vertical curved surface inlay

[Ed_McDonnell]

I've got some abalone shell and I thought I might try a feature band on a vase. I want to do it on the side where it's essentially a vertical surface. If it was a flat horizontal surface (like the rim of a platter) it would be easy using epoxy. Glue the shell pieces in a groove and fill with epoxy. Won't work on a vertical surface.

I could add micro balloons, shell dust or something to the epoxy to thicken it to a putty that would stay in place on a vertical surface. But then it wouldn't be clear and the gluing / placement of the shell fragments would become a lot more fussy to avoid having them end up covered with an opague epoxy putty. Any further turning at that point would also expose my turning tools to the wrath of the shells. How bad would that be?

I could cut a groove on the side, fill it with putty and then press the shell fragments into place. Still have a problem of my tools getting beat up if I try to turn the shell band smooth. Also, would the shells be more likely to pop out in this approach?

I'm probably overthinking this. Is there some simple method I'm missing.

Ed

 

[Bill Boehme]

Interesting problem -- perhaps you could use quick-set epoxy -- wait a couple minutes before applying and then work like the devil to apply as much as possible before it sets up. Maybe it would work if you could slowly rotate the vase on the lathe using the handwheel and keep it going just fast enough to keep the epoxy from sagging too much. Since you want a clear epoxy layer, the quick-set epoxy may not be the right answer. For a mere $20M, you could get a trip to the ISS and not have to worry about gravity.

Bill

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

Bill - I wonder if your rotating application idea would work? I could glue the shell in place with the vase stationary. Then start the vase rotating and pour the epoxy. Too fast and I epoxy the shop. Too slow and the epoxy sags / bulges / whatever. The only problem I see is that any trapped air bubbles wouldn't rise to the surface and dissipate. They would effectively be trapped in place.

I guess that might also be a problem in the ISS with no gravity. How would you pour expoxy without gravity? Imagine globs of epoxy floating around the shop as you try and get the stuff to go where you want it.

Ed

 

[Barry Elder]

Vertical Surface Inlay

By placing the vase on the horizontal axis, mounting it on centers (or close to it), and using a slow turning motor, the groove can be filled with a liquid epoxy which nominally will be self-leveling.
The equipment can be found in your area at any custom fishing rod builder. Hopefully, he or she will be a friend and let you borrow their equipment, or, you can buy it through catalogs or over the internet if you plan on doing this very often.
Or, if you really wanted to spend a lot of money, you could buy all of my old equipment. I quit building custom rods when I finally realized that people didn't want to pay what it was worth! For a few hundred bucks you could have the capability of going into the custom rod building business! (Yust yoking!)

 

[john lucas]

No problem. OK maybe some problem but I'll explain. Buy some Clear Inlace from Woodcraft. You mix it and let it start to harden. Then you can push it into the crevice. You have to keep rotating the piece and pushing the inlace because it will try to flow but after a few minutes it will start to harden to the point that you can leave it alone. I've done this several times filling grooves. I'm not sure how well it will work when filling voids between the abalone. You might get bubbles.
Another way that I've used that I'm sure will work is to turn the piece but leave an upturned lip around the groove. Turning the groove inside the upturned lip takes a special homemade tool. It might be difficult to glue the abalone in also.
You could build up a Dam out of clay that would resemble my upturned lip, but you would need to seal the wood to keep the clay from staining that area and getting the clay off after the epoxy dries might be challenging. If it doesn't harden too much you could probably just turn it away. The upturned idea uses more epoxy but you can leave an epoxy raised band doing it this way.

 

[dkulze]

I'd go with turquois inlace with a bit of powdered shell in it. Dremel/sand the abalone pieces to fit loosely like a puzzle, firm up the inlace a touch then push the shells into it? Sand off the excess using a brass wire wheel on your dremel.

All I can think of beyond taking the time to really make the abalone pieces fit like a puzzle very tightly so as to need minimal if any filler.

Also, sand a piece of abalone then repolish it and see how it looks. If it looks good, your problem is solved. Just do it any way you want then sand and polish it.

Dietrich

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

Thanks for all the great ideas. Here's what I'm going to try:

1. Make an epoxy putty by thickening two-part epoxy with a complementary colored sawdust.

2. Fill part of the channel with the putty, keeping it about 1/32" below the rim.

3. Embed the shell pieces into the putty.

4. Repeat 1, 2 and 3 until done. The let the epoxy cure.

At this point the feature ring will be complete and approximately 1/32" below the surface of the vase. This is important since the shell can not be sanded or worked without losing its luster.

6. Cut a tight fitting ring from MDF that will serve as a dam over the feature ring. Glue it to the vase

7. Mix up the clear epoxy and pour it. If I shape the "dam" ring effectively I should minimize wasted epoxy. Still trying to decide if I should do one pour or multiple. If I cut the "dam" ring the way I'm envisioning it I'll be filling an area 1/16" wide by 1/4" deep. I'm leaning towards a single pour.

