Versaflo - what to buy

[Ricc Havens]

I was going through some of the older threads on respirators. I see lots of different configurations between the different forums threads on what you and Bill have, But, I'm trying to consolidate all the different helmet models, blower units, filters, batteries, chargers, etc down to just one or two systems so I can start watching Ebay for the necessary parts.

My budget is limited due to disability income so I have to be frugal when possible. What specific configuration and parts did you end up buying off Ebay?

I see the helmet was the M407 and you mentioned a BreatheEasy blower. But, which blower?

Which filters?

Do you wear the blower on a belt or vest?

One of the foum discussions I was reading was from 2019. https://aawforum.org/community/index.php?threads/3m-respirators-what-parts-to-look-for.15095/ Since it's been a couple years from that forum discussion is there any changes or other things you recommend?

Thanks
Ricc

 

[Ric Williams]

FWIW, I found this chart from 3M very helpful:
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media...d-air-purifying-respirator-systems-matrix.pdf

I bought my system a piece at a time on ebay and saved significant money, but I figured out my options ahead of time and waited for the best deals.
Here's what I'm getting:
TR-307N blower assembly, includes blower, filter, battery & charger
M-307 helmet
BT-30 hose
M-928 peel off visor covers

To my knowledge (that's not saying much), there's only one filter made for the TR-300 series and that's the particulate filter. To filter anything like gases and vapors you have to move up to the TR600 or TR-800 series and of course, they're more expensive.

I didn't realize it until I got the M-307 helmet, but one advantage of the M-407 helmet (once you remove the shroud and replace it with the face seal from the 307) is that the 407 has a lower stationary frame that the face seal attaches to, so when you raise the visor, the face seal stays in place. With the 307, when you raise the visor, the face seal goes up with it and can snag your glasses, then when you lower the visor, you have to put the face seal back over your face. It's really just a convenience issue, so it'll just be a matter of getting used to an extra step. Just the fact that I can raise the visor at all is a big improvement over what I've been using.

I bought the TR-300 knowing that it's been replaced in their line by the TR-300+, which has a couple of improvements, but it was a killer deal, so I can live with one fan speed instead of two.

HTH,
Ric (really)

 

[Roger Wiegand]

I just received (today!) the 3M™ Versaflo™ Heavy Industry PAPR Kit TR-300N+ HIK 1 which sells for $1100 with free shipping to replace my aging and somewhat creaky Racal Airmate 3 that I bought used 25 years ago. It has served spectacularly well all that time The website lists all the kit components. It contained everything I wanted and a couple of small items I didn't really need (a heat-resistant tube cover?). I'm sure I could have pieced together something cheaper but the hassle wasn't worth it for me.

I haven't really used it yet, but it seems like it will meet all of my needs very nicely.

I've always used a belt blower, but am considering the backpack-- the belt blocks access to the rear pockets in my smock.

 

[Ric Williams]

That's pretty much the kit I was trying for, but couldn't afford. I saved a bunch buying it piece by piece, but gave up any kind of warranty. I guess it's a calculated risk.

 

[Ricc Havens]

FWIW, I found this chart from 3M very helpful:
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media...d-air-purifying-respirator-systems-matrix.pdf

I bought my system a piece at a time on ebay and saved significant money, but I figured out my options ahead of time and waited for the best deals.
Here's what I'm getting:
TR-307N blower assembly, includes blower, filter, battery & charger
M-307 helmet
BT-30 hose
M-928 peel off visor covers

To my knowledge (that's not saying much), there's only one filter made for the TR-300 series and that's the particulate filter. To filter anything like gases and vapors you have to move up to the TR600 or TR-800 series and of course, they're more expensive.

