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Vicmarc Quality?

Tom Albrecht

Tom Albrecht

Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
1,206
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Location
Evanston, IL USA
I was recently disappointed in my purchase of a set of Vicmarc Long Nose extended jaws. Previously I had always been impressed with the quality and heft of their chucks-- my first four jaw chuck purchase a long time ago was the original un-numbered tommy bar version which still moves silky smooth.
So I mounted my new jaws and the alignment was terrible. The two photos here show the gaps, but what they don't show was the misfit surfaces between the tops of the jaws and along the sides.
While waiting for Craft Supplies to return my call I removed the jaws and set them on my flat table saw surface to see if I could figure out the problem. It was really simple when I rearranged the jaws out of sequence. Instead of following the stamped 1-2-3-4, they fit fine when going with 1-3-2-4.
jaws 2 - 1.jpg jaws 1 - 1.jpg
 
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So to quote them man next to the man in the mirrored Aviators: "What we have here is a failure to communicate." They should send you a properly numbered set.
 
Raul, perhaps he got the Cool Hand Luke set? 🙂

I do wonder how that could get by their QC. I was just about to pull the trigger on a set of those very jaws. Think I might wait a bit and see how it comes out for you, Tom. Would you update us on the result?
 
Mark Hepburn said:
Raul, perhaps he got the Cool Hand Luke set? 🙂

I do wonder how that could get by their QC. I was just about to pull the trigger on a set of those very jaws. Think I might wait a bit and see how it comes out for you, Tom. Would you update us on the result?
Click to expand...

Cool Hand Luke set?-- Don't get that one.

I can update you now. As I said, rearranged they mesh together just fine and as they should have from the factory. And I tried them out last night and they work just fine. I'll just engrave new numbers in the proper sequence.
If you do order them, I'd be curious if yours are numbered properly, let us know.
 
This is a result of Common Core mathematics. QC? You would cringe at some of the things I have seen and heard regarding manufacturing and QC over the last 53 years.
 
Tom Albrecht said:
Cool Hand Luke set?-- Don't get that one.

I can update you now. As I said, rearranged they mesh together just fine and as they should have from the factory. And I tried them out last night and they work just fine. I'll just engrave new numbers in the proper sequence.
If you do order them, I'd be curious if yours are numbered properly, let us know.
Click to expand...

Tom,

The "Failure to communicate" Raul was referring to was a line from the movie. I think it was Strothers Martin who said it to Paul Newman before tossing him in the "cooler". Yeah, a dumb reference.

Which Vicmarc model did you order for? Reason I ask is, I have a 120 with some jaw sets, but was thinking about getting a 100 and a set of Long Nose extended jaws for it. If you have the 100, I was wondering how you like it?
 
I have lots of vicmarc jaws. What I always do with any chuck is to leave the jaws slightly loose. The close the jaws so they self align and then tighten the screws. don't know if that will solve your problem. I asked the Vicmarc guy years ago why they number the jaws since Oneway didn't. He said they don't need the numbers because they are all made exactly the same. They did it because people were used to it and felt it was needed. I know I swapped jaws around once to see and mine lined up every time. Of course that doesn't answer your question about todays quality.
 
Mark Hepburn said:
Tom,

The "Failure to communicate" Raul was referring to was a line from the movie. I think it was Strothers Martin who said it to Paul Newman before tossing him in the "cooler". Yeah, a dumb reference.

Which Vicmarc model did you order for? Reason I ask is, I have a 120 with some jaw sets, but was thinking about getting a 100 and a set of Long Nose extended jaws for it. If you have the 100, I was wondering how you like it?
Click to expand...

I have the early equivalent to the 120 and a 150. I would like to be able to get an extra set of jaw slides to name switches easier.
 
Tom, thanks.
 
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john lucas said:
... I asked the Vicmarc guy years ago why they number the jaws since Oneway didn't. He said they don't need the numbers because they are all made exactly the same. They did it because people were used to it and felt it was needed. I know I swapped jaws around once to see and mine lined up every time. Of course that doesn't answer your question about todays quality.
Click to expand...

