Watco butcher block finish used for bowls blochiness

[Phillip Medghalchi]

Hi, every one, I have a problem with this finish and am hung up for an answer to remedy this for almost more than a month. I have taken this bowl to the local club and called and talked to some of my friends whom I respect their knowledge n our trade. they could not render any tips that would remedy the problem.
Here is the situation I have used this produst in the past with good success and did not have any problems with it bloching. However, this time using it on the Walnut that came form CA and I have all the frieves one can take, with it.
Notes, I contacted the Rustoleum and they did not give any help. So, I am hoping some out tere tried this product and can give some tips.
Please note that I have tried spot sandig where it did not take the finish and went down from 180 grit to 400 grit, and tried to apply it little thicker to have wood take the finish, but to no avail. I have wet sanded at one stage with mineral spirit (as it states on the can for cleaning), no satisfactory result. I have applied DNA and that didn't help either. Applied acetone as Rustoleum rep told me so.
The only thing I am suspicious of is that since Walnut is an oily wood and I am not sure if I cleaned out with DNA. And, also, the can says to apply it to raw wood which I think in this case it was a mistake doing so, since Walnut is open grain wood and the end grain is much porous.
I am trying to not resort to putting it back on glue block and sanding the whole thing to bare wood which is not going to be that easy and then start the finish all over again.
I appreciate any help.

 

[Gary Beasley]

What I see is end grain absorbing heavily as well as some area of fine tearout making the dull patches. You might need to wash the finish off and sand everything to get rid of the tearout. Not sure if the area that got dark from over absorption will lighten up but the look wont be as bad as you think once the finish is even.

 

[Richard Coers]

By looking at the MSDS for Watco Butcher Block Finish, it's almost 75% thinner. It's really tough to get a film built up when you are using that much thinner. You'll have to put on about 20 coats tif you want a film build up. Was the wood dry?

https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/msds/193144-Watco-Butcherblock-oil.pdf

 

[Bill Boehme]

It looks like you aren't applying the Watco Butcher Block Finish as intended. It is basically thinned tung oil with some resins. I would prefer using a straight oil finish, but this product can be applied the same way: apply with a rag, rubbing it in and then let it sit for about ten minutes. Next, use a clean rag to wipe the surface dry. Wait about a half hour and then wipe the surface again to remove any of the finish that has seeped out of the pores. It appears that you might have applied really heavy coats and then let it sit like you would if applying a varnish.

I like walnut oil. It's quick and easy and doesn't darken the wood as much as linseed oil or tung oil does. And, it smells nice. I don't care for layering different types of finishes so I wouldn't normally apply a film finish over an oil finish. HOWEVER, if you do want to follow the oil finish with a film finish, I would suggest waiting several weeks to allow time for the oil to catalyze.

I see a lot of deep sanding scratches. Don't skip grits when sanding.

PS: Each image was posted three times. I removed the duplicates. If you see an error like this, you have the ability to go back and make corrections.

 

[Doug Freeman]

This product is very similar to minwax wipe on poly, with tung oil instead of linseed oil, which doesnt effect the application process. Both use alkyd resin and are approximately the same solids. I dont know how hard the watco oil will get with alkyd solids it should harden reasonably well.

The issue I see is the wood surface was not uniformly sanded before finish application. It sounds like your application method is to apply a film with a brush and walk away. If correct, I would expect to see exactly what the pics show.

This is not blotching. Its a dry film finish on the shiny areas, And no or insufficient film thickness in the rough areas. I see 3 possible paths forward:

1) keep adding coats and sanding back until the rough areas start to bridge and build a film. These areas will not look great but ok.

2) Use a stripper , sand the surface to get a consistent surface then re-apply finish

3) sand the finish away to a consistent surface, re-apply finish.

I use a lot of wipe on poly. Besides getting a better, more consistent sanded surface, something that will help is to apply a couple of coats like danish oil - flood on, keep wet for 10-15 min, wipe off. This will seal the surface. Then apply a brushed film which will dry more uniformly on the surface. I do wipe on/wipe off for 3-5 coats then buff - minimal film build.

Whether to remount depends on whether you prefer to sand on or off the lathe.

 

[Phillip Medghalchi]

What I see is end grain absorbing heavily as well as some area of fine tearout making the dull patches. You might need to wash the finish off and sand everything to get rid of the tearout. Not sure if the area that got dark from over absorption will lighten up but the look wont be as bad as you think once the finish is even.

Gary, thanks for the insite. I thought tat might be the problem also, and suspect that I may have touched or handled it with some different chemicals or CA on my hands, however, last week. I hand sanded the whole thing again and reapplied the finish again, and I am back to square one. I wonder if this is inherent about Walnut wood? I have the same problem when I try to incorporate cabinet grade maple tha I get end grain tear out and the finish won't be uniform. Maple trees won't grow down here in in San Antonio, like bif maples in North west US. I am still looking for a way to handle maple as well too.
Appreciate you taking time to reply.

