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Water Based Urethane Finishes

pete marken

Artist
Joined
Feb 17, 2014
Messages
27
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356
Location
Calera Alabama
I have been thinking of trying a waterbased urethane finish on my current project. Can any of you give your opinion of the quality of this type finish as compared to oil based. My reasoning on this is because of the shorter dry time on the waterbased.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
 
Finishes

In the past 10 years I have moved almost exclusively to waterborne finishes. Target Coatings were the first ones, the Fuhr, and currently I use General's Enduro Clear Poly for almost all of my finishing. I highly recommend them for both speed and clarity, but there are some caveats.

No matter what they claim, every waterborne (or "based" if you prefer) will raise or pucker the surface fibers if applied to unsealed wood. The result is that you won't get the lively depth and richness associated with NGR finishes such as oil or solvent lacquer. There are two methods I use to avoid the problem. First, I like to apply a coat of a fast drying oil sealer such as Waterlox (red can). The sealer can be wiped on, allowed to soak for 15 min., and wiped dry. 2 hours later I will seal the oil with two light coats of 100% dewaxed shellac in a 1.5 lb. cut. with 1 hour between applications. I let the shellac dry well so that as much alcohol as possible has evaporated, usually over night. I then top coat with up to 3 applications of the waterborne. The combination of the fast oil and shellac both pops the grain and seals it against the top coat's water, and so the system provides great finish depth and clarity. Second, depending on the wood I will sometimes skip the oil application and use a 3rd light coat of shellac. Caveat here that dewaxed shellac has a limited shelf-life and regardless of the source (store-bought or shop-made) any mixed linger than 5 months should not be used under a waterborne finish or it may cold-check.

My preferred method for applying shellac and waterbornes to turnings is with a good small HVLP mini-gun. Both finishes can be hand-applied with success, however I prefer the ability to use a light misting application, especially on small things like turnings. Here are 2 examples:

This Ambrosia Maple bowl has the oil/shellac/waterborne combination.

Ambrosia-1.jpg Ambrosia-2.jpg

The blue keepsake urns skipped the oil because I wanted to avoid ambering the deeply dyed blue of the maple burl.

Joe-Choate-1.jpg
 
I gave up on urethanes years ago - maybe things have gotten better - I just didn't like the way the surface felt - a little soft and sticky. I do use urethane paint on metal, but I just don't like the way it feels on wood. So you may want to try a sample and see if you think it's an issue or not - Personally I mostly use lacquer with wax over it if I want high gloss.
 
Quality is equal. Appearance is not. There is nothing colder looking than water based on walnut. Do not sample a finish on a completed piece. Find a piece of scrap from the same wood to practice on.
 
Quality is equal. Appearance is not. There is nothing colder looking than water based on walnut.

Quality among waterbased products is not equal. Crap they sell at Home Depot etm. is just that. Expect to pay $28-38 per quart for good stuff or don't bother.

One beauty of waterborne is that they are simple to tint with pre-met dyes like Homestead's TransTinit or the Moser dyes. Further control on walnut comes from the type of dewaxed shellac which can also be tinted.

For instance:

Here is two coats of Garnet shellac top-coated with Enduro Clear Poly Gloss. Nothing cold about this walnut

Corner Tabel-5-06.jpg Corner Tabel-4-01.jpg
 
I know that I'm coming in late on this thread, but thought I'd add a couple of comments anyway. I have transitioned almost entirely to CA for small pieces and General Finishes Wood Turners Finish for larger pieces. In both cases, the final surface as applied is pretty ugly and will require sanding to get a pleasingly smooth surface. That means you have to apply 6 or 7 coats so you do not sand through. I just sand with 400 grit until the surface is uniformly frosty and then work up through 600, 800 1200 and Abralon 2000 and 4000. This will provide a satin finish. You can then buff with white diamond and carnuba to get a higher gloss. A lot of turners don't like the higher gloss, but nothing beats the clarity of the finish at a higher gloss. People love to hold and touch a really smooth surface, even if it is not high gloss. The advantage of both these finishes is that they dry very fast and you can complete them in about an hour.
 
Has anyone tried the final buffing with a piece of brown paper bag? It really works. I run my lathe up to about 400 - 600 rpm and use the paper bag as you would sand paper. You have to experiment whth some different bags to get the right effect.
 
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For an 'art' piece, maybe. For a daily use bowl, no. It is a surface finish, and with a lot of use, and considering wood movement, it will eventually fail, cracking, splitting, and flaking off. The average owner can't fix that. Oil finishes that penetrate and protect the wood are better.

robo hippy
 
A brown paper bag or even a Bounty paper towel are both too abrasive -- at least for the type of gloss finishes that I like. Even the paper towel creates more scratches than 6000 grit. Once I finish with 12000 grit, scratches may not be visible directly, but their "signature" is still visible -- a slight haziness under bright lighting. A wax treatment helps to improve clarity, but the best thing that I have found is to use Novus 2 or Hut Ultra Gloss applied with cotton balls and then buff with clean cotton balls. Before I started using cotton balls, I never saw an improvement in clarity with either of those polishes.
 
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Thank you all for the helpful info. I believe I will leave the water based stuff alone for now..

The quality waterbornes like Target and General's pro line have a distinct advantage over oil-based products, that being that they provide 100% burn-in with the prior coat when used according to directions. This means that if you sand the finish film you won't get witness lines if you cut through to the prior layer as will happen with oil finishes.
 
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