That's not exactly the real reason. The jaws start off as a single piece of steel that is machined and then sawn into quarters. By numbering the sequence they stay in the correct order and provide the highest precision fit, but you could probably rotate them around on the chuck as long as they stayed in the same sequence. This is also why the perfect circle diameter is when there is a gap of roughly 2.5 mm by some not exactly precise measurements that I have made. 😀

FWIW, I think that they are for all practical purposes interchangeable, however, recently I did accidentally swapped the #2 and #3 jaws of the standard jaws that come with the Vicmarc 120 and noticed right away that something wasn't quite precise. Everything was fine when I corrected my error. We're talking about grabbing wood after all, a non-homogeneous compressible medium and then worrying about thousandths of an inch as if we were talking about machining metal.

The Oneway jaws are all exactly the same and because of their complex geometry, I suspect they might be sand cast ductile iron. Since I actually have inadvertently turned the jaws when working too close to them, I do know that they are soft enough to turn without damaging a bowl gouge ... although it did cause a bit of a racket and made me say discouraging words seldom heard out here on the range. This meant that I had to re-face the tops of the jaws which meant more turning, but using a Trent Bosch hollowing scraper rather than a bowl gouge this time. My modified shorter jaws work great in compression ... not so good in expansion. 😀
 
Tom Albrecht said:
I was recently disappointed in my purchase of a set of Vicmarc Long Nose extended jaws. Previously I had always been impressed with the quality and heft of their chucks-- my first four jaw chuck purchase a long time ago was the original un-numbered tommy bar version which still moves silky smooth.
So I mounted my new jaws and the alignment was terrible. The two photos here show the gaps, but what they don't show was the misfit surfaces between the tops of the jaws and along the sides.
While waiting for Craft Supplies to return my call I removed the jaws and set them on my flat table saw surface to see if I could figure out the problem. It was really simple when I rearranged the jaws out of sequence. Instead of following the stamped 1-2-3-4, they fit fine when going with 1-3-2-4.
View attachment 21360 View attachment 21361
Click to expand...

Tom, I have had my VM-100 for ~20 years and shortly after I got it I ordered the long-nose jaws for it and was very happy with the performance of the set. I went to China to teach turning last month and was asked to bring two sets of the same jaws to be used on their VM-100s because they are not available there. Much to my dismay, I found out Vicmarc had redesigned their long-nose jaws such that they will not closed down to 3/8" diameter as the old ones would. I think I understand the economics of the new design, being able to sell you two sets of jaws that would do the job a single set of old jaws could do. I instead bought two sets of jaws with nearly identical design as the old ones from chucksplus.com (for BD 375). They worked perfectly! If anyone is interested in these jaws make sure you ask for a set of screws. The screws are same size as the VM but the head is designed slightly different and they fit their own jaws better. As with all the Bulldog chuck jaws they are plated with some sort of alloy that is gold in color and very corrosion resistant which is a plus when you work with wood like mesquite.
 

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Andy, I see that the jaws are numbered. Is the fit any different if they are installed out of sequence?

And, I like your diplomatic explanation of the benefit of buying two sets of jaws when one would do the trick.
 
Bill Boehme said:
That's not exactly the real reason. The jaws start off as a single piece of steel that is machined and then sawn into quarters. By numbering the sequence they stay in the correct order and provide the highest precision fit, but you could probably rotate them around on the chuck as long as they stayed in the same sequence. This is also why the perfect circle diameter is when there is a gap of roughly 2.5 mm by some not exactly precise measurements that I have made. 😀
😀
Click to expand...
The gap is the width of the cutting saw. If the cuts are perfectly centered, numbering doesn't matter. If not, even drastically off-center, placing the jaws in proper sequence ensures the jaws are still centered in the body.

Vicmarc's QC lapse isn't a fatal error, and Tom's newly engraved numbers should work fine.
 
Bill Boehme said:
Andy, I see that the jaws are numbered. Is the fit any different if they are installed out of sequence?

And, I like your diplomatic explanation of the benefit of buying two sets of jaws when one would do the trick.
Click to expand...