I didn't realize it until I got the M-307 helmet, but one advantage of the M-407 helmet (once you remove the shroud and replace it with the face seal from the 307) is that the 407 has a lower stationary frame that the face seal attaches to, so when you raise the visor, the face seal stays in place. With the 307, when you raise the visor, the face seal goes up with it and can snag your glasses, then when you lower the visor, you have to put the face seal back over your face. It's really just a convenience issue, so it'll just be a matter of getting used to an extra step. Just the fact that I can raise the visor at all is a big improvement over what I've been using.

I bought the TR-300 knowing that it's been replaced in their line by the TR-300+, which has a couple of improvements, but it was a killer deal, so I can live with one fan speed instead of two.

HTH,
Ric (really)

Thanks Ric, I just checked ebay for the blower assembly kit. So far what I see is $650 then $299-$400 for the helmet. Not a big savings so far over the deal Roger got.

I'll have to keep checking and hope for a deal. Do you mind me asking what you paid for each of your items so I have a rough ball park on what kind of pricing to look for?

Thanks
Ricc

 

[Ricc Havens]

I just received (today!) the 3M™ Versaflo™ Heavy Industry PAPR Kit TR-300N+ HIK 1 which sells for $1100 with free shipping to replace my aging and somewhat creaky Racal Airmate 3 that I bought used 25 years ago. It has served spectacularly well all that time The website lists all the kit components. It contained everything I wanted and a couple of small items I didn't really need (a heat-resistant tube cover?). I'm sure I could have pieced together something cheaper but the hassle wasn't worth it for me.

I haven't really used it yet, but it seems like it will meet all of my needs very nicely.

I've always used a belt blower, but am considering the backpack-- the belt blocks access to the rear pockets in my smock.

Roger, that seems like a very good deal! the link you provided shows it to be over $1700. Can you share the source of the deal you got?

thanks
Ricc

 

[Glenn Lefley]

Roger, that seems like a very good deal! the link you provided shows it to be over $1700. Can you share the source of the deal you got?

thanks
Ricc

I see on Amazon for 1103.00
unfortunately with duty and exchange that’s 1,600 Canadian dollars.

 

[Ric Williams]

Thanks Ric, I just checked ebay for the blower assembly kit. So far what I see is $650 then $299-$400 for the helmet. Not a big savings so far over the deal Roger got.

I'll have to keep checking and hope for a deal. Do you mind me asking what you paid for each of your items so I have a rough ball park on what kind of pricing to look for?

Thanks
Ricc

I lucked out and found a brand new TR-307N kit, which is the blower, filter, high capacity battery and charger for $318 (!!!) Buy It Now, right after it was listed. Needless to say, I jumped on it right away.
I had been watching listings for helmets and hoses and a new open box M-307 for $270 shipped and a BT-30 hose for $50 shipped, and a pack of 10 M-928 peel off visor covers for $21.
All together it came in at $659. I've received everything but the TR-307N kit and it's somewhere between Seattle & Detroit.
If you can wait long enough, those kinds of deals pop up, but you have to be prepared to act fast in some cases.
Good hunting!

 

[Glenn Lefley]

A friend made a cheap version of this. He got a versa flo helmet off ebay for really cheap. And then hooked a line up to the helmet to a bathroom vent fan that he was drawing warm air from inside the house. Always knew what was for dinner and worked really well. No Batteries. That is the whole principle of the system blowing air through the helmet that is clean . His inlet was hanging from ceiling above his lathe. He added over time extra inlets over his table saw and bandsaw.

 

[Ric Williams]

One danger with a belt mounted system that may be a problem (especially for me), is the air intake is located right above the exit point of odorous digestive emissions.
I may have to pack my underwear with activated charcoal.

 

[Dave Bunge]

A friend made a cheap version of this. He got a versa flo helmet off ebay for really cheap. And then hooked a line up to the helmet to a bathroom vent fan that he was drawing warm air from inside the house.

I considered doing something like this. But my shop is in my basement, so if I brought in clean breathing air from outside the shop, dirty shop air would have to leave to keep things balanced. And I didn't want that dirty shop air getting into the rest of my house.

