VB 36 bowl lathe

[Gary Chapman]

I was browsing ebay last night to see a used VB 36 bowl lathe. I watched it till 12 and then went to bed but someone bought it for a steal. It is one heavy duty lathe and seems to be very well built. I would have loved to have an extra $5,000 on hand or I would have snatched it up.Has anyone had a chance to use one? Gary

 

[John Tisdale]

I have turned on one for a few minutes - without a doubt, it is the best made, best balanced, most precision lathe you can buy. Then again, how much does precision bring to your party?
I would highly recommend that anyone considering that expense spend a few hours on one before buying.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Have seen "mixed" reviews over the years that ranged from 'wonderful' to 'one-trick pony' to 'outdated and cumbersome' as well as several negative comments about the oil bearings. I looked at them when I was lathe shopping but decided against it because I wanted to turn more than bowls and the foot print, with the tubes and tailstock rig, would not have worked in my shop.

 

[hockenbery]

I turned on one a little bit and know a couple of folks that own them.
It works well I did not get really comfortable with it but that just ages time.
One of which has a custom made ways attached and crane over it to mount the long spindles.

If you plan to turn some really big stuff huge bowls or architectural pieces it is definitely worth consideration.

I think most folks would find a 2436 and the outboard table at least for pieces up to 30" diameter to be a better choice.
Especially if they do any turning between centers.

 

[Odie]

I have turned on one for a few minutes - without a doubt, it is the best made, best balanced, most precision lathe you can buy. Then again, how much does precision bring to your party?
I would highly recommend that anyone considering that expense spend a few hours on one before buying.

I wouldn't think the precision of a one piece fixed bearing is going to be meaningful in any way to a wood turner. Most ball and roller bearings have a very small run-out tolerance.....only a couple thousandths at worst. The reason for this is because it has many moving parts, and none of the balls/rollers will be exactly the same as they rotate in the race. We've purchased some precision roller bearings for machinery where I work. What makes them more precision than the average bearing, is each roller is measured with a micrometer and all the rollers have to be within a prescribed tolerance......I'm thinking it was only a few ten thousandths of an inch. Standard bearings have an allowable tolerance greater than that.

A fixed bearing will have near zero tolerance, so it will be more precision.....but to what advantage to a turner?

Maybe the real advantage of the VB lathe is for very large, heavy, out of balance turnings.....? That might make some sense when you consider the bearings, 2 1/2" spindle, and the heavy machine itself.

Wood is an unstable material, and internal stresses are causing warp as you remove material. It normally doesn't happen suddenly, but gradually as wood is removed. Sometimes this happens unnoticeably to the eye/feel, and other times it's very dramatic. This, when considered conceptually, seems to reduce any precision advantage the VB lathe had..........

ko

 

[Bill Boehme]

It's not the balls or rollers, but the tightness of the bearing. There are various degrees of play that are used depending on the application. Greater tightness is not necessarily better. Machines that operate at high speeds need to strike a balance between precision and radial play. A tight bearing means friction which means heat and lost power. The losses increase dramatically as the speed of the spindle increases. The tolerances of rolling elements is in millionths of an inch.

There are also many other things that get involved in bearing selection so it is not a simple or easy choice of just picking one because it has tighter tolerances.

 

[Odie]

It's not the balls or rollers, but the tightness of the bearing. There are various degrees of play that are used depending on the application. Greater tightness is not necessarily better. Machines that operate at high speeds need to strike a balance between precision and radial play. A tight bearing means friction which means heat and lost power. The losses increase dramatically as the speed of the spindle increases. The tolerances of rolling elements is in millionths of an inch.

There are also many other things that get involved in bearing selection so it is not a simple or easy choice of just picking one because it has tighter tolerances.

Well....yes it is, Bill.

If the tightness of the bearing comes into question, then the torque is not being applied to spec.

edit: On second thought, my comment applies to a cone type roller bearing, such as that I'm used to changing out on machinery where I work. For this application, there is a torque value for installation, and regular retorque values in a maintenance schedule to accommodate wear. We pay a premium for bearings that are more precision, and they are all cone type bearings with mic'd rollers. Their accuracy depends on a constant torque setting. For regular bearings that are simply press fit to a shaft....then you would be correct, as the play (or tightness) within the bearing itself would be whatever it was when assembled at the factory. As this type of bearing wears, there is nothing that can be done, except replace.

ko

 

[Paul M. Kaplowitz]

Vb36

I have owned a VB36 for 7 years and found it to be a wonderful piece of machinery. I have turned from 5" bowls to 40" bowls and everything in between. It is powerful, smooth and stable. I turn in excess of 300 bowls a year, most of them from 20 to 36". I'm not sure what the discussion of bearings is about. The shaft rides on a thin layer of oil supplied by 2 reservoirs on top of the housing and does have adjustable throw out bearings. I have used, over the 21 years I have been turning, many other type of lathes and I am very happy with this one.

