Was told this was walnut, but I don't think so. What the heck is it?

[Ric Williams]

I was given the trunk of a dead tree that was taken down early this spring hear in Michigan. I was told it was walnut, and it's from an area that has a bunch of walnut trees, so I didn't questions it. I processed the wood, cut it into blanks and sealed the edges with paraffin, knowing that I wouldn't get to it right away. I just roughed the first blank and the color and grain don't seem right and it smells kinda like scented soap. It's also the toughest green wood I've turned so far. It's not like any walnut I've seen or used. Any idea what I'm dealing with here?
BTW, the end grain in the 2nd pic has paraffin on it.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

Looks kind of like black locust to me.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

Here’s Hoadley’s description of black locust, and also a page from my old dendrology textbook describing the tree.

 

[Richard Coers]

Elm

 

[Dave Bunge]

The grain in picture #4 looks like it might be elm.

The bowl in picture #3 looks like it could be butternut, which is not particularly hard, but might dull your tools quickly. I've turned some, including some that was advertised as walnut when I picked it up. The color is much lighter than walnut.

One way to tell if it's butternut or walnut vs something else is to look at the pith. Butternut and walnut are the only two common woods that have a "chambered" pith. The very center of the pith on the cross section of a log will look different from other trees, with kind of a hollow, soft center. If you split the pith on a log or twig lengthwise, you can see chambers. A google search of walnut chambered pith will yield lots of pictures. Both walnut and butternut have chambered piths, so you cannot use that to distinguish between them. But you tell if it's (walnut or butternut) vs something else like elm or locust.

 

[robo hippy]

That pattern in the bowls says elm. Elm does have a tendency to smell like the cats have been spraying it. Walnut also has a distinct smell to it, but I can't describe it other than to say it smells like walnut. Butternut/white walnut smelled like vinegar to me. Black walnut will turn your fingers and anything else black when you handle it.

robo hippy

 

[Al Chavez]

Elm is what I would guess but its only a guess and I am a newbie. I need a good Field Guide to Trees.
Moved my question to new thread. Asking for Field guides for id-ing wood.
Al

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I have turned quite a bit of this wood, that is Siberian elm.
e
Ulmus pumila sometimes Called Chinese Elm but quite different from that tree.

The heartwood can be very dark almost like Black Walnut, but the wwwwww of the Elm grain makes it easily to ID it.

A couple Siberian elm bowls I turned some 20 years ago.

 

[Ric Williams]

This stuff is dense, hard and heavy. One thing I'll say forit is that it makes it really easy to tell when my gouge needs to be sharpened. If it's freshly sharpened it cuts ok but slowly. Within a few minutes the edge is gone and it starts bouncing. I could do a couple passes across a face, then it was time to sharpen again. I also noticed that when hollowing, there was a lot of stringy wood still hanging where I'd just cut. To me the smell is distinctly like liquid hand soap. It's definitely ring porous with wide spacing between rings, which would seem to indicate fast growing. There's a lot of that fine grain pattern like in picture 4. Doesn't look at all like the butternut board I have, but that's far from conclusive. It does look a lot like the Siberian elm bowls, though the heartwood is a lot lighter. I wish there'd been some leaf material and/or twigs around to help with identification. I'm going to look through the off cut pile to see if I can mind some pith material. The bark is pretty thick and courser than the locust right outside my window. Looking at various pics of elm grain, it resembles Siberian or red elm the most.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Ric I'll add a few pictures of Siberian elm I have turned, I've quite a few of them, also of American Elm and Slippery Elm, Rock Elm andSiberian Elm.

Yes the Siberian Elm can grow fast, we had a large one behing our house in London Ont., (picture of LOML made the last day or so before moving to where we live now)

Also 2 pictures of a natural edge bowl, first without a finish, second one with a Polymerized Tung Oil finish, the color changes quite a bit that way, besides not all trees will give the same color wood.

 

[Ric Williams]

Yep, I'd say Leo nailed it. Thanks Leo! The pic labeled Siberian Elm unfinished looks exactly like the wood I've got. Read some other comments specific to turning Elm and this stuff fits the descriptions pretty well. It'll give me lots of sharpening practice. I have several bowl gouges with various grinds and this'll be a good test for which (if any) works best in my hands for tough wood.
Thanks to you all for helping ID this wood!

 

[Dean Center]

Just a bit off the main topic, but if your liquid hand soap smells like elm, you need to change brands of hand soap. Eww!

Siberian elm smells less strongly than some other elm I've turned, but still--it smells like critter urine.

 

[robo hippy]

I have turned some elm that didn't stink. When dry, the smell reminds me of the cottonwood trees in the river bottoms areas. Out here in western Oregon, an elm tree can have growth rings 3/4 inch +. I did a show up in Portland at a community college up there, and the court yard was ringed by American Elm, 60 to 80 foot tall, and covered with burls. Drool!!!! Used to fly into Winnipeg in summers to head out for a fishing trip. Cab driver told me they have the highest per capita number of American Elm trees in North America. They are nice trees, kind of mottled shade under them, not total cover/canopy.

Leo, I found a black locust flower sprig in the yard yesterday. Smells really nice. I figured out why I never really smelled it. Prevailing winds are out of the north at this time of year, and the tree is on the south side of my property.

robo hippy

 

[Roger Chandler]

definitely Elm. that classic "z" grain is a dead giveaway.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Reed the smell of Elm has never bothered me, and when returning when dry there is no smell to speak of, Yes I've been in Winnipeg a few times and there are stil large American Elms around, but over here they are basically all gone.

My youngest son by Ottawa has some acres of property around his house, when he bought it there was still quite a bit of Elm and Ash trees on it, that was about 15 years ago, now there are still two large Rock Elm trees, the rest of the Elms are gone and so is all the Ash there was, he has been planting trees, but it takes a long time to build back up what is lost with other species of trees.

If it wasn't for Maple, Oak, Hickory, Cherry, Birch, Walnut, Butternut and a lot of Hop-horn-beam, some wild Apple and a few softwood type trees there wouldn't be anything left.

He did plant a few Honey Locust and a Kentucky Coffee tree that is surviving plus a Carpathian Walnut that the deer keep eating and they also like the other small saplings he planted. but eventually some will get past that and grow tall.

Yes I think I saw a posting from George (MickyMouse etc) but I very seldom go to these forums, spend too much time in front of the computer as is ;-))

He take care and smell those Back Locust blossoms !!