Hi,
this is an awfull accident ... another awfull accident! I hope you will recover well.
I want to give a reply to James E Gaydon... and then give some advices:
When I hear what he has done (the man who had the accident with the Lancelot), I find his handling was 'stupid' (as you are saying) as well. BUT: this is what I can say NOW, I mean after so many years of woodturning and using machines for wood. I would not be able to say that 4 years ago.
The fact is that if you have not a lot of experience and if you are not particular 'handy' or 'technical minded' .... you simply do not know and simply do not feel in advance what the impact of certain ways of handling can be.
You simply do not feel or know how hard the machines can hit you and neither can you feel or imagine the implications of their strikes. Even when you are carefull, the lack of experience and the fact that you are working alone makes that now and then you make 'faults'. What is a 'fault' only can be concluded AFTER something happens. And if you are not lucky ... then it is sometimes too late.
In my first years:
. I was carefull with the bandsaw but I had no idea that the small piece of wood and the blade would twist that much when it left the wood ... and it damaged my finger ... luckily I was not pushing hard and I was concentrated because I tried to be carefull, so it finished with a couple of stitches
. I also read that you could have a kickback with the chainsaw and that you never may use the nose of the chainsaw and that you must use the metal pins/teeth at the front of the machine to fix the chainsaw ... but the first time I used it, althought I thought I was carefull, I had a kickback, since that time it never happened again ... but I was lucky that nothing happened. Now I know that in this case I did a 'stupid' thing.
. The tablesaw can be dangerous as well and kickbacks are very dangerous, that is what I read , so I was and still am scared as death to use it and I am very very carefull. But one day a very small piece (1 cm2) did not go completely to the end and kicked back: result the nail of my thumb and 3 cm of the flesh beneath had to be stitched. I never could imagine that such a small piece of wood could do so much damage. later, I have read that the speed can be 110 km / hour , and I also read that the best thing is to place yourself completely aside of the tablesaw and that is what I do now ... but it takes time to learn all those things and in the meanwhile a lot of things can happen and ... fellow woodturners with a lot of experience seem to have forgotten the day that they were not experienced at all when they say that it was 'their own fault'.
. One day I was working with oak from the south of France - the rainy side of France where the soil is pure clay. Now I never work with that wood again because now I now that it never stops moving: it grows too fast, too much sun and too much water at once but at that time I did nt know that it was possible that preturned wood was able not to stabilize even after 2 years of preturning. I was a bit in a haste but not too much, I should have controlled if the grip was firm once more (but in case the wood was stable this accident would not have occurred and I did not know that it was THAT unstable) ... my speed must have been lower (but as a young woodturner I was told to have the speed as high as possible because at that time woodturners were proud to say that they turned their pieces at 2500 rpm - anyway I was only turning at 1400 rpm, much too fast anyway (this is what I know now) ... and the piece came off of the lathe. I wore a faceshield so this saved my eye ... I could print similar photographs on the forum but the worst thing what happened is that I felt on the floor and hit the BACK of my head .. which makes that I am permanent handicapped now. I'm still doing woodturning with my handicap although I only can work halftime. There was a photograph in the magazine of a woodturner, a beautifull young lady who died ... it hurted my heart. A while ago there was another announcement of an experienced old Canadese woodturner who died ... and I myself know 2 woodturners , old and experienced as well who died of woodturning.
And how much more ???
Woodturning IS dangerous, it is lovely and my biggest passion but it IS DANGEROUS and we woodturners must be so honest to SAY THAT and why? To help protect the people who are less experienced, less skilled , less talented. It is not good enough to say : it is not dangerous if you are carefull because .... you only can be carefull with the things and acts that you know.
Conclusion:
- it MUST be said that woodturning costs on regular base the life of one or the other (experienced and not - experienced). If the consequence is that some people will not start woodturning well, probably they make the right choice for themself!
