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Vicmarc VL 240 swivel head lathe......
- Thread starter Odie
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I just spoke with Glenn Lucas about this lathe. He is impressed with it. Christian at Woodworkers Emporium told me he was ordering one in. That was about a week or two ago so check with him to confirm.
Dale
Dale
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Wood workers emporium has a swivel head Vic.
They don't show the 240 on their web site.
Christian the owner deals with Vicmarc a lot. Anyone interest in buying a 240 should give him a call.
VL175 14x39 Variable Speed Swivel Head Lathe.
http://www.woodworkersemporium.com/Manufacturer/Vicmarc/Vicmarc_Wood_lathes/Vicmarc_V00483
Al
They don't show the 240 on their web site.
Christian the owner deals with Vicmarc a lot. Anyone interest in buying a 240 should give him a call.
VL175 14x39 Variable Speed Swivel Head Lathe.
http://www.woodworkersemporium.com/Manufacturer/Vicmarc/Vicmarc_Wood_lathes/Vicmarc_V00483
Al
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Dale you posted while I was.
Do you think he might have it at the Symposium?
Woodworkers emporium seems to be the only company that deals enough with Vicmarc to loan lathes for the demo rooms.
Al
I suspect that this rotating head design came from the VL600 prototypes Vic made with a grant from the Australian government. Although the bed rotated on the VL600, the concept looks similar for the rotating headstock VL240.
Vicmarc have been making the VL175, a lathe with a rotating head, for a long time. And in fact the 240 is in the same manual page of the 175. By the way, the number indicates the distance from the ways to the center of the spindle in mm.
http://www.vicmarc.com/downloads/Lathe Owners Manual Dec 2013.pdf
I don't know Al.
Vl240
I am hoping to receive my shipment of VL240 before the Phoenix symposium, it will be tight depending on customs. The VL240 is more like the VL175 with a very strong platform for the swivel head with a tapered pin to assure perfect realignment.
I spoke to Glenn Lucas and he reported he had used it in Germany and was very happy with the performance. I think it will be attractive to turners happy with a 20" swing and the possibility of reorienting the head as to not lean over.
I am hoping to receive my shipment of VL240 before the Phoenix symposium, it will be tight depending on customs. The VL240 is more like the VL175 with a very strong platform for the swivel head with a tapered pin to assure perfect realignment.
I spoke to Glenn Lucas and he reported he had used it in Germany and was very happy with the performance. I think it will be attractive to turners happy with a 20" swing and the possibility of reorienting the head as to not lean over.
As far as I know its definitely heading over your way, I gather it has been designed with an eye for the US market and you will probably see more of it than us down here. Hopefully it will be at the Sydney Wood-show this coming June.
Thanks, Hughie......definitely good to hear. I'm very interested in more information on this lathe. Vicmarc never did return my email.
To my way of thinking, a swivel head would be better than a sliding head, specifically because the bed can still be used as a steady point. A sliding head will only have the bed parallel to the spindle, and at the point where the bed is out of the way, it's not as useful as a steady point at varying degrees of offset to the spindle. Of course, I don't know about any of this......all theory at this point.
dbonertz, you be sure to let us on the forum know when you receive your VL240. I'm hoping we can see lots of photos and your impressions/comments.
.
I am pretty sure that Woodworkers Emporium is in the vendor area in Phoenix. I will check it out if so. Thus far, I have not been impressed with swivel/pivoting head lathes. The sliding headstock seems more simple. I have never had a chance to play on one of the Vicmark lathes.
robo hippy
robo hippy
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Wood workers emporium is a major supporter of AAW.
They will be in the trade show at the symposium.
They are also loaning us a lathe for a demo room.
Christian has been quite generous to the AAW.
Vic Marc's is gaining in "popularity" as a requested lathe by our demonstrators.
