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Wall thickness for twice turned bowls

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I understand and follow the 10% rule when leaving the wall thickness for twice turned bowls, but my question concerns how far do you go. I am currently working on some Hickory that will yield a 15-16" bowl and a wall thickness of 1 1/2" seems a little excessive to me. What happens if i turn a 20" bowl-2" of wall thickness? It seems like it will take forever to dry even at 1 1/2".

What is the consensus?

TIA
Wally
 
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The tangential shrinkage of the 20" bowl could easily be 1.5" assuming an 8% . The reason for the 10% rule of thumb is to allow for enough material to clean up the dried, oblong bowl into a dry round bowl. One thing to remember is there will effectively be a lot of end grain open to the local atmosphere (controlled or otherwise). It will dry much quicker than a 1.5" thick board that effectively has only side grain open to atmosphere.
 
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I had a bowl that I roughed out of some Oak. It started at a little over 12" so I left 1.25" wall. I finished that bowl at 1/2" wall by the time I was back to round inside and out. I currently have some 20" drying out and I did leave 2" wall on them. Waiting to see how these do once they get dry.
 
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What kind of hickory? And as Kevin implied, what’s the beginning moisture content? And is the drying and turning environment climate controlled? The Wood Database gives T/R shrinkage rates of from 1.4 to 1.7 (or 1.8 if you include Pecan). But remember, these are averages and there are other factors plus variations between individual trees within a given species.

I haven’t rough turned bowls since at about 15 years ago so my experience is “old”, if that matters, but when I did twice-turn I used the numbers to calculate the minimum thickness then added a healthy fudge factor.

None of the bowls I turned from those failed to have enough thickness. (I finished-turned a few from my 15-year-old stash just a few months ago) I personally would rather turn green extra thick to be on the safe side, seal wisely, and just be patient about the drying. Better to be way too thick than a little bit too thin - similar to what I always told my kids: better to be a whole lot early than a little bit late. Those I know who twice-turn a lot seem to have developed a good “sense” of what is required for various situations. (Some of that probably learned the hard way.)

I most often twice-turned black cherry which has a T/R ratio closer to 2.

As for long drying time, unless you build something like a fridge/freezer drying chamber, that’s just the way it is. If you don’t have one, maybe get a good moisture meter. A pin-type will work on non-flat surfaces.

Have you considered skipping the drying and finish turn while green and let the piece warp?

These days I only turn dry wood and things are more predictable. Life is good.

JKJ
 

hockenbery

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Hickory. Tangential Shrinkage: 8.9%; Radial Shrinkage: 4.9% (your species may vary)
Sycamore Tangential :8.4%, Radial :5.0%.

A 20” bowl will have twice the shrinkage of a 10” bowl of the same species.

Below is a dried 11” diameter sycamore bowl with about 1” thick walls I returned in a demo. Sycamore has similar shrinkage to hickory. This bowl was close to dead wet when I roughed it out.
The rim shrinkage is mostly radial + a little for tangential that pulls the side grain part of the rim toward the foot.
The bowl was centered on the grain so shrinkage is symmetrical.
I centered the rim when I returned the bowl so i take almost no wood off the side grain edge of the rim.

Ready to hollow I have about a 1/2” thick wall at the endgrain sides of rims.
1” rim thickness at the sidegrain sides of the rim.
So I can get a nice 3/8 - 1/4” wall

IMG_2329.jpeg
 
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It did surprise me as to how much more Hickory did shrink compared to the woods I was used to, and move from wet to dry, happened a long time ago, it was a learning lesson to get info on the shrinkage of wood I had no experience with, though I did not loose any of these early pieces, they all got thinner walls than intended.

Here are two pics of a large Sycamore rough out that I turned, and yes left it at 10%, so the 20 inch rough bowl had a 2" thick wall, returned when it had dried to a 1/2" wall, yes it does take longer to dry, but given it time, they do not split or tear itself apart.

My normal manner of SAFE drying gets done in brown paper (craft) bags (craft paper sheets).
So it depends in what do you want to end up with, splits or no splits.

Just drying some thin pieces is easy and does take less time, things do change a lot when you get pieces that are a lot larger/thicker.


Sycamore rough turned.jpgSycamore finished.jpg
 
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I would follow the 10% rule, just to be sure. I once turn my bowls and love for them to warp. The Pacific Madrone I prefer warps way beyond the 10% rule, and I don't like to boil it, which tends to muddle the colors together. Boiling is a lot of work, but it does help stabilize the wood and relieve stress before you get cracks.

robo hippy
 
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Thanks guys. My rough bowl turned out at 15". and my wall is about 1 5/8". The wood was pretty wet, having just been cut down in August. I am not sure of the variety of Hickory other than it is not shag bark. I usually rough turn, rounding the edges as Robo suggests, then coat with two coats of glue/water to seal the entire thing. I will sit it on the shelf for a couple months, and put it in my fridge/drying box to finish. This process has given me minimal cracks
 
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