Bill, we were very busy while I was in China. I didn't have any reason or time to fool with switching the jaws. I am glad you think my explanation is diplomatic but I am not sure Vic would feel the same. 😉
 
Andy I also have the older extended jaws and was dissappointed whey they changed them to that sort of square opening. I wanted a second set.
 
Bill Boehme said:
That's not exactly the real reason. The jaws start off as a single piece of steel that is machined and then sawn into quarters. By numbering the sequence they stay in the correct order and provide the highest precision fit, but you could probably rotate them around on the chuck as long as they stayed in the same sequence. This is also why the perfect circle diameter is when there is a gap of roughly 2.5 mm by some not exactly precise measurements that I have made. 😀

FWIW, I think that they are for all practical purposes interchangeable, however, recently I did accidentally swapped the #2 and #3 jaws of the standard jaws that come with the Vicmarc 120 and noticed right away that something wasn't quite precise. Everything was fine when I corrected my error. We're talking about grabbing wood after all, a non-homogeneous compressible medium and then worrying about thousandths of an inch as if we were talking about machining metal.

The Oneway jaws are all exactly the same and because of their complex geometry, I suspect they might be sand cast ductile iron. Since I actually have inadvertently turned the jaws when working too close to them, I do know that they are soft enough to turn without damaging a bowl gouge ... although it did cause a bit of a racket and made me say discouraging words seldom heard out here on the range. This meant that I had to re-face the tops of the jaws which meant more turning, but using a Trent Bosch hollowing scraper rather than a bowl gouge this time. My modified shorter jaws work great in compression ... not so good in expansion. 😀
Click to expand...

FYI Bill, my gap and misalignment was way more than "thousandths of an inch" when installed in numbered sequence, and barely noticeable when I finished with fiddling.
 
Joe Greiner said:
The gap is the width of the cutting saw. If the cuts are perfectly centered, numbering doesn't matter. If not, even drastically off-center, placing the jaws in proper sequence ensures the jaws are still centered in the body.

Vicmarc's QC lapse isn't a fatal error, and Tom's newly engraved numbers should work fine.
Click to expand...


And they do!
 
I have 2 VM 120 and 2 VM100 chucks. All seem fine with no jaw problems. I have been using one of the 120 chucks for about 18 years and it still works great. I was somewhat disappointed with the new design long jaws though. In addition the new chucks open in the opposite direction with the T handle wrench and are also numbered in the opposite direction. Other than that I am very happy with the chucks. Much better than the Nova.
 
pete marken said:
I have 2 VM 120 and 2 VM100 chucks. All seem fine with no jaw problems. I have been using one of the 120 chucks for about 18 years and it still works great. I was somewhat disappointed with the new design long jaws though. In addition the new chucks open in the opposite direction with the T handle wrench and are also numbered in the opposite direction. Other than that I am very happy with the chucks. Much better than the Nova.
Click to expand...

And before they changed the direction that the chuck key turned, the biggest complaint that I heard from other club members was the backwards rotation of the key. Now it follows the standard right hand rotation to tighten a screw.
 
Bill Boehme said:
And before they changed the direction that the chuck key turned, the biggest complaint that I heard from other club members was the backwards rotation of the key. Now it follows the standard right hand rotation to tighten a screw.
Click to expand...

Hmmm! I have had two Vicmarc's VM100s for years, one of them over 15. They have always been "right-handed", turning the chuck key clockwise to tighten the jaws. Turning the key counterclockwise opens the jaws for expansion chucking. I am not aware that they changed that design.
 
Mark Hepburn said:
The "Failure to communicate" Raul was referring to was a line from the movie. I think it was Strothers Martin who said it to Paul Newman before tossing him in the "cooler".
Click to expand...
In the interest of the absolute cinematic accuracy so essential to our friendly dialogue, the punishment for Luke was to spend a night in the "box."
 
The "cooler" was the term used in Hogan's Heroes. However, prior to that in The Great Escape, Steve McQueen, was called the "Cooler King" because of the number of times he was placed in solitary confinement. If you want to see a fascinating documentary on the real great escape, here is a YouTube link to a NOVA documentary in which the site was excavated and some of the surviving POWs who worked on the tunnels visited the site and assisted the archeologists during the excavation.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rkK99puR5dI
 
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