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Visualizing end result

Fadi Zeidan

Fadi Zeidan

Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Messages
469
Likes
244
Location
San Antonio, TX
I was turning a vase Yesterday when i realized why I’m not always happy with the shape of the end result. The way I see a shape sideways is different than when it is right side up. I started looking at pictures of turned objects and twisted sideways and noticed that I see them as distorted for lack of better word.

I’m hoping that is not limited creativity and more of being accostumed to seeing objects sideways. I’m trying to figure out best way to overcome it u til I start visualizing the work correctly. Take the piece off the lathe and look at it, or take a picture of it and turn it sideways.
 
You are not alone there Fadi, I too find myself standing back, turning my head sideways, appraising the progress. With new (to me) designs, I almost always sketch the piece first on quadrille paper and transfer key measurements to the work in process.
 
Fadi,

I switched my hollowing rig to use a camera instead of the laser. That was remarkably easy, & I hooked mine up to an old, used computer monitor. Total cost <$50. What I used is :
  1. Swann Microcam 720p Security Camera, 1 megapixel resolution. $25 @ Micro Center (uses a BNC Connector) (http://www.microcenter.com/product/481586/MicroCam_720p_Security_Camera)
  2. VGA video PC converter adapter with BNC $18 @ Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ENH8MTW/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Works like a champ, & might be a solution for seeing if this helps.

Rich
 
Thanks Rich! I’ll look into your recommendation. I have Hope’s system and I was thinking of buying his camera, this is cheaper option.
Something like that could help if I set it in fixed position as John said and rotate the camera to get the right side up.
 
Fadi Zeidan said:
I was turning a vase Yesterday when i realized why I’m not always happy with the shape of the end result. The way I see a shape sideways is different than when it is right side up. I started looking at pictures of turned objects and twisted sideways and noticed that I see them as distorted for lack of better word.

I’m hoping that is not limited creativity and more of being accostumed to seeing objects sideways. I’m trying to figure out best way to overcome it u til I start visualizing the work correctly. Take the piece off the lathe and look at it, or take a picture of it and turn it sideways.
Click to expand...

Like Dennis said, you aren't alone. I vote for taking rhe vase off the lathe and viewing it from different perspectives. A photo has its own limitations including lens distortions and the fact that the image is only two dimensional. One other thing that I would like to suggest is to turn it upside down. A good form should look good upside down as well as right side up. Sometimes you might even discover that you like a form better when inverted.

I've mentioned this personal experience previously, but here is my story about thinking outside the hollowform:
I was hollowing a small box elder vase when my wife stopped to see what I was doing. After a bit she asked, "why are you hollowing it from the bottom?" "That's the top ", I replied. "No, that's the bottom", she replied back. Well, it's time to show her who's right, I thought to myself so I removed it from the chuck and sat it [what I thought was] right side up on the bed of the lathe. "See", I said smugly. "Turn it over", she ordered. Hmmmm ...... well what do you know. The difference was really surprising. While my planned orientation was "nice", turning it over was far better than just "nice".
​
I learned later that hollowing from the bottom is actually a legitimate means of hollowing in some situations.
 
One test of a great form is how good it looks upside down. @Bill Boehme you had an exceptional form....

I have pretty good sense if the shape in the horizontal but is do lean I’ve now an then for a confirmation look.
I often put a new form in the family room where I can glance at it for a few days and decide where to tweak the next one.
 
At a talk Butch Smuts gave a couple of years ago here in South Africa, his comments were take the piece off the lathe with the chuck still attached and put it down so that you can see it the correct way up. Screw the chuck back on and continue turning,
Also don't remove the foot , but put it in a place you can see it for a couple of days as Hockenberry suggests. With the foot still on it is easy to put it back in the chuck/lathe and do some more shaping. Only remove the foot when you are satisfied with the shape etc.
 
I draw the proposed design to scale first to get an idea of proportions, wall thicknesses, the golden mean, etc.
This shows the cross section first and then revolved to a solid model. The solid model can viewed from any angle using the mouse.
I'm using a CAD program that's a bit too expensive for only this purpose. There are a number of open source, free programs that'll do this.
There may even be software specific for woodturners to do this.