 

[Steve Worcester]

I have owned a VB36 for 7 years and found it to be a wonderful piece of machinery. I have turned from 5" bowls to 40" bowls and everything in between. It is powerful, smooth and stable. I turn in excess of 300 bowls a year, most of them from 20 to 36". I'm not sure what the discussion of bearings is about. The shaft rides on a thin layer of oil supplied by 2 reservoirs on top of the housing and does have adjustable throw out bearings. I have used, over the 21 years I have been turning, many other type of lathes and I am very happy with this one.

Do you still have it, or since sold it?

for bowl turners, it looks like the VB36 is the holy grail lathe. I have access lately but haven't had a chance to call on it. I really want to try it.
i have turned on every high end lathe and really want to they it out. I look at it like a supercar. Would love to drive a McKlaren or Lambo but my daily is much less.
maybe we need to setup a venue for people to try lathes like you can take laps in super cars?

 

[Paul M. Kaplowitz]

Vb36

Dear Steve, I use it almost every day. If your going to be in Charleston, SC let me know and you can turn away.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Well....yes it is, Bill.

If the tightness of the bearing comes into question, then the torque is not being applied to spec.

edit: On second thought, my comment applies to a cone type roller bearing, such as that I'm used to changing out on machinery where I work.

ko

It sounds like you are talking about multi piece tapered roller bearings. That is the type where you determine the free play or preload depending on the need. The kinds that I mentioned are single piece assemblies that come with a built-in amount of free play or in some cases a preload and you select which one is the right one for the machine. The other option is that if you are a government (or have as much money as one) then you can order a custom design.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Bearings

I seem to remember the VB's use "plain bearings" with gravity fed oil lubrication; no moving parts except the spindle shaft. Never got to look under the hood though.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I seem to remember the VB's use "plain bearings" with gravity fed oil lubrication; no moving parts except the spindle shaft. Never got to look under the hood though.

Indeed it does use plain bearings. They run smoothly and almost never wear out if properly maintained. The "properly maintained" part is where people sometimes become lax. Oil, on the other hand, does wear out. The long hydrocarbon molecular "chains" that provide the film strength gradually break down into shorter chains under high pressure and shearing loads. The service is not nearly as bad as it is for an internal combustion engine where the oil is subjected to temperatures around 1000°F around valve stems and piston rings along with contamination from combustion blow-by gasses and metallic wear particles. Back in the old days there was also tetraethyl lead (TEL) that made the blow-by gasses extremely acidic. That is why motor oil lasts so much longer now with unleaded gas.

 

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

I've had mine for about 7-8 years - love the machine. But wish the capacity between centers was greater. I've turned segmented rings up to 4 feet in diameter. One big plus: it's quiet. Because there are no roller bearings, just the oil-flooded shelve, it's probably the most quiet lathe available.

 

[Hu Lowery]

Babbitt I assume

I assume the VB-36 uses Babbitt bearings. I think I read it used them but it has been a long time ago now. These are used in automobiles pretty much everywhere in the engine; main bearings, rod bearings, cam bearings. They are also used in some turbines over thirty feet long commonly used in power plants. These are old turbines that are close to a hundred years old, still in service although far smaller ones can be used now to generate just as much electricity. The bearings handle load, surface speed, and shock well. Keep the bearings oiled and I suspect the bearings will outlive several turners.

Mark has a VB-36 only about a hundred miles away from me. Been meaning to get down there and try it. Until then I toy with building a machine from scratch. I have been leaning towards Babbitt bearings that fit a big engine for spindle bearings just to keep cost down and keep things simple. Another thing, not difficult to pour your own Babbitt bearings if you need to. Always a plus when considering obsolescence of old equipment.

Biggest issue with the idea of building a lathe, with my typical overengineering I suspect an American Beauty might be the cheaper option! I am keeping an eye on Mark's VB-36 though. He probably wouldn't miss it is I slipped it in my lunch box when I was visiting. I'm thinking the Johnny Cash method.

Hu

 

[Bill Boehme]

What has happened to Mark. I was afraid that he got too close to the edge and fell off the world. I seem to recall that he is in Houma which is just about as close as one can get to the edge. 🙄

I'm pretty sure that the bearings in the VB36 are sintered bronze and not Babbitt. Check online and I think that you will find that Babbitt metal bearings are mainly for high load high temperature applications.

EDIT: When in doubt, read the manual

Important Lubrication Information
This lathe is extremely smooth running with the largest workpieces. This is achieved to a large extent by fitting cast iron sleeve bearings and phosphor bronze thrust washers. These bearings, unlike ball bearings, require regular maintenance. Keep the oil reservoirs topped up and grease the thrust washers at least once a month and once a week if working regularly between centres.

 

[Hu Lowery]

Could be . . .

What has happened to Mark. I was afraid that he got too close to the edge and fell off the world. I seem to recall that he is in Houma which is just about as close as one can get to the edge. 🙄

I'm pretty sure that the bearings in the VB36 are sintered bronze and not Babbitt. Check online and I think that you will find