I suspect only a very small number of turners are going to see the advantage of a swivel headstock......and, it's certainly true that, from an engineering/manufacturing point of view, there is a lot of extra effort to bring this concept to reality......a sliding headstock is certainly more simple to design and manufacture. So, if there were no actual advantage, (or in my case, a perceived advantage) then why would a manufacturer go to all this effort to produce it? Since Vicmarc already has had a swivel head lathe on the market, I suspect they have input from those turners who use them, which influenced their decision to make a bigger swivel headstock lathe. The new VL240 isn't yet on the US market, and it seems they already have competition from another manufacturer, Rikon. Is it that there is a real advantage to this.......or, is it nothing more than a response to a demand created by an ill-perceived advantage? I tend to think the former.
Since my very beginnings as a woodturner, I've always had long bed lathes, but my main effort has always been bowls and platters. I've learned that bracing my hips and body against the lathe is a major advantage in some very critical cuts. The problem is leaning over too much, especially for bowls with inward slanting walls that require very refined cuts. (not like hollow-forms, where the interior surface preparation doesn't need to be as refined as a more visual surface does) Leaning over the lathe a certain amount is an advantage, but leaning over too far is a major disadvantage. In the past, I've learned to walk around to the back side of the lathe for those cuts that required me to lean too much, but from the other side, the benefits of steadying hips/body is not as good unless you reverse the rotation of the lathe and work left handed.
The solution for me, and possibly a few other turners is a.......swivel headstock.
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Odie: as you point out - the whole purpose of either sliding or swiveling headstock is to allow you to position yourself directly in front of the workpiece. You're essentially getting the bed out of your way. It seems to me that sliding headstocks have the advantage of using the same basic hardware configuration for the banjo and toolrest, and more consistent alignment of the centers; everything just moves to the end of the bed. If you need the tailstock, it's still an option.
Rotating heads need an alternate arrangement to get the toolrest in position relative to the workpiece - attachments or more complex mechanisms that allow the toolrest to reach the new position. As much as I like a well engineered complex mechanism, simple methods of solving simple problems always seems to work better for me in the long run.
I'm on my second sliding head lathe, having started out with a rotating head model. I use the feature a lot and appreciate the simplicity of just sliding everything where I want it.
I think it was Dale Bonertz who stated some thing like the advantage of the fixed headstock over the sliding headstock is that it is far more secure/less vibration because of how it is attached to the lathe bed. I think that this is possible, but haven't played around with it yet. My PM3520A had a small pressure plate on the bottom, and it was cast metal. They did abandon that one (mine broke while coring some black locust) and replaced it with a metal plate. The pressure plate on my Beauty runs the length of the headstock, and has 2 bolt mounts. The pressure plate on my Liberty has a round pressure plate. More experimentation required...
robo hippy
robo hippy
Hi JeffSmith......
Just to correct your misconception of what I wrote......the advantage of a swivel headstock lathe isn't to position yourself directly in front of the workpiece. The advantage is to place the bedways in a position that allows it to still be a steady point for your body, in varying degrees. With the sliding headstock, the spindle is always parallel to the bedways, therefore not as versatile for the purpose I mentioned.
If you need to use the tailstock, then leaning on the lathe isn't a requirement anyway, and unless there is something that I am not considering, there is no reason to not have the headstock positioned parallel to the bedways, when using the tailstock. (Of course, the alternative isn't possible anyway, but if it were, and there was a good reason to do it, then it would be a major conundrum.)
I'll reemphasize that IMO, there will only be a very small number of turners who will see this as a great advantage, and it doesn't mean that those who have, or did have a swivel headstock, will be able to realize this. It's a matter of applying technique to the mechanics of the configuration, not applying mechanics of the configuration to the technique.