I guess this would work ok if the shop was sealed off from the house well, like being in a garage. Or if you had an exhaust fan from the shop to the outdoors to match the incoming air rate.

 

[Glenn Lefley]

I considered doing something like this. But my shop is in my basement, so if I brought in clean breathing air from outside the shop, dirty shop air would have to leave to keep things balanced. And I didn't want that dirty shop air getting into the rest of my house.

I guess this would work ok if the shop was sealed off from the house well, like being in a garage. Or if you had an exhaust fan from the shop to the outdoors to match the incoming air rate.

You could push the dirty shop air through a homemade hepa filter, or furnace filter box setup. Having a shop in a basement is hard as in winter dirty air is probably getting into cold air return and going through furnace and then next through house.

 

[Roger Wiegand]

Roger, that seems like a very good deal! the link you provided shows it to be over $1700. Can you share the source of the deal you got?

thanks
Ricc

Sure: https://www.industrialsafetyproducts.com/3m-tr-300n-hik-versaflo-heavy-duty-papr-kit/

About the same on Amazon as well.

 

[Ricc Havens]

For those of you who have this system, how have you found the comfort level after a couple hours of use? did it take a while to get used to the weight? did your neck hurt? I am a little concerned about the weight on my head and maybe getting neck aches or headaches.

 

[Dean Center]

The main advantage of the Versaflo is the battery/filter belt/vest pack which dramatically reduces the weight on your head.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Yes, the helmet/shield is very light. Some may have an issue wearing the belt, doesnt bother me. Get used to the hump on your backside (blower/filter) bumping into things, other than that it works great.

I have the M207 helmet ($220), TR-613N blower assm w/tube ($401 NIB on ebay). This blower has organic vapor cartridges available, and it is very nice for spraying. A spare battery, and a charger, were another ~ $450. The organic vapor cartridge takes a different filter cover, and the filters arent cheap but last a long time. Had my setup for 2 years, still using the original particulate and vapor cartridges. I remove the filters and vacuum/blow them out every so often.

 

[Roger Wiegand]

The M-307 helmet weighs a few ounces more than the Racal Airmate 3 helmet I've worn for years, but has much nicer suspension in the hard hat. I haven't had the chance to use it for more than a short period yet so can't tell you if that's enough to make a difference. I never really noticed the weight of the Airmate helmet; not all that much more than an ordinary hard hat.

 

[Ric Williams]

I've been using a JSP Powercap for about 1.5 years. It's OK, but I was never impressed with the construction quality, it's kinda front heavy and it turns out that it's not rated any higher than an N95 mask. I weighed it and the M-307 I just got and the M-307 is several ounces heavier, but it's really well balanced, especially with the hose attached, so I think my arthritic, rebuilt neck will be OK with it. The Versaflo stuff is WAY better quality, as it should be. I was hoping to try the whole system out when the Tr-300 arrived today, but the battery pack had sat for too long and the charge was too low, so the charger didn't recognize it. The seller was cool about it and is sending a known good battery and charger and a new filter, because that was past the expiration date too. New old stock didn't work out too well with the Versaflo and Li-Ion batteries, but I should be able to replace the cells in the dead one and end up with two battery packs and an extra charger for my trouble. Live & learn.

 

[Ricc Havens]

I've been using a JSP Powercap for about 1.5 years. It's OK, but I was never impressed with the construction quality, it's kinda front heavy and it turns out that it's not rated any higher than an N95 mask. I weighed it and the M-307 I just got and the M-307 is several ounces heavier, but it's really well balanced, especially with the hose attached, so I think my arthritic, rebuilt neck will be OK with it. The Versaflo stuff is WAY better quality, as it should be. I was hoping to try the whole system out when the Tr-300 arrived today, but the battery pack had sat for too long and the charge was too low, so the charger didn't recognize it. The seller was cool about it and is sending a known good battery and charger and a new filter, because that was past the expiration date too. New old stock didn't work out too well with the Versaflo and Li-Ion batteries, but I should be able to replace the cells in the dead one and end up with two battery packs and an extra charger for my trouble. Live & learn.

