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A post elsewhere prompted some thought about the history of cylindrical gouges. I'm not able to find any reason other than that it became possible and cheaper to grind gouges from cylindrical stock, therefore they appeared. I've been around long enough to remember them touted as something new, and it seems that there was a lag of a few years before I began seeing articles about the Irish grinding their gouges' ears back. Is this a correct recollection of events?
That would make the swept-back grinds familiar today an accomodation, not a creation. Old folks remember the days of forged gouges where the metal was the same thickness throughout, the grind a simple angle set on the grinder's built-in rest. Fingernailing was accomplished by pivoting the edge without rolling, creating a secondary relief contour for those gouges used in interior work.
Those were the beginnings of the long grinds of today, but with the difference that convex work was almost always done without the secondary relief of the ground corners. The convex nature of the work itself provided the secondary clearance. Longer grinds and narrower flutes forced an entirely different set of tool angles in order to regain the beauty of allowing the wood to slide down the edge and be cut. I've placed a couple of images on http://www.photosite.com/mmouse8/MouseDroppings/ showing the way forged gouges were used, made more interesting by the text :"...it is quite impossible to feel the tool working if you hold it tightly. When I'm swanking I just hold the end of the tool handle between two fingers and take off heavy cuts, even slowing up the motor. The rope-like shavings run down the hollow of the gouge which shows that you are cutting wood as it prefers to be cut. " This from the old Frank Pain classic The Practical Wood Turner , as are the illustrations.
When you look at the illustrations, you instantly understand why toolrests were angled as they were or still are - they defined the skew angle which produced the shearing cut - the cleanest kind. With the narrow flute of the cylindrical gouge, the only way to regain this sliding motion was to lengthen the side grind, use the former tool rest as a tool lean , and put some pressure on the handle of the tool (or longer handles) to maintain the cut. Compensation, not innovation.
Then there are cylindrical toolrests. Can't figure out why folks would want one. Either you rest at 90 degrees, a radius further away than an angled rest, or you start losing tool support immediately you drop the handle.
Fortunately there are still forged and Continental patterns out there which will work at or near 90 degrees.
That would make the swept-back grinds familiar today an accomodation, not a creation. Old folks remember the days of forged gouges where the metal was the same thickness throughout, the grind a simple angle set on the grinder's built-in rest. Fingernailing was accomplished by pivoting the edge without rolling, creating a secondary relief contour for those gouges used in interior work.
Those were the beginnings of the long grinds of today, but with the difference that convex work was almost always done without the secondary relief of the ground corners. The convex nature of the work itself provided the secondary clearance. Longer grinds and narrower flutes forced an entirely different set of tool angles in order to regain the beauty of allowing the wood to slide down the edge and be cut. I've placed a couple of images on http://www.photosite.com/mmouse8/MouseDroppings/ showing the way forged gouges were used, made more interesting by the text :"...it is quite impossible to feel the tool working if you hold it tightly. When I'm swanking I just hold the end of the tool handle between two fingers and take off heavy cuts, even slowing up the motor. The rope-like shavings run down the hollow of the gouge which shows that you are cutting wood as it prefers to be cut. " This from the old Frank Pain classic The Practical Wood Turner , as are the illustrations.
When you look at the illustrations, you instantly understand why toolrests were angled as they were or still are - they defined the skew angle which produced the shearing cut - the cleanest kind. With the narrow flute of the cylindrical gouge, the only way to regain this sliding motion was to lengthen the side grind, use the former tool rest as a tool lean , and put some pressure on the handle of the tool (or longer handles) to maintain the cut. Compensation, not innovation.
Then there are cylindrical toolrests. Can't figure out why folks would want one. Either you rest at 90 degrees, a radius further away than an angled rest, or you start losing tool support immediately you drop the handle.
Fortunately there are still forged and Continental patterns out there which will work at or near 90 degrees.