On edit: here's a program that appears to do this.
http://www.creative-woodturner.com/index.php


bowl-cross-section.JPG bowl-cross-section-revolved.JPG
 
Last edited:
Turning bewteen centers lets me see what I have before I begin hollowing.

My general way of working is to start with an idea and a blank.
Maybe sketch the form on the end of the blank
I Get a rough shape as i’m roughing It round with top at the drive center and bottom at the tailstock.
I check on the Diameter, height, where the wide part of the form is.
The height can be changed by cutting wood off the top,or the bottom. To keep the natural edge only off the bottom. I sometimes cut several inches off to get the right height.
Then rough turn the tenon and a notion of the foot and rough turn the rim.
Refine the curve Connecting the foot and rim with special,attention the wide part of the form.
Refine the height and turn the tenon
Once the form is ready go into the chuck or on a faceplate, I can set it somewhere a look at it.
I can turn and refinements between centers or after it is mounted in the chuck adjustments or on the faceplate.
 
Last edited:
Bill Boehme said:
Like Dennis said, you aren't alone. I vote for taking rhe vase off the lathe and viewing it from different perspectives. A photo has its own limitations including lens distortions and the fact that the image is only two dimensional. One other thing that I would like to suggest is to turn it upside down. A good form should look good upside down as well as right side up. Sometimes you might even discover that you like a form better when inverted.

I've mentioned this personal experience previously, but here is my story about thinking outside the hollowform:
I was hollowing a small box elder vase when my wife stopped to see what I was doing. After a bit she asked, "why are you hollowing it from the bottom?" "That's the top ", I replied. "No, that's the bottom", she replied back. Well, it's time to show her who's right, I thought to myself so I removed it from the chuck and sat it [what I thought was] right side up on the bed of the lathe. "See", I said smugly. "Turn it over", she ordered. Hmmmm ...... well what do you know. The difference was really surprising. While my planned orientation was "nice", turning it over was far better than just "nice".
​
I learned later that hollowing from the bottom is actually a legitimate means of hollowing in some situations.
Click to expand...

I have the opposite experience, my wife likes them the way they turn out, even though I see flaws. I realized that my last piece looked better upside down as well :) I was thinking of returning it but I already hollowed it and not worth plugging the bottom. Wife liked it as is.

I’ll start taking it off the lathe with chuck attached
 
hockenbery said:
Turning bewteen centers lets me see what I have before I begin hollowing.

My general way of working is to start with an idea and a blank.
Maybe sketch the form on the end of the blank
I Get a rough shape as i’m roughing It round with top at the drive center and bottom at the tailstock.
I check on the Diameter, height, where the wide part of the form is.
The height can be changed by cutting wood off the top,or the bottom. To keep the natural edge only off the bottom. I sometimes cut several inches off to get the right height.
Then rough turn the tenon and a notion of the foot and rough turn the rim.
Refine the curve Connecting the foot and rim with special,attention the wide part of the form.
Refine the height and turn the tenon
Once the form is ready go into the chuck or on a faceplate, I can set it somewhere a look at it.
I can turn and refinements between centers or after it is mounted in the chuck adjustments or on the faceplate.
Click to expand...

In one of your presentation videos, you advised new turners to turn the same shape 10 to 20 times. I need to keep doing the same or similar shape until I am happy with the process and start bridging side view with upright view too.
 
Fadi Zeidan said:
In one of your presentation videos, you advised new turners to turn the same shape 10 to 20 times. I need to keep doing the same or similar shape until I am happy with the process and start bridging side view with upright view too.
Click to expand...
I find that that works for so many people. I know it works for me. The repetition allows me to cocentrate on the shape. after the first 2 or 3, in which I concentrated on how to hold it in the lathe and the steps, i the steps and mounting are sort of automatic.
 
i started putting a white poster board behind my bowl turnings to help with profile. This was a tip Odie gave in the tips form regarding his bowls. It does help me visualize the shape much better. The next hollow form I do I am going to draw the shape and see how that works.
 
William Rogers said:
i started putting a white poster board behind my bowl turnings to help with profile. This was a tip Odie gave in the tips form regarding his bowls. It does help me visualize the shape much better. The next hollow form I do I am going to draw the shape and see how that works.
Click to expand...

It may just be my eyes but I prefer a black foam board behind my bowls. I have cataracts and my eyes are sensitive to bright lights.
 
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