 

[Phillip Medghalchi]

Hi

By looking at the MSDS for Watco Butcher Block Finish, it's almost 75% thinner. It's really tough to get a film built up when you are using that much thinner. You'll have to put on about 20 coats tif you want a film build up. Was the wood dry?

https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/msds/193144-Watco-Butcherblock-oil.pdf

Hi, Richard, it's been a long time I have spoken to you from wood central. I did look at the MSDS and although that I am not clear about it, I see that most of it indeed is toxic chemicals, and I am not sure how they say it's food safe finish?
On the other hands if you use it on a butcher block that's segmented with walnut and maple on the end grain cut that how the Devil would this not come out blotchy? YOu'd think that the Mnfrg.could help put which they didn't. The other thing I am not certain is that how they test these products and wether or not if the test doen in controlled envio. which makes it harder when you try to use it an the area of the country with different climate and humidity levels.

 

[Roger Wiegand]

I did look at the MSDS and although that I am not clear about it, I see that most of it indeed is toxic chemicals, and I am not sure how they say it's food safe finish?

What is it that you're seeing that's toxic? Mostly pretty benign volatiles that will be gone as soon as it's dried and a little bit of resin.

This doesn't really look like classic blotching to me, rather an intermediate stage in finishing. It's a very thin varnish that is soaking into the end grain and sitting on top of the side grain. To get a uniform film you'd need to go through rounds of finishing and sanding off the high spots until the end grain pores are filled and the finish can build on top of the wood. With such a thin varnish this will take approximately forever.

For a film finish you might use a varnish with a higher solids content or use a sanding sealer or shellac to pre-fill the pores, or opt for a thinner wipe-on/wipe off finish that you then buff out.

 

[Greg Norman]

i had similar troubles with Behlens version several years ago. They said I was not wiping off the excess well enough. I tried doing a better job of wiping it down after flooding and waiting a bit. I did get better results on some bowls but no matter what I tried I still had some that looked similar to yours. I now only use walnut oil on food contact items and never have any problems.

 

[Phillip Medghalchi]

Roger, i appreciate your insight and the tip. The main issue for using this product was that to put on a finish that's food safe and FDA approved. I have used this product in the past on Mesquite and Bradford Pear that Bill can attest to it, since he is in the same general area that I live. What I was trying to figure out was why is it doing it on Walnut and is there any more preparation that was necessary that I failed to do. I followed the can's instruction and applied the finish directly on the raw wood which now I realize form above posts that I made a mistake and did not seal the wood before applying the finish. I also, noticed that it was best to put it on and wife off the excess and come back wipe it again until I build up a nice finish. Teh direction on this oil finish did not say so. When talking to the manufacturer the rep could not tell me in what environment they did the test before the write up the directions. The other issue was that I was not too sure about it being a film. The misleading ithe direction of the can says that apply to bare wood.

 

[Michael Lyle]

I am wondering what you are going to eat out of a
walnut bowl.!!!!!
Chili, cereal w/milk, lasagna, or is it just to be a fruit or chips bowl???
Not trying to bea wise guy.....but.... and tell me if I am wrong
but are'nt most wood bowls only used for display, and chips, and nuts,
and fruit etc. and not for wet items like soup??????
although salad is used in wood bowls.....yes

My point is how often do we put our selves in danger
from a wooden bowl finish.

Maybe this "food safe finish". is fodder for another thread. ....of which exists on another thread already.......
Next question:

Have you used any sanding sealer?

MLyle

 

[Clifton C]

Michael, I use my bowls for any and everything. All the things on your list and then some. Soups/stews, ice-cream, oat meal, eggs, bacon, french toast etc... I throw them in a sink full of hot soapy water scrub, rinse and drip dry. I ran one thru the dishwasher because every one said not to, figured if it got ruined, I knew where to get another. (It got fuzzy so I re-sanded) I agree with your point, I don't think we are putting ourselves in danger, but with all the things we make, the finish has to match the piece. I don't mind a lacquered bowl that sits on a shelf, I just know not to throw it in with the utility bowls. Where was I going with this? I can't remember. After I followed Richards MSDS post, all I could think of was $17 for about 4 ounces of Tung oil and then I got all discombobulated...

 

[Michael Lyle]

Wow....all I can think of is.....

All yer cash goes for Tung oil. !!!!

An you cant afford real dishwater safe plates.....

Bacon and eggs???? Well I would make sure I rinsed soon after
breakfast.....if not then i have to break out the brush and there goes the finish.

thanks just kidding....I do not mean to offend....

