• It's time to cast your vote in the January 2025 Turning Challenge. (click here for details)
  • Conversations are now Direct Messages (click here for details)
  • Congratulations to Alan Weinberg for "Elm Burl Bowl" being selected as Turning of the Week for January 27, 2025 (click here for details)
  • Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

Waiting to upgrade

Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
2,052
Likes
385
Location
Martinsville, VA
I have been resistant to upgrading to cbn wheels.....I finally can shout hurah!!!!!!

Just saw ad for diamond wheels!!!!!!!

Well I am officially resistant but will gladly watch the coming storm. HURAH!!!!!!
 
I held out for a long time on CBN.
Wasn’t any reason to switch.

Then I used one in a demo room. I was immediately sold on it by how smooth it felt usinging it.
I like smooth lathes and tools that cut smoothly.
A few weeks later my local club had a club discount buy and I joined in.

For turning the tools get sharp on the Norton 3x so there is no to rush out and buy CBN wheels
It’s a nice to have.
I do think they give a slightly better edge to the PM tools.
 
Don't buy diamond wheels. They break down when used to sharpen turning tools. Diamond hones on the other hand work great for what we do. CBN wheels are fabulous. However I sharpened for an awfully long time, and still do on some tools, with an Aluminum Oxide wheel. when I need to sharpen a students tools free hand instead of in a jig it is so much easier on the CBN. There simply isn't any bounce and it's very easy to "feel" the bevel and know where you are sharpening.
there has been some discussion on sharpening carbon steel tools on the CBN wheels. I have not done it for fear of ruining the CBN but I read a comment somewhere by someone I think it fairly knowledgeable and he said he sharpens them all the time on the CBN with no problems. Anyone want to tackle that. If I could sharpen all of my tools on the CBN I would toss my Aluminum Oxide and get a courser CBN for the other side of my grinder. I have a lot of homemade tools that I use that are High Carbon Steel.
 
I bought the standard slow speed grinder 1700 rpm....wheels came it....60 grit oxide & 120 grit oxide......I replace the 120 grit oxide with 100 grit Norton white wheel.....that's what I use mostly....about 10 years ago
 

Attachments

  • 20180304_101149-1.jpg
    20180304_101149-1.jpg
    306.6 KB · Views: 24
  • 20180304_101323-1.jpg
    20180304_101323-1.jpg
    144.6 KB · Views: 21
Maybe I need to get a CBN wheels part 2 article done.... As far as what you can grind on CBN wheels, well, pretty much anything, but...... CBN is made specifically for 'hardened' steel/metals. So bench chisels are fine, shovel blades (well most of them) axe heads and similar metals. The soft metals like lawn mower blades are not good for the wheels, same with aluminum, brass, and copper. With the hardened metals, the powder comes off of the wheel as you sharpen. With the softer metals, the shavings/dust tend to stick to the abrasives, the wheel loads up, and you get a ticking sound and/or bump as you sharpen. Yes, I did load a wheel up intentionally with all of the above metals on an old set of wheels. To clean the wheels, just take a scraper and spend some time sharpening on the wheel. It may take several sharpenings to remove all of the build up, and some lapping fluid helps as well. It took a month to remove all of the visible build up. I always sharpen my Big Ugly tools on the CBN wheels, which is tantung silver soldered to cold rolled (softer steel). The tantung pretty much cleans up any build up as I sharpen, but I still grind most of the heel/cold rolled steel off, kind of like relieving the bevel on inside bowl gouges. I did finally retire a set of CBN wheels, but I have no idea how old they were, at least 7 or 8 years, maybe 10. I haven't done production turning in several years, but still they got a lot of use, but finally they just didn't cut well. Interesting to me is that the old wheels (80 and 180) left a more polished surface than my new 600 grit wheel. Coffee hasn't kicked in, but I think it is Glenn Lucas who 'finds good homes' for his CBN wheels after a year.