- factories put much too dangerous products on the market for not-professionals and professionals and there are almost no usefull safety guidelines in it or ways you may use it or not , not more than the general stuff you find with every new tool you buy.
example: in the woodworkersshop I bought an arbortech. It is a plain metal circle with a couple of very small cutting 'wheels' at the border. I asked information in the shop ... there seemed to be no problems. I used it several times to take away a lot of wood: I kept my dewalt in both my hands and moved it vertical in the wood, horizontal and diagonal ... . One year later I visited a fair for wood and there was a German factory who sold blades with teeth, not the chainsaw teeth but a bit similar. That man told me that it was forbidden to move the arbortech type of blade I had in horizontal direction because accidents occur. He also said that this type of blades were forbidden in Germany because they were unsafe! Since that time, I do not use that type of blade anymore ... but what if something had happened before the time I met that man. Was I uncarefull? No. I simply did not know.
And I blame the factories not to give more guidelines how to use it and I blame the woodworkersshop who want to sell and nothing than sell ... even if this can cause the death ...
- and I think also the woodworkerssociety must be still more explicit. Woodworking is not about JOY. It is about avoiding DANGERS and after that there is some place for joy. I remember there was on this forum a discussion about protection and wearing a faceshield. OK, I agree, a faceshield is a necessity for several reasons. But what do you think will happen if a rather serious piece of wood comes off the lathe? Do you think the effect will be the same as if a fly hits the shield? Do you think it will have no impact on your neck, on your stability, do you think you will be able to stay straight on your both feet as if nothing had happened? You will not, I assure you and if you do then it means that the strike was not hard and is not a real danger.
Most of the time you will have to find a new balance if the strike is really hard and then it may happen that the back of your head is hit, by a cupboard, by a table, by the floor and ... it is wellknown that the back of the head does not have to be hit very hard to cause braindamage. My faceshield was broken, my face was a ruin, red, blue, purple colours ... all over. Both my eyes were closed and thick for a couple of days, the heavy wood was broken in two pieces ... but it is the clash on the floor on the back of my head which causes the permanent handicap. Although, on the back of my head there was apparently no damage: no blood, no gap, just a little bit of pain ... so, once again: WEAR A HELMET.
When I ask the shop to sell helmets they don't do it. Of course, they do not want to present the woodturning as something dangerous, that means a loss of clients (and lives is not their business).
When I put it on the forum .... silence. I'm sure the fellows are thinking: this is not for me - it is not a necessity to go so far, woodturning is a gentle recreation ... and it is ... but not always ... one unlucky time is enough ... I'm handicapped and a guy I know (experienced) died because of that, so it is worth saying it, even if you choose not to do it yourself, it is worth to give the information to others to give them the CHOICE to applicate or not.
. Task for the woodworkerssociety.
I think it is a good idea to gather all kind of stories which occurred with woodworking machines and to make a kind of booklet of it. The stories has to be followed by safety guidelines. To read stories of what happened and how you can avoid this or that is much more effective for the non-experienced user than the much too much abstract warnings. I think there must be a book on this subject because not everybody is following the forum day after day and ... if you enter the forum in 2011 then you do not know about the discussions which were on the forum on 2010! I think that a woodturnerssociety who loves his members has to protect them as effective as they can and that is a way to be effective.
It is not likely that I will soon have another accident. I'm very carefull and much more experienced now. Each time I handle a new machine I'm thinking very carefull about it and I'm thinking all the time about WHAT CAN GO WRONG! When I know what can go wrong I start to work with it - as you see recognizing the danger comes before the pleasure. I can do it now ... because I survived and now I became a more or less experienced woodturner ... but what if one of the accidents who occurred would have caused my death or cut of my hand or several fingers? I am not too technical - but that is not a fault - I have no 'golden' hands but I'm not at all CLUMSY, not at all, I was just working on projects which were too ambitious for somebody with so little experience. Is that a fault - even if you do not realise it? No it is a lack of information and education.
For me this is a very important tag: First think about al the dangers and then think about joy.
