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Which Thompson gouge.

Although I have a 5/8, I rarely use it, even for larger bowls. I've found that a 1/2 will serve well for almost any use and get the job done quickly. A friend who is a production turner (bowls) uses only a 1/2 gouge for all of his work, with remarkable speed. IHe sees no need for 5/8. Given a choice of only one bowl gouge -- I would absolutely take a 1/2.
 
I can't say that I ever used a 3/4 gouge, just too much metal to put into the wood at one time, and you have to work harder. I use scrapers for all of my bowl roughing and only do clean up with the gouges. Most of the time 5/8.

robo hippy
 
Although the question was specifically about Thompson bowl gouges, it is worth pointing out that there is a difference in stated size between US and UK made bowl gouges.
  • ⅜ UK approximately equals ½ US
  • ½ UK approximately equals ⅝ US
  • ⅝ UK approximately equals ¾ US
The US size is based on bar diameter although you'll find that Thompson gouges are slightly oversized if you check them with a micrometer. The UK bar stock is actually metric, but the exact relationship of 25.4 mm/inch doesn't explain the discrepancy. I remember articles years ago in both American Woodturner and in Woodturning magazine explaining how the British measure bowl gouge size. There was more than one theory on this matter and none held water under scrutiny. Just to shed a little darkness on this question, the British toolmakers decided to use the actual bar size when stating the size of their spindle gouges.
 
Glenn Lefley said:
Where would I pick up a 5/8 10v with the Ellsworth grind already on?
Click to expand...

You'll need do that yourself. Thompson only does his grind. The flute shape on the Thompson bowl gouge is not the same as the "official" Ellsworth gouge made under license by Crown so if you're splitting hairs it won't be exactly the same ... not that it matters a whit.
 
Glenn Lefley said:
So everyone in this thread is talking about a us version of the 5/8. Which would be a half inch in England? Don’t want to buy the wrong one.
Click to expand...

There's not really a wrong one. They're all excellent tools. Buy whatever you want and grind it the way you want.
 
Bill Boehme said:
You'll need do that yourself. Thompson only does his grind. The flute shape on the Thompson bowl gouge is not the same as the "official" Ellsworth gouge made under license by Crown so if you're splitting hairs it won't be exactly the same ... not that it matters a whit.
Click to expand...

I think there is big difference for some cuts.
The Thompson V is similar flute to the glazer flute popular with many turners.
This gouge is too pointy to take the Ellsworth grind well.
The jamieson(made by Thompson) has a flute is similar to the Henry Taylor flute and the Ellsworth signature.
This gouge has a rounded point and the leading edge of the wing is more useful.

I have a Thompson v. I just use it for roughing. A nice tool it just doesn’t do some cuts well because it lacks a wide flute.
 
Lamar Wright said:
So Al, the jamieson gouge probably cuts smoother like for finish cuts?
Click to expand...
Only on the cuts where the Ellsworth grind out performs the O’Neil style grind.

The v gouge will be as good or better with the pull cut, shear scrape, & scrape

The jaimison with the Ellsworth grind with the curved wing edge will be better on the shear cut, Push cut, and back cut.

Either probably about equal on the non bevel riding roughing cuts. Maybe slight edge to the Ellsworth.
 
hockenbery said:
Only on the cuts where the Ellsworth grind out performs the O’Neil style grind.

The v gouge will be as good or better with the pull cut, shear scrape, & scrape

The jaimison with the Ellsworth grind with the curved wing edge will be better on the shear cut, Push cut, and back cut.

Either probably about equal on the non bevel riding roughing cuts. Maybe slight edge to the Ellsworth.
Click to expand...
Thanks Al.
 
hockenbery said:
Only on the cuts where the Ellsworth grind out performs the O’Neil style grind.

The v gouge will be as good or better with the pull cut, shear scrape, & scrape

The jaimison with the Ellsworth grind with the curved wing edge will be better on the shear cut, Push cut, and back cut.