Ric, that's a bummer! I know a few others here on the forum have gotten older NIB units of ebay. But, those issues you are dealing with make me hesitant. I have had mixed results dealing with sellers and trying to get issues resolved.

 

[Ric Williams]

One danger with a belt mounted system that may be a problem (especially for me), is the air intake is located right above the exit point of odorous digestive emissions.
I may have to pack my underwear with activated charcoal.

I have, unfortunately, verified that this can indeed be a problem. Too bad they don't make VOC filters for the TR-300.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I’m more than happy with my Versaflow. Use it daily. @Bill Boehme and I have a long epic thread about us getting all the parts together. I won’t tell you how much I paid so you don’t feel bad, lol. Have to search for our old thread amd I’ll post a link here.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Here is the link to our thread. Man, what a deal I got!

https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/versaflo-m-407.13686/

 

[Ricc Havens]

Thanks

 

[Ric Williams]

I’m more than happy with my Versaflow. Use it daily. @Bill Boehme and I have a long epic thread about us getting all the parts together. I won’t tell you how much I paid so you don’t feel bad, lol. Have to search for our old thread amd I’ll post a link here.

Now that I've used it for a few sessions, I agree. I really like it. It definitely filters much better than the JSP Powercap and that's the bottom line. I was concerned about the extra weight of the M-307 helmet (my neck is a real mess), but it hasn't been much of a problem. Overall, I'm really happy I got it and the only thing I'd do differently would be getting an M-107 or 207 to lighten the load on my neck, but for people with a normal neck the M-307 will be fine.

 

[Ricc Havens]

I just got my new system in. Decided not to go the ebay route as used prices were still high and I had not seen any good deals over the last couple months.

after wearing mine the last few days I was a little disappointed of the weight of the M307 Helmet. My neck is sore after just a couple hours use. Hopefully I will get used to that.

 

[Steven Forrest]

I got a basic versaflow helmet (107 model I believe) with the expensive proprietary hose, but the helmet was surprisingly inexpensive. Connected it to CPAP tubing to PVC with an inline fan that intakes from another part of the garage (dust free). So the drawback is that I'm tethered, but it's a long enough leash that it's not that big a pain. (Tubing is routed on the ceiling, drops down, I keep a loop in my belt, all of it is behind me.) Good news is that the helmet is very light and balanced, more comfortable than the bionic, actually. And no filters, no batteries, very quiet, and continuous fresh air. I adapted Jerry Kermode's system - he has a big shop with multiple dropdowns, and he sources the air from inside his house, so it's warm in winter and cool in summer. Mine is a smaller shop, overall a more basic setup, but it works for me, and I feel like I am protecting my lungs and my face without compromising my neck/back or my visibility. I posted in more detail in an earlier thread - I'm sure you could search for it. Overall, I dropped a few hundred between the fan, the helmet, and the various tubing (all purchased new), but for the level of protection and convenience, I feel like it was a bargain.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I was going through some of the older threads on respirators. I see lots of different configurations between the different forums threads on what you and Bill have, But, I'm trying to consolidate all the different helmet models, blower units, filters, batteries, chargers, etc down to just one or two systems so I can start watching Ebay for the necessary parts.

My budget is limited due to disability income so I have to be frugal when possible. What specific configuration and parts did you end up buying off Ebay?

I see the helmet was the M407 and you mentioned a BreatheEasy blower. But, which blower?

Which filters?

Do you wear the blower on a belt or vest?

One of the foum discussions I was reading was from 2019. https://aawforum.org/community/index.php?threads/3m-respirators-what-parts-to-look-for.15095/ Since it's been a couple years from that forum discussion is there any changes or other things you recommend?