I have wondered about the banjo, and how it will accommodate the swivel headstock. On the back side of a turning, it isn't going to work. On the front side, it's very likely going to need some additional reach. Not sure, at this point, whether this is going to be an issue, but without making the banjo a few inches longer, it seems like it could be an issue for turning maximum diameters. (max for VL240 is 19 1/4")
Whether there will be enough turners who will, or can see any advantage to a swivel headstock to make it a successful venture, remains a gamble on the part of Vicmarc. To spend $5000+ on a 19" swing lathe will mean that the swivel headstock is the ONLY reason for justifying the expense. To my thinking, it very well could justify the expense for my woodturning, but I also will take into consideration that I have been able to do everything I need to do on my long bed lathe, with some inconveniences that can be overcome. A sliding headstock, for my purposes, does seem to have some built-in disadvantages for what I intend to do with it......
ooc
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One obvious advantage of the swivel head is space.
If you are going to turn off the end of a sliding head stock you should have at least 4 feet of space on the end of the lathe and 6 feet is better.
With the pivoting headstock you stand in the same general area as you would with the headstock parallel to the ways.
I personally am not a fan of moving headstocks. I also find that the sliding headstock lathes I have used like Robust and Powermatic are fine machines and when properly locked the headstocks don't move and they line up well.
Al
If you are going to turn off the end of a sliding head stock you should have at least 4 feet of space on the end of the lathe and 6 feet is better.
With the pivoting headstock you stand in the same general area as you would with the headstock parallel to the ways.
I personally am not a fan of moving headstocks. I also find that the sliding headstock lathes I have used like Robust and Powermatic are fine machines and when properly locked the headstocks don't move and they line up well.
Al
odie; said:
certainly one of the options is to use the outboard attachment. I own one and used it with satisfaction. It is very stable, no problems with stability. You can go on the Vicmarc group and see a few pictures I posted.
Hello Sergio.......
If I have to put on, and take off the outboard attachment, I'm certain this would be the deal killer for me. 🙁
The outboard attachment is right where I need to be for working on the back side of a turning. There isn't anything I can't do with my long bed Woodfast, but if I'm paying $5000 to trade one set of inconveniences for another........well, I'm sure you get the point!
I'd like to see your group's photos....got a link?
BTW: My intent is to not ever swing the headstock any more than about 20° to 30°, or so. This is all I need to accommodate my style, so that I don't have to deal with the occasional need to address certain cuts from the opposite side.
ooc
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The banjo set up is another problem with the swivel head lathes. I can remember a Jet model years back, 14 inch lathe, reeves drive, and pivoting headstock. They had an extension for the tool rest on the banjo. You turn the lathe on, and it would start to bounce without any tool on it. I think most should have a floor mount/connected type support for the tool rests. Mounting bowl coring systems on them could be a problem, unless you have the McNaughton.
robo hippy
robo hippy
Odie, I do not see the pictures on the Vicmarc group on this forum I posted so I will post them attached to this replay. The attachment is permanent, until you decide to remove it of course, and has a post that goes to the floor so it is really sturdy (just to answer to Robo objection, by the way, Robo, comparing a Jet with a Vicmarc is really ridiculous). If the post is attached on the right side rather that on the left like in my case I believe it can pivot all around the front side of the lathe facing the pivoting head of the VL 240. I have it attached to my VL300 and since it does not interfere with anything I do so I do not have any reason to remove it. Double check with Christian at Woodworkers emporium.
Attachments
Sergio,
I was not trying to compare the Jet to the Vicmark, and I am aware of how far apart the stamped metal frame is compared to the Vicmark. Probably as much difference between the Jet and my Robust. Jet only had that one for a few months. The set up on your Vic is very sturdy. I have also seen the ones for the VB36. Again, very sturdy. That model of Jet was the first swivel head lathe I saw. I am not sure if the Nova was out then or not. They had an extension that also was not heavy duty. All have learned and beefed things up.
robo hippy
I was not trying to compare the Jet to the Vicmark, and I am aware of how far apart the stamped metal frame is compared to the Vicmark. Probably as much difference between the Jet and my Robust. Jet only had that one for a few months. The set up on your Vic is very sturdy. I have also seen the ones for the VB36. Again, very sturdy. That model of Jet was the first swivel head lathe I saw. I am not sure if the Nova was out then or not. They had an extension that also was not heavy duty. All have learned and beefed things up.
robo hippy