Either probably about equal on the non bevel riding roughing cuts. Maybe slight edge to the Ellsworth.
Click to expand...
Wow, it just gets more confusing. Haha. So the Ellsworth is not on a v gouge but a specially made gouge which is between a u and a v shape?
 
Glenn Lefley said:
Wow, it just gets more confusing. Haha. So the Ellsworth is not on a v gouge but a specially made gouge which is between a u and a v shape?
Click to expand...

The Ellsworth grind works best on a parabolic flute or superflute by Henry Taylor
Sort of like a v at the top and U at the bottom.

Super flute - Henry Taylor -
C711AE16-FC03-446D-94CB-3BC3DC8E123E.gif The super-flute gouge is made from 5/8" HSS round bar machined with an elliptical cross-section flute instead of a consistent round radius.

Jamison description
This has a better flute configuration—Not a “V”, not a “U” shape—It is 12 inches long with a 7 inch long flute —It has a wider, parabolic flute shape than any other gouge made today—The flute change translates into easier, safer, better control.

This is a nice 2 page history of the superflute on page 2 talks briefly about the Ellsworth grind.
http://www.peterchild.co.uk/info1/sflute.htm
 
I still have an old Glaser V gouge, black handle. All it does is gather dust. It was way too steep of a V. Doug's is considerably more open, and Lyles is more open yet. They will both take some thing of a swept back grind, but I haven't used a swept back gouge in years. I could not get a good sweep on Doug's U gouge.

robo hippy
 
hockenbery said:
The Ellsworth grind works best on a parabolic flute or superflute by Henry Taylor
Sort of like a v at the top and U at the bottom.

Super flute - Henry Taylor -
View attachment 25802 The super-flute gouge is made from 5/8" HSS round bar machined with an elliptical cross-section flute instead of a consistent round radius.

Jamison description
This has a better flute configuration—Not a “V”, not a “U” shape—It is 12 inches long with a 7 inch long flute —It has a wider, parabolic flute shape than any other gouge made today—The flute change translates into easier, safer, better control.

This is a nice 2 page history of the superflute on page 2 talks briefly about the Ellsworth grind.
http://www.peterchild.co.uk/info1/sflute.htm
Click to expand...
That was a good read. Thanks.
 
My go to tool is the Thompson 5/8 V regular or the deep V. Makes no difference to me as I use either without knowing which I'm using. It does no clog at the tip as the Glaser did. I use them for roughing and finishing and if I had only one tool available it would be the Thompson 5/8 V. Glad that is not the case though as I have most.
 
I use the Thompson V for just about everything. A 5/8" will do huge bowls. I had a 3/4" Sorby that was given to me. I gave it away. I did not like using it. It's too huge and was hard to control.
 
robo hippy said:
I still have an old Glaser V gouge, black handle. All it does is gather dust. It was way too steep of a V. Doug's is considerably more open, and Lyles is more open yet. They will both take some thing of a swept back grind, but I haven't used a swept back gouge in years. I could not get a good sweep on Doug's U gouge.

robo hippy
Click to expand...
please hang on to that nasty old Glaser and we'll talk about re-homing it the next time I get out there to see you :)
bill
 
Glenn Lefley said:
Are yours the v gouge? And could you post a pick of grind you have on yours of the one you use most often. Please.
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I have 2 with the V, I have the U, and I have the deep V so I can get an Ellsworth grind, I have David Ellsworth personal gouge, he did the grind himself, never touched it, I keep it on the wall so I can compare my grind with God's grind, I mean, David's grind. I will take a picture if I remember tomorrow, things are hectic here, I spent all day in the shop finishing some projects, getting things ready for my trip Portland, leaving wednesday morning... Aloha
 
I use a 45/45 platform sharpened V, most of the time on the outside, and on the wall on the inside, but switch to BOB tools for the transition and bottoms.

