hospital visit.

2. You can still get serious and lethal injuries wearing a face shield.

Few safety devices are 100% effective. Their use gives us an edge.
For example, Seat belts save about 8 thousand lives a year and yet thousands die wearing seat belts.
Seat belts reduce serious injury and death by about 50%

That's an important caveat that must be made clear to everyone. Turning is a dangerous game, and the bit of plastic hanging off our foreheads, while better than nothing, will not protect us from serious injury in every situation. People should not surrender their safety to a few ounces of plastic. Promote them? Sure, but not without clear information about the seriously limited protection they actually give.

 

[Odie]

Odie I just went out to the shop and checked my Bionic Faceshield and it does hit the top of my sternum before it hits my face. I recently replaced the shield part of mine because the old one was pretty much scratched and had bunch of glue spots. My new shield took a hit right in the middle from a small knot or maybe bark and I noticed a few day later that it had a crack like when a pebble strikes a vehicle windshield. I said to myself when that hit the shield, "that would have hurt if it had hit my face". The anti-fog stuff doesn't work to good in this humid weather we have been having. I clean mine with Windex.
Interesting thread.

Thank you, Fred.......

This is exactly the answer I was fishing for from someone who actually owns one of these bionic face shields. If the bottom of the visor hits your chest before it hits your face, I'd think that would be a significant safety advantage. Mark makes a good point about the Resp-o-rator, and that the shield may hit there, if I'm wearing it......could be hard on my teeth.

Someone else in this thread mentioned that the anti-fog coating was good to have.....that may be so. I've had my own face shield fog up on cold mornings here in Montana. The problem goes away once the shop heats up to a comfortable temperature. I may just get the regular shield for now, and might upgrade if I feel I need the anti-fog. I'm also using Windex on my face shield, been doing it for years with no problems there. When the scratches get bad enough, I use the Novus plastic scratch remover.

I still have the replacement riot shield coming....will try to mount to my current face shield. Don't know if it'll work out, but I had the idea that it could be mounted in conjunction with the supplied shield.......?

Again, thanks.

ooc

 

[JeffSmith]

I just saw this thread - sorry for getting in late, but there's a couple of points...I've been using a Uvex for about four years now - it's great for me. It's light and visibility is great. I use it mostly while turning using the Trend Airshield only when sanding or doing dusty stuff. I've also got a bubble shield that seems really strong for impact, but is not all that comfortable to wear and fogs almost as soon as I put it on.

The UVEX coating seems to last a long time. I turn a lot of green wood - maple and madrone mostly and the juices are particularly sticky. I clean with warm water and wipe dry. Seems to have no effect on the coating. The Anti-fog coating on the inside doesn't get anywhere near the cleaning the outside does.

There is an adjustment on the headband - near the temple area that allows you to move the shield farther away from your face (slightly). Good for glasses wearers and possibly an additional level of room before anything hits your face(?).

The newer shield is rated to the higher impact level. This is not mentioned in the literature, but you can dig it out with some research. There's a difference between the standard Z-87 standard and Z-87+. The Z-87+ rated shields are marked on the top right with a Z87+ - it's really small, but it's there. I replaced my shield with the new one about 2 years ago...

All in all, there's probably much stronger shields available, but I find myself grabbing the Uvex in preference to anything else. Since I make a point of staying out of the line of fire whenever possible, and I stop to check the piece if anything starts to sing or act wonky,comfort trumps anything else for me.

 

[Odie]

Odie...........here is a link to a save that happened to me while wearing my Uvex Bionic face shield.......I was turning at 1250 rpm at the time.........it was a pretty hard whack!!!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthr...-trip-to-the-emergency-room-today!&highlight=

Thank you Roger......

I'm thinking that reinforcement under the shield is a great help to holding up under a hit like that.....beginning to think I'm going to get one of these bionic shields........

Have a good day......er, night!

ooc

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Do either you or Bill own and use a bionic face shield, Mark.....?

I guess a very simple test would be to press against the bionic face shield.....and see where it hits. I'm guessing it will either be your chest, or your face.

I have the Airstream, but bought it prior to when 3M had the rights to it.....back then, it was Racal. You wouldn't necessarily buy one for face protection......but more for lung protection.

I am considering buying a bionic face shield, but another question I need to know: Will a Resp-o-rator be compatible to it's use.....?

ooc

Don't know about your resp-o-rator, But there is one at Lee Valley that will fit under Bionic. I have it and it is comfortable except I tend to look almost straight down w/o bending my neck due to gradient lens in glasses so I don't use it at the lathe.
Anyway you can see it at this link
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=62066&cat=1,42207,43647

 

[Bill Weaver]

I bought mine maybe 1-1/2 ago and it is more like a welding helment, than any other face shield I have ever owned. I think I paid a little over 42$'s for it from Craft supplies.
Ode, I do believe it would hit your chest before your face.

 

[stu senator]

Using Uvix

Just used my Uvex, BionicB-D87+, and did not need it but it was there.

I was wearing a t shirt with a pocket and had a pocket full of chips but none down my neck.

In testing I did a upslap to the shield and in hitting the top half of the shield the headband took the load across my forehead. If the slap was really in the up direction it lifted it off my head.

If I hit the lower half it hit my sternum if my chin was down, or my chin if my head was up.

As I was hitting myself I did not hit that hard, only enough to get a feel for what would happen.

A few years ago it saved me from a nasty cut or bruise as a bowl I was reworking (stupid idea) came apart.

I did not have any one throw blocks of wood at my head, I leave that to others who want to get noticed on U Tube.

Stu

 

[Odie]

Well, well, well......what a pleasant surprise!

The riot shield came today, and I figured I'd have to do some modifications to mount it to my regular face shield headband and swivel hardware. This is a U.S. military surplus riot face shield that is made to attach to a Kevlar military helmet. There were no modifications necessary. It simply attaches with several spring clips, which did require a screwdriver to spread them wide enough to fit the face shield.....but, is nice and secure. There is a rubber piece that makes a seal between the helmet and face shield....works equally as well for the same purpose on the face shield swivel mechanism. I have no idea what those two rubber circular pieces are for..... Wish all the modifications I attempt were this easy to do!

The height is almost the same as the original face shield....about 1/2" less. The corners on the sides are cut with a bit more arc, but don't anticipate any drawbacks to that. It's noticeably heavier because the thickness of the plastic is much thicker, and the mounting hardware. I imagine this will absorb quite a strong hit without any trouble.

Both the Resp-o-rator, and my modified fielder's face guard fit under the riot face shield very nicely.

I think the bionic face shield would be a pretty good choice, and this riot face shield appears to be equally effective for personal safety. I had been considering buying the bionic, if this modified riot shield didn't work out.....but, it is much better and easier to install than I anticipated.

Cost for the US military surplus riot face shield was a little less than $15, which included the shipping.

ooc

 

[Bill Boehme]

..... I have no idea what those two rubber circular pieces are for.....

It appears that they act as shock absorbers.