I used to suggest an 80 and 180 grit wheel for standard. Now, I would say 180, and then maybe a 600 or so grit wheel, but I haven't experimented with the 320 to 400 grit wheels, so don't really know. The 180 raises an excellent burr for my scrapers for heavy roughing and shear scraping, and does just as good of a job as the 80 grit wheel. I really don't see any significant differences. I will note here that I prefer a burnished burr on my scrapers for shear scraping. The 80 grit wheel will take off metal pretty quickly, which is pretty good for minimal reshaping of tool profiles, but if I want to get serious about it, I take the tool to the 36 grit belt sander. The 600 grit makes for an excellent finish cut edge, but that edge is lousy for heavy roughing because it goes dull so quickly. Pretty much the same for scrapers or gouges. If you want to so some shaping of your tools, a 36 to 60 grit wheel is better than an 80 grit CBN. Dave Schweitzer of D Way uses a 60 grit 10 inch wheel on a high speed grinder for his shaping of tools...

Once you use a CBN wheel for sharpening, it is kind of like variable speed lathes. It is so far better, that you have no problem justifying the expense, and will never go back to standard wheels for tool sharpening.

On diamond wheels, years ago, I had a conversation with the Cuttermaster/Tradesman wheels and grinder up in Canada about wheels. Diamond wheels on slow speed or high speed grinders degrade really quickly because the diamond won't handle the heat from sharpening. On really slow speed grinders, like 300 to 400 rpm, they work fine. I don't think they load up though. I do have a set of DMT 3 by 8 inch plates for honing tools, and had pretty much retired them after 20 plus years because they just didn't cut any more. Perhaps due to loading up, but Ajax and water didn't clean them up. I got some Trend Lapping fluid to see how it would help clean up my CBN wheels (did a pretty good job actually...), and put some on the plates. They started cutting very well again. Not sure what other options there are for cleaning them up, but water as a lubricant/cleaner does not do the job.

robo hippy
 
Don't buy diamond wheels. They break down when used to sharpen turning tools.

@john lucas
They don't wear out for the reason that you give, but as Reed stated, the problem is heat due to the high speed (to a diamond 1750 RPM is high speed) plus the lack of a coolant. Neither of those issues apply to the Tormek since the speed is a very low 90 RPM and Tormek highly recommends running the wheel in water for the best longevity although you can use the diamond wheel dry. The water bath serves two purposes ... cooling and flushing out the swarf.

Speaking of cooling, I'll bet that the price tag on the Tormek diamond wheels will have a chilling effect on my enthusiasm. The one thing that grabbed my attention is that a diamond wheel running in water at very slow speed can be used to sharpen carbide cutters
 
Glenn Lucas just posted that he has had the Tormek diamond wheels for a year, and they don't seem to wear out. I would expect to see them in Portland. He says diamond is twice as hard as boron. I can't think that there is any heat generated on the Tromek diamond wheel, and that the water would be more for keeping metal dust out of the air. Rust would be the only problem..... More toys...

robo hippy
 
The wheels might be nylon like the new Spartan CBN wheels that Ken Rizza (Woodturners Wonders) sells for the Tormek. More than the diamond wheels, I am fascinated by the clever new attachment that enables you to do dead flat bevel grinding on the side of the wheel.
 
I will take 58 days on the lottery for How long Bill can hold out on this diamond grinder. Stay strong Bill.
 
John, "Rod & Truck" says:
Those two hitch points on the front bumper will definitely come in handy for the tow truck operator. Be sure to let him know to that you have 4WD so that he can bring along an extra spool of cable to reach you. And, don't forget to order an enclosed trailer for the Robust ... I really hate it when I can't quickly change belt speeds because of all the mud packed on the headstock. But, on the upside, this is where those stainless steel ways really shine. Brent was definitely thinking way ahead of the pack on this one. :)

If you put a generator on the trailer, you can use those three Robust horses in granny gear to winch you back onto the pavement.
 
I will take 58 days on the lottery for How long Bill can hold out on this diamond grinder. Stay strong Bill.

I haven't preordered yet. :D

It's 86 more days until officially D-day (Diamond day), but who's counting. :rolleyes: :)
 
Back
Top