what is the big gripe with skews?

[Scott Austin]

Hello everyone.

I have been turning for just under a year and still a beginner, but getting awful close to intermediate. I have mostly turned bowls so I never bothered to buy a skew. I happened to win one last week in a raffle at a club meeting. I had never used one before, and I had read and heard about a lot of people's hatred of the skew. So I read about the tecnique in my books, and watched a couple of you tube videos (by the way, thank all you wonderful people who take the time to put turning.instruction on YouTube. It is the most awesome resource in woodturning education.). Anyhow, I chucked up a piece of scrap spindle stock I had laying about and turned it from rough and square to an almost finish ready surface in about 10 minutes. I also turned some beads and just mainly played for a while. At first I had a couple of catches, but soon figured out why and refined my technique. I am not getting on here to toot my own horn. I am just curious what the big deal is and why all of these guys who have been turning for years hate the skew. I found it to be a very useful, and really easy spindle turning tool. I am just trying to understand.

Thanks
Scott

 

[John Torchick]

Timely thread here. We had a fellow do a demo at our club meeting this past Tuesday. He used a skew to rough a square piece and then to turn it down to dimension. He showed how to use a skew to make beads on the turning and as a parting tool. I learned more in that 45 minutes than watching videos or reading books.

 

[Syd Sellers]

Skew

Hello everyone.

I have been turning for just under a year and still a beginner, but getting awful close to intermediate. I have mostly turned bowls so I never bothered to buy a skew. I happened to win one last week in a raffle at a club meeting. I had never used one before, and I had read and heard about a lot of people's hatred of the skew. So I read about the tecnique in my books, and watched a couple of you tube videos (by the way, thank all you wonderful people who take the time to put turning.instruction on YouTube. It is the most awesome resource in woodturning education.). Anyhow, I chucked up a piece of scrap spindle stock I had laying about and turned it from rough and square to an almost finish ready surface in about 10 minutes. I also turned some beads and just mainly played for a while. At first I had a couple of catches, but soon figured out why and refined my technique. I am not getting on here to toot my own horn. I am just curious what the big deal is and why all of these guys who have been turning for years hate the skew. I found it to be a very useful, and really easy spindle turning tool. I am just trying to understand.

Thanks
Scott

Scott, your time will come.... Give it time. As you forget your technique, you will pick up the skew and distort the item you are working on is a flash.
Keep practicing and use it everyday and you will be fine.
Syd.

 

[egsiegel]

I don't do much spindle work...but when I do, I agree with you, I pick up a skew. I learned with a skew and don't have much trouble with it.

I do have a detail gouge and that is pretty close as far a results, but I find sharpening the skew easier.

 

[john lucas]

I love the skew. Hated it at first but went to a turning demo at John Jordan's. He had George Hatfield there to demo turning table legs and using the skew and spindle gouge. I came away loving the skew and still use it a lot.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Can't ask for more in a planing tool. I don't use the skewed version, I use the 90 degree version most of the time. I think what gets people in trouble is the same thing that gets them in trouble elsewhere - sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong. They fixate on the portion doing the cutting, and don't realize that something's hanging out ahead of the point of contact. If that contacts an uphill part, it's spiral and curse time. If there's nothing sticking out, there's nothing to catch.

Halfway measures like a convex edge are more forgiving than a regular skew for planing and beading, but, save for a few things, like cutting V grooves, where nobody makes a bruzz anymore, you don't need the point sticking out, so why have one.

Slowly enough to see what's happening. http://s35.beta.photobucket.com/user/GoodOnesGone/media/CylinderRough.mp4.html The little curly shavings taken when the piece is circular or nearly so leave a shiny surface behind.

 

[john lucas]

Most people get catches with the skew because they come off the bevel. I use the long point down a lot in my turning and would not do without it. You can undercut the base of goblets, clean up square shoulders, cut to the bottom of beads, etc. It's a very useful area of the skew.
Here is my video showing one way I use the toe of the skew.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZVlhr9fLCM

 

[Bill Boehme]

..... I am just curious what the big deal is and why all of these guys who have been turning for years hate the skew......

I don't think that it is serious dislike for the skew, but more on the order of kidding about it because it is usually more difficult to master compared to most other tools and when first learning, the inevitable catches that are sometimes quite spectacular. Even non-beginners get them if not paying attention.

 

[john lucas]

Nick Cook starts his beginners with the skew. It's much easier to understand where the bevel is and how control of the tool comes from riding the bevel. It's also easy to teach how an unsupported edge will cause a catch. You should be cutting on the lower 1/3 of the blade either long point up or long point down. If you get the cut above the center the forces can more easily rock to tool into the work causing a catch because the tool is being supported at the very bottom.
It's like standing a board on it's edge and then rocking it from the top. It will rock very easily but if you try to rock it from a point near the bottom where it's supported it won't rock. It's a leverage thing.
I've often read that a curved edge skew is safer because the long point is further from the wood. Not really. It is slightly if you actually measure it but if you get the cut far enough up the cutting edge to cause a catch with a straight tool it would cause a catch with the curved edge as well. The curved edge has other advantages but in my opinion that isn't one of them.
Here is my latest video on experiments with skews.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFlZyGKYro4

 

[hockenbery]

I don't think that it is serious dislike for the skew, but more on the order of kidding about it because it is usually more difficult to master compared to most other tools and when first learning, the inevitable catches that are sometimes quite spectacular. Even non-beginners get them if not paying attention.

I would agree with Bill.
A skew is the sharpest tool in the box. I usually sand my skew finish with 320.

The one thing that sticks in peoples minds is being nearly done with a piece and having a lapse in bevel contact and putting a spiral catch the length of the finished part.
Of course this is the "Dreaded skews" fault not that of the in attentive turner.