Squirrel
this is an awfull accident ... another awfull accident! I hope you will recover well.
I want to give a reply to James E Gaydon... and then give some advices:
When I hear what he has done (the man who had the accident with the Lancelot), I find his handling was 'stupid' (as you are saying) as well. BUT: this is what I can say NOW, I mean after so many years of woodturning and using machines for wood. I would not be able to say that 4 years ago.
The fact is that if you have not a lot of experience and if you are not particular 'handy' or 'technical minded' .... you simply do not know and simply do not feel in advance what the impact of certain ways of handling can be.
You simply do not feel or know how hard the machines can hit you and neither can you feel or imagine the implications of their strikes. Even when you are carefull, the lack of experience and the fact that you are working alone makes that now and then you make 'faults'. What is a 'fault' only can be concluded AFTER something happens. And if you are not lucky ... then it is sometimes too late.
In my first years:
. I was carefull with the bandsaw but I had no idea that the small piece of wood and the blade would twist that much when it left the wood ... and it damaged my finger ... luckily I was not pushing hard and I was concentrated because I tried to be carefull, so it finished with a couple of stitches
. I also read that you could have a kickback with the chainsaw and that you never may use the nose of the chainsaw and that you must use the metal pins/teeth at the front of the machine to fix the chainsaw ... but the first time I used it, althought I thought I was carefull, I had a kickback, since that time it never happened again ... but I was lucky that nothing happened. Now I know that in this case I did a 'stupid' thing.
. The tablesaw can be dangerous as well and kickbacks are very dangerous, that is what I read , so I was and still am scared as death to use it and I am very very carefull. But one day a very small piece (1 cm2) did not go completely to the end and kicked back: result the nail of my thumb and 3 cm of the flesh beneath had to be stitched. I never could imagine that such a small piece of wood could do so much damage. later, I have read that the speed can be 110 km / hour , and I also read that the best thing is to place yourself completely aside of the tablesaw and that is what I do now ... but it takes time to learn all those things and in the meanwhile a lot of things can happen and ... fellow woodturners with a lot of experience seem to have forgotten the day that they were not experienced at all when they say that it was 'their own fault'.
. One day I was working with oak from the south of France - the rainy side of France where the soil is pure clay. Now I never work with that wood again because now I now that it never stops moving: it grows too fast, too much sun and too much water at once but at that time I did nt know that it was possible that preturned wood was able not to stabilize even after 2 years of preturning. I was a bit in a haste but not too much, I should have controlled if the grip was firm once more (but in case the wood was stable this accident would not have occurred and I did not know that it was THAT unstable) ... my speed must have been lower (but as a young woodturner I was told to have the speed as high as possible because at that time woodturners were proud to say that they turned their pieces at 2500 rpm - anyway I was only turning at 1400 rpm, much too fast anyway (this is what I know now) ... and the piece came off of the lathe. I wore a faceshield so this saved my eye ... I could print similar photographs on the forum but the worst thing what happened is that I felt on the floor and hit the BACK of my head .. which makes that I am permanent handicapped now. I'm still doing woodturning with my handicap although I only can work halftime. There was a photograph in the magazine of a woodturner, a beautifull young lady who died ... it hurted my heart. A while ago there was another announcement of an experienced old Canadese woodturner who died ... and I myself know 2 woodturners , old and experienced as well who died of woodturning.
And how much more ???
Woodturning IS dangerous, it is lovely and my biggest passion but it IS DANGEROUS and we woodturners must be so honest to SAY THAT and why? To help protect the people who are less experienced, less skilled , less talented. It is not good enough to say : it is not dangerous if you are carefull because .... you only can be carefull with the things and acts that you know.
Conclusion:
- it MUST be said that woodturning costs on regular base the life of one or the other (experienced and not - experienced). If the consequence is that some people will not start woodturning well, probably they make the right choice for themself!