 

[Clifton C]

Offend?, Me neither...
Like others, I do like reading the MSDS, or the new SDS. As was pointed out, Watco butcher block is almost 75% thinner. At 17/pint, that's expensive thinner... As to affording real plates, I've been called a cheap bast#!%... I prefer "Thrifty" yea, Thrifty that's what I am...

 

[robo hippy]

I will stick to the walnut oil, not nearly as many things can go wrong. Part of that also, is that I won't put anything that I can't eat, out of the can, on some thing I am going to eat out of. All of the solvents are supposed to turn into 'inert ingredients' when they are done curing. I was chatting with some one at a show once, and she was sensitive to those solvents. She said what is left isn't always 'inert', and she could react to some of them.

Other than that, no clue as to why you are getting that type of reaction to that finish. Some times differing grain orientations can cause darker and lighter spots, but the grain in these seems to be fairly even. Some times, you just need more coats of finish...

As for eating out of bowls and plates, I have eaten just about anything that fits onto my plates and bowls for years, from soup to BBQ, to stir fry, and had no problems. I would not put hot wet foods on walnut as the heat and moisture can draw that walnut wood flavor into what you eat. You do need to clean your bowls and plates after using. Main thing to avoid is food build up on your bowls. That is what can go sour, and once that happens, about the only thing you can do to get rid of that smell is to burn it... I use a plastic scrubby, and hot water. I seldom use soap though it doesn't hurt your bowls. I have been using the same plate for maybe 3 years now. This one has a CA glued in knot and I wanted to see how it held up. I am getting some small chipping out of the CA glue, but it still is holding up well. It has been at least a year since I oiled it last...

robo hippy

 

[Dean Center]

Phillip, if you're having a problem with a walnut bowl that you didn't have with mesquite and Bradford pear, perhaps it's the difference in the grain of the wood. I haven't turned Bradford pear or mesquite, but my understanding is that they have a smooth, tight grain. Walnut has a more open grain. Perhaps the more open grain is sucking up the finish on the end grain, as has been suggested, while the other two woods do not do so to the same extent. Just a theory. If that's the case, sanding and repeating the finish will eventually give you the result you desire.

If you want to use a Tung oil finish, instead of the Butcher Block Finish, I've had good results with Corey's Pure Tung Oil thinned 2:1 with D-limonene (citrus oil), both of which are food safe, though a little slow. (And for $17, you get a quart of 100% heat treated tung oil, Michael and Clifton) (disclaimer: I have no financial interest in Corey Freedman's Skin Boats store or school)

 

[Phillip Medghalchi]

I am wondering what you are going to eat out of a
walnut bowl.!!!!!
Chili, cereal w/milk, lasagna, or is it just to be a fruit or chips bowl???
Not trying to be a wise guy.....but.... and tell me if I am wrong
but aren't most wood bowls only used for display, and chips, and nuts,
and fruit etc. and not for wet items like soup??????
although salad is used in wood bowls.....yes

My point is how often do we put our selves in danger
from a wooden bowl finish.

Maybe this "food safe finish". is fodder for another thread. ....of which exists on another thread already.......
Next question:

Have you used any sanding sealer?

MLyle

 

[Phillip Medghalchi]

Micheal, first my intention for designing this bowl was to use it for salad bowl and other eatable use. your next comment was not clear . but you mentioned that you did not want to be a wise guy.
Answer to your second qsn. is that no. I tall depends on of that nature of design. Some bowls are made to be decorative if they are delicately deign to sever that purpose, and others can be used for utilitarian use. I tall depends on the demand. As a woodturner one should e able to turn something to be used for food consumption purpose. My question was not about a food safe finish. I simply asked if any one has ever encountereds such problem and for the sake of being clear I wrote what kind of finished I used.
The last question, I did not use any sanding sealer because the direction on the can says apply the finish on raw wood so I did that. Yesterday I tried rubbing the sanding sealer on the cloudy parts thta was carefully wet sanded and it appears that I amy have the solution. I only did that on the small bowl we'll see what the outcome is.

 

[Phillip Medghalchi]

i had similar troubles with Behlens version several years ago. They said I was not wiping off the excess well enough. I tried doing a better job of wiping it down after flooding and waiting a bit. I did get better results on some bowls but no matter what I tried I still had some that looked similar to yours. I now only use walnut oil on food contact items and never have any problems.

greg, I tried to do that and it's realy sticky and smears as asoon as you put it on and also, if you wait too long it gets real tacky.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Phillip, I purchased a can of this finish just to test. It is hi viscosity out of the can, inhibiting spreading and absorption. I recommend thinning the finish with ms, start at 1:1, and give it a try. If it starts to get tacky on the bowl just add a little ms. Film build, if you want it, will be 1/2 since its thinned 1/2. It is a somewhat soft film and I would not recommend leaving a film for that reason. Film is similar to danish oil.