Thanks
Ricc

@Ricc Havens I don't know what your budget is, but I just ran across a special price for a complete Versaflo system for $1105 at EnviroSafety.com. It includes an M-307N+ helmet, heavy duty battery, charger, holster, turbo unit, HEPA particulate filter, belt, heavy duty hose, and flow tester. I would guess that is a savings of about $600 - $700 off the regular price. Here is a link: https://www.envirosafetyproducts.co...-purifying-respirator-heavy-industry-kit.html

If I didn't already have two PAPR systems I would jump on this like a chicken on a grasshopper.

 

[Clifton C]

I've been waffling on the versa flow for a few years. I had a Triton, it was so un-user friendly that eventually I stopped using it. Due to this thread, I pulled the trigger when Roger posted the link to Industrial Safety Products. A 15$ off coupon popped up, free shipping and it was $ 929.99 to the door. Haven't seen anything close to that price in the last year or so...
For regular users, is there any issues with dust getting between the protective overlay and the face shield?

 

[Bill Boehme]

I've been waffling on the versa flow for a few years. I had a Triton, it was so un-user friendly that eventually I stopped using it. Due to this thread, I pulled the trigger when Roger posted the link to Industrial Safety Products. A 15$ off coupon popped up, free shipping and it was $ 929.99 to the door. Haven't seen anything close to that price in the last year or so...
For regular users, is there any issues with dust getting between the protective overlay and the face shield?

I guess that I somehow missed Roger's post. It's an even better deal than what I found.

 

[Ricc Havens]

I ended up with the same package as Roger posted. BUt, I got it on Amazon. A couple weeks ago it was on sale for $985 but I see it's back up to $1100. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07K15G1F6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm a little disappointed with the weight of the helmet. I had tried the Airshiled Pro before and didn't like the weight as it made my neck sore. after a couple hours use. Other discussion threads on Versaflo or the Airshield said the weight was due to the batteries being in the Airshield helmet and that the Versaflo would be lighter since the battery pack is worn on the belt. Based on specs found online the Versaflo M307 in this package is lighter than the Trend Airshield Pro helmet but my neck muscles aren't convinced of that yet.

 

[Bill Boehme]

When your neck really hurts it is hard to do anything ... and even the weight of a baseball cap can be painful. I've had to live with neck pain and lower back pain most of my life. Acetaminophen helps if the pain isn't too bad and occasionally I take acetaminophen with codeine #3, but then I avoid working with any machinery. Raising the lathe can help with maintaining good posture.

 

[Ric Williams]

After using my system for a while now, my neck did start bothering me from the weight of the M-307 helmet, but my neck is part erector set and missing a couple of disks, so I wouldn't judge the comfort based on my experience. I bit the bullet and got an M-207 because it's 1/2 pound lighter, but still has the same rating for filtration. Used it for a few hours tonight and it was noticeably lighter, with no unusual neck pain. I'm hopeful things will stay that way, but time will tell. If it works out, I'll put my almost new M-307 in the for sale section of the marketplace.

 

[Bill Boehme]

After seeing Emiliano's positive results with modifying his Versaflo M-407 helmet, I just recently made the same mod which is removing the inner and outer shrouds and replacing them with a simple faceseal. I really like the change. I am bothered with mild neck pain, but the weight of the M-407 hasn't bothered me.

 

[Clifton C]

For regular users, is there any issues with dust getting between the protective overlay and the face shield?

I'm asking because I'm waffling between thinking the overlay will protect the visor, a good thing, and thinking dust, between the two might abrade the visor, a bad thing.

 

[Dean Center]

If you take up an exercise to improve the strength of a group of muscles, you would expect to be sore for the first few days, and it might take you 6 weeks to improve your strength to the point where your muscles can reasonably handle the exercise easily. The same thing would be true of a respiratory helmet--it will take your neck muscles a while to improve their strength and get more tolerant of the weight. Certainly, there are some folks with neck problems that are not going to do well with strengthening exercises, so this doesn't apply in every situation. Many folks, though, should start slow, gradually increase the amount of time they use their helmet and be patient to allow the muscles to get stronger.