8. Turn away the "dam" ring and excess epoxy.

That's the plan anyway!! I'll report on results.

Ed

 

[Ed Heuslein]

Howdy Ed: I think you're making this entirely too complicated. I've done many inlays - turquoise/lapis/abalone/etc. as media, on sides, tops, and in betweens.
Make your groove however you want. Some prefer an inside dovetail, but I haven't found that to be too necessary. With the piece on the lathe so you have your groove level at the top, put in a little of your media. Use a drop of thin CA to set it. This now becomes a dam. Turn the piece a little so you can put in another section - 1/2" to 1". Glue it. Keep this up 'till you're done. Sand it (I usually use P220g). You'll have voids. Fill them with finer media (shell) and more CA. For contrast, you can use black CA glue rather than the traditional clear. When you're done, just sand 'till your media is the luster you desire. I use Micro-Mesh. One last thing. Before you cut your groove, put a good coat of paste wax where the groove will go - for about an inch, at least, on each side of the groove. This will keep the CA from bleeding into the wood along side the media. One last thing. If you can't get your groove level at the top, take it off the lathe and put it between a couple socks filled with sand (sand bags) and you can make it any position you want. I keep thinking of other tips. When you put your finish on, if it's oil based or a varnish or any yellowing finish, carefully put it around your inlay. Nothing uglier than beautiful turquoise or abalone that has a yellow finish on it after while. I use a lot of water-based lacquer to avoid this problem. Good Luck. Ed

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

Thanks Ed - Less complicated is good!!

You use thin CA. Wouldn't the thick or medium work better? At least for initial placement of the larger pieces. I could see thin being a good choice for packing the finer media into voids.

I assume you don't use accelerator to avoid that "frosty" look you sometimes get with accelerated CA.

I hadn't thought about the yellowing effect of a finish on the shell. I was planning on starting with an oil to hightlight the grain followed by wiping poly. I suppose I could still use the oil before applying the shell, but I've never tried a water based film on top of oil. Should work once the oil is dry. I'll have to experiment with that.

I'm going to have to try sanding shell again. I didn't get good results when I played around with it last night.

I've got a lot to think about here. Thanks

Ed

 

[Brian Hahn]

Clear epoxy "putty"

Another way to thicken epoxy is to mix only half the hardener with the resin and let the mixture thicken or gel. Then mix in the rest of the hardener. The fresh hardener will make the mixture more fluid again, but not runny.

Not an original idea -- I found it in the System-3 epoxy book (available for free download from their web site).

 

[Richard Baker]

Item 6

Ed,
On item 6, if I understand it correctly, tape would be a bit easier than turning a ring from mdf. I use it as a dam when filling worm holes in mesquite with epoxy. After set-up, peel off the tape and sand/finish/buff/whatever, as needed.

 

[Bill Boehme]

7. ..... If I shape the "dam" ring effectively I should minimize wasted epoxy. ..... If I cut the "dam" ring the way I'm envisioning it I'll be filling an area 1/16" wide by 1/4" deep.

8. Turn away the "dam" ring and excess epoxy.

Hey, let's keep it clean 😀.

I still like the ISS idea. If the rest of the crew doesn't make you walk the plank or keel-haul you first, you might be able to develop a successful method to fill the "dang" ring.

Bill

 

[Ed Heuslein]

Howdy Ed:

I use thin CA because I want it to soak down into the wood. That way, it doesn't fill in the voids as you can do that later with a smaller sized media. It looks much better.

Correct, no accelerator. The thin dries pretty fast anyway.

I use pure Tung oil (darkens least of the common oils). I put it on using a Q-tip to get it up to the media. Just get close as it will bleed the last 100th of an inch. I only use one coat as it is only needed to pop the grain. Let it dry for a couple weeks. Then I apply the water based lacquer (Resisthane from Highland Woodworking is what I use). I only use gloss WB lacquer as my Micro-mesh treatment will give me the final sheen I want for that particular piece. I use as many coats as necessary then let the last coat dry for a couple days. Then I use Micro-mesh starting with 2400g to get the final sheen - typically 6000g.

One last thing. If you haven't used Micro-mesh before, be aware that every single defect - scratch mark, tear-out, etc. will show. It leaves a beautiful finish, but you must prepare your bare wood to perfection. You'll like the results.

If you have any questions, feel free to email me at
heuslein(nospam)@earthlink.net.

I hope all this makes sense.

Ed

 

[Norm Smith]

Hi Ed,
I fill large voids in vessels all the time using 5 minute epoxy and stone with no problem. I sometimes do it on the lathe. The epoxy hardens very quickly so you can keep pushing it into the opening until it hardens. I always have to refill voins in it but that doesnt take long. You also can use clear inlace but I just buy fiberglass resin at 1/2 the price. It seems to be the same thing.
Norm