Bob, I was hoping to make it out to NC next year for the Symposium, but the July date conflicts with a show I have been doing since 1983, most fun and most profitable by a long shot... I should be moved into new house and shop by end of summer...

robo hippy
 
Glenn Lefley said:
Where would I pick up a 5/8 10v with the Ellsworth grind already on?
Click to expand...
I will be spending time with Doug Thompson in Portland. I can text you and you can put an order. But, you have to do your own grind... Do you have the Ellsworth jig and the wolverine set up with the right dimensions?
 
I think the jamieson gouge and the the Thompson gouges come with a wing profile and maybe even sharp enough to be used. The profile saves a lot of time on the first sharpening over a gouge delivered with a squared off end. You will still want to refine the profile to your liking and sharpen it.
 
Glenn Lefley said:
I have a Wolverine setup. With a 180 cbn wheel. That’s it.
Click to expand...

Then you still need either a Varigrind jig or an Ellsworth jig. The Varigrind can be set to a very close match to the Ellsworth jig. Doug Thompson has information on his site for setting the Varigrind to the grind that he puts on his gouges.
 
Bill Boehme said:
Then you still need either a Varigrind jig or an Ellsworth jig. The Varigrind can be set to a very close match to the Ellsworth jig. Doug Thompson has information on his site for setting the Varigrind to the grind that he puts on his gouges.
Click to expand...
Sorry I have the whole Wolverine set up including all the Oneway jigs. Vari grind 1 and 2 , skew attachment etc.

But no Ellsworth jig.
 
Glenn Lefley said:
Sorry I have the whole Wolverine set up including all the Oneway jigs. Vari grind 1 and 2 , skew attachment etc.

But no Ellsworth jig.
Click to expand...

You might be interested in THIS THREAD from a couple years ago. In post #4, I show a picture of the Ellsworth Jig, The original Varigrind jig, and the Hannes jig. The Varigrind is shown with the arm in the position that exactly matches the Ellsworth jig. If you set the Varigrind for a 2" protrusion and then Adjust the Wolverine arm until you have a 60° nose angle on the gouge, you will be half way towards creating the profile of an Ellsworth grind (see the last paragraph for the caveat).

However, as Al correctly pointed out, the shape of the cutting edge is affected by the flute shape. The regular Thompson bowl gouge has a narrow parabolic curve while the "Signature" Ellsworth gouges have a rather broad parabolic curve. It's very common to see the terms parabolic, U, and V to describe flute shapes, but I think it creates more confusion than actually helping. Next, you would have to ask, "what font"? I don't feel like using U and V are very satisfying ways to describe a flute shape unless a lot more verbiage is thrown in to hopefully clarify things. Parabolic is more accurate, but still vague since a parabola can range from narrow to broad. You could safely say that most bowl gouges have parabolic flutes ... or possibly elliptical flutes for that matter since it's practically impossible to discern the difference on a bowl gouge without fancy measuring equipment. I'll see if I can find the thread where this subject was hashed over ad infinitum ... and perhaps, ad nauseam.

Don't worry, you're not going to ruin a bowl gouge by using the "wrong" jig for a particular flute shape. It won't be exactly the same as somebody's signature grind, but will still be perfectly usable.

If it hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread, using a jig doesn't mean that you will automatically get the right shape on a tool. The jig will present the tool to the grindstone at the correct angle, but it is completely up to the user to get the shape right.
 
To get the Ellsworth jig to work correctly you need to follow the 2-4-7 rule for the pivot point.

2 protrusion of the gouge from the jig
4 pivot point below the center of the wheel
7 pivot point distance in front of the wheel

Easy to make something to bolt onto a 3/4” square steel tube.
Easy to make a block to fit into the Wolverine.
 
One thing I do not believe anyone mentioned is that to get that swept back Ellsworth grind the tops of the flutes will have to be shaped by holding them onto the wheel and grind both together till shape is arrived at and then sharpen as described. Funny it took me a while to realize this is the easiest way to change the shape of the flutes as it seems counter intuitive but it works.
 
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