 

[Ric Williams]

If you take up an exercise to improve the strength of a group of muscles, you would expect to be sore for the first few days, and it might take you 6 weeks to improve your strength to the point where your muscles can reasonably handle the exercise easily. The same thing would be true of a respiratory helmet--it will take your neck muscles a while to improve their strength and get more tolerant of the weight. Certainly, there are some folks with neck problems that are not going to do well with strengthening exercises, so this doesn't apply in every situation. Many folks, though, should start slow, gradually increase the amount of time they use their helmet and be patient to allow the muscles to get stronger.

Good advice for most people, but as we get older there are a lot of things in addition to muscle strength that come into play. The orthopedists I've seen say that in the older population, most people have collapsing disks and a surprising number have herniated disks, but may or may not have any symptoms based on whether the herniation is impinging on any nerves. For me, range of motion after having 3 vertebrae fused together is a much bigger issue and stretching exercises are much more beneficial for my long term comfort. I was told that above all else, I should never let a chiropractor, massage or physical therapist touch my neck unless I'm confident that they have training specific to treating fusion patients. Getting older ain't for sissies, and I hope that whomever coined the term "the Golden Years" learned the folly of their words in their own "golden years".

 

[Bill Boehme]

I'm asking because I'm waffling between thinking the overlay will protect the visor, a good thing, and thinking dust, between the two might abrade the visor, a bad thing.

That's certainly a valid concern. On my 3M Airstream respirator the overlays never seemed to lay perfectly flat against the face shield so wood dust getting between the overlay and face shield was a problem. (Little known, but important fact: Even though polycarbonate is far more impact-resistant than acrylic, acrylic is much more scratch-resistant than polycarbonate. Also, acrylic is slightly more transparent than polycarbonate although you probably can't see the difference.) I would say that based on memory, over the long term the dust caused a slight haziness to the polycarbonate. I tried putting painter's tape all around the perimeter of the overlay, but that has drawbacks such as narrowing the field of view and the tape adhesive drying out if left too long. One more thing about the overlays is that they aren't as transparent as I would like and there is a problem of annoying internal reflections between the polycarbonate and the overlay (which might be celluloid).

On the Versaflo, the overlays seem to fit better. Make sure that you store them where they can lay flat because you can't undo a wrinkle.

There's no perfect solution. While the overlays extend the life of the polycarbonate, there is a price to pay in loss of clarity. And, even if dust between the overlay and polycarbonate didn't abrade the surface of the polycarbonate, the dust just being there is a real nuisance. So, those are my thoughts, but they aren't very useful.

 

[Glenn Lefley]

I would only use the overlays when dealing with finishes. I’ve dealt with them for years as a painter. They create a distortion or fog when you put them on the mask. I just find them annoying for my field of view so don’t use them for dust , just finishes that can get on visor. After a few years you can replace the acrylic visor like buying a pair of lenses for your glasses.

Always remember, shampoo or shaving cream helps with fogging, and toothpaste removes shallow scratches from visors.

 

[David Bolson]

Just putting this here for anyone who may be checking out this thread for respirator options. I just purchased this on Ebay a week ago. I paid $479 for a "manufacturer refurbished" unit from this same seller. After doing a little Web research, it seemed like a good deal. I've now used it a few times and I think it works well. I've never used the Versaflo, so I can't compare. I can say that it feels very light, it's easy to use and I am not smelling any dust when I have it on. The only small negative is that the motor/fan does make a slight whining noise, but that's probably true on all of the PAPR's. Optrel's listed noise level is slightly less than the Versaflo's listed noise level.

David

 

[Mark Jundanian]

The eBay listing will eventually expire so for the record the reference is to the Optrel Clearmaxx PAPR System.

David, let us know your long term impressions. Is the lens rated for impact resistance?