Al

 

[Richard Jones]

John,

Good video as usual. Sound was good, everything in focus, very simple to understand.

I use both curved and straight skews, about 70º, and a little round skew that's a lot handier than I first imagined.

As you stated, practice is key. I can roll a bead much easier and better with a skew than with a spindle gouge. Not as much swing to the tool, cleaner cut.

Again, great vid.

To the OP: I don't have a gripe with the skew, tho' I'm no master with it. It's much less forgiving than a spindle gouge, for sure, and catches are much more spectacular..........

Rich

 

[john lucas]

This is a video I just made public that just sort of discusses all the different skews and grinds. Not meant to be instructive more of a discussion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFlZyGKYro4

 

[MichaelMouse]

"Unsupported edge" and "come off the bevel" mean what? Too steep a pitch angle for the depth of cut? Obviously, it's impossible to support the edge when there are four corners being reduced to cylindrical. Just as obviously it's necessary to come off the bevel to make a bead, where the widest part is the only area in contact. If you press back as you round over, you'll end up with some of those finish-rejecting bruises that are such a pain to sand out. Support on the rest.

Oddly enough, back when what was done with it named the tool, the "beading tool" (see below) was a straight chisel. For beads close together it had a single long bevel rather than being beveled each side. Used to make skews that way too. That way the pitch angle could stay low for a slick shaving.

The traditional forged gouge would also roll a great bead. The cylindrical called spindle as a substitute has problems "coming on" to the bevel and bruising. The traditional grind of the forged spindle gouge was a mild convexity, reminiscent of the curved grind some use on the skew. The broad sweep of the gouge made/makes it an excellent peeling tool.

My 1/2" broad gouges. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Bevels.jpg

Broad sweep gouges rounding.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Roughing.jpg

Straight tools rounding.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/Shoulder-Peeling.jpg

Since there's not much skew angle in the feed, sharp from the grinder is all that's needed to leave what you see.

Cutting a bead with a 1" straight. It's a LOT easier if you can stand in closer without irritating the videographer.
http://s35.beta.photobucket.com/user/GoodOnesGone/media/Bead.mp4.html

Give the old stuff a try. You may rediscover something.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Ain't No Thang [LOL]

Actually, when my daughter asked to learn how to turn a magic wand, it took me all of ten minutes to teach her to use a skew. She actually had more hassle learning to control the spindle roughing gouge. Couple of catches, of course, but she knew what had happened and was good from there on.

 

[john lucas]

I disagree. When you are turning a bead you are always on the bevel. If you lift the edge too much and come off the bevel so only the edge is engaged you get the spiral kick back. I demonstrate it in slow motion when doing demos.
The same is true when doing a planing cut. When your on the bevel you have control of the cut and the depth of cut. If you lift the tool and come off the bevel you get a kickback.

 

[hockenbery]

Turning a bead requires the bevel be on the wood as John said or the cutting edge will spiral backwards.
This is fundamental in any skew lesson.

The exception - if one used the skew as a scraper to round a bead. In this case the skew is fat on the tool rest and the bevel is off the wood.
This actually makes a passable bead in really dense wood.

In cutting square to round as in a pommel the entry has no bevel support but as soon as entry is made I ride the bevel even in the interrupted cut.
A pommel is often just a half bead with corners.

Have fun,
Alf

 

[MichaelMouse]

Take a look at the video. If, in the conventional sense of the "bevel" you mean perpendicular to the edge, you are incorrect. Indeed, as you approach a vertical cut or a tight turn, you can't keep the edge in contact without lifting the heel to gain clearance. Anyone who's bruised the wood with the heel by trying can testify to that.

Support comes from the small portion along the edge which is engaged in beginning and deepening the cut, as with the gouge. That, and a good toolrest of course. The key is to keep the pitch angle low. Just as with whittling, carving or planing any piece of wood with an edge, the higher the angle the greater the resistance encountered as the edge tries to push the shaving away. If you're not firm to the rest and taking advantage of the ability to push the tool almost straight ahead, you can dig harder than you are able to control. Why the overhand grip is preferred.

Quick review of terminology and some examples of shavings obtained at various angles at. http://homepages.sover.net/~nichael/nlc-wood/chapters/caop.html

 

[john lucas]

So we are both talking about the same thing, that is rubbing the bevel right behind the tip. Of course you won't rub the heel of the bevel, at least not on a bead for sure. This is why a convex grind works. your still rubbing the bevel but only the first millimeter.
On my bowl gouges I now grind away most of the main bevel so there is only a short bevel below the cutting edge. Same thing.
MM I'm pretty sure we both turn more or less the same way it's just hard to discuss in words because it's so easily misinterpreted.

 

[Michael Butterfield]

The skew is my favorite tool for working between centers, I mostly use Lacer's 5/8" signature skew- I like the rounded edge between the long and short points for cutting coves.

I'm a pretty new turner and as of yet I haven't met any fellow skew users in my area to learn from, but the Lacer and Raffan videos have been a huge help.

 

[MichaelMouse]

So we are both talking about the same thing, that is rubbing the bevel right behind the tip. Of course you won't rub the heel of the bevel, at least not on a bead for sure. This is why a convex grind works. your still rubbing the bevel but only the first millimeter.
On my bowl gouges I now grind away most of the main bevel so there is only a short bevel below the cutting edge. Same thing.
MM I'm pretty sure we both turn more or less the same way it's just hard to discuss in words because it's so easily misinterpreted.

Got to make it clear for those who just hear "ride" or "rub" the bevel. Can't do either perpendicular. In the case of the skew it's obvious. A plane and a sphere share only one point. The only support we get is where we're modifying the non-sphere.