- factories put much too dangerous products on the market for not-professionals and professionals and there are almost no usefull safety guidelines in it or ways you may use it or not , not more than the general stuff you find with every new tool you buy.
example: in the woodworkersshop I bought an arbortech. It is a plain metal circle with a couple of very small cutting 'wheels' at the border. I asked information in the shop ... there seemed to be no problems. I used it several times to take away a lot of wood: I kept my dewalt in both my hands and moved it vertical in the wood, horizontal and diagonal ... . One year later I visited a fair for wood and there was a German factory who sold blades with teeth, not the chainsaw teeth but a bit similar. That man told me that it was forbidden to move the arbortech type of blade I had in horizontal direction because accidents occur. He also said that this type of blades were forbidden in Germany because they were unsafe! Since that time, I do not use that type of blade anymore ... but what if something had happened before the time I met that man. Was I uncarefull? No. I simply did not know.
And I blame the factories not to give more guidelines how to use it and I blame the woodworkersshop who want to sell and nothing than sell ... even if this can cause the death ...
- and I think also the woodworkerssociety must be still more explicit. Woodworking is not about JOY. It is about avoiding DANGERS and after that there is some place for joy. I remember there was on this forum a discussion about protection and wearing a faceshield. OK, I agree, a faceshield is a necessity for several reasons. But what do you think will happen if a rather serious piece of wood comes off the lathe? Do you think the effect will be the same as if a fly hits the shield? Do you think it will have no impact on your neck, on your stability, do you think you will be able to stay straight on your both feet as if nothing had happened? You will not, I assure you and if you do then it means that the strike was not hard and is not a real danger.
Most of the time you will have to find a new balance if the strike is really hard and then it may happen that the back of your head is hit, by a cupboard, by a table, by the floor and ... it is wellknown that the back of the head does not have to be hit very hard to cause braindamage. My faceshield was broken, my face was a ruin, red, blue, purple colours ... all over. Both my eyes were closed and thick for a couple of days, the heavy wood was broken in two pieces ... but it is the clash on the floor on the back of my head which causes the permanent handicap. Although, on the back of my head there was apparently no damage: no blood, no gap, just a little bit of pain ... so, once again: WEAR A HELMET.
When I ask the shop to sell helmets they don't do it. Of course, they do not want to present the woodturning as something dangerous, that means a loss of clients (and lives is not their business).
When I put it on the forum .... silence. I'm sure the fellows are thinking: this is not for me - it is not a necessity to go so far, woodturning is a gentle recreation ... and it is ... but not always ... one unlucky time is enough ... I'm handicapped and a guy I know (experienced) died because of that, so it is worth saying it, even if you choose not to do it yourself, it is worth to give the information to others to give them the CHOICE to applicate or not.
. Task for the woodworkerssociety.
I think it is a good idea to gather all kind of stories which occurred with woodworking machines and to make a kind of booklet of it. The stories has to be followed by safety guidelines. To read stories of what happened and how you can avoid this or that is much more effective for the non-experienced user than the much too much abstract warnings. I think there must be a book on this subject because not everybody is following the forum day after day and ... if you enter the forum in 2011 then you do not know about the discussions which were on the forum on 2010! I think that a woodturnerssociety who loves his members has to protect them as effective as they can and that is a way to be effective.
It is not likely that I will soon have another accident. I'm very carefull and much more experienced now. Each time I handle a new machine I'm thinking very carefull about it and I'm thinking all the time about WHAT CAN GO WRONG! When I know what can go wrong I start to work with it - as you see recognizing the danger comes before the pleasure. I can do it now ... because I survived and now I became a more or less experienced woodturner ... but what if one of the accidents who occurred would have caused my death or cut of my hand or several fingers? I am not too technical - but that is not a fault - I have no 'golden' hands but I'm not at all CLUMSY, not at all, I was just working on projects which were too ambitious for somebody with so little experience. Is that a fault - even if you do not realise it? No it is a lack of information and education.
For me this is a very important tag: First think about al the dangers and then think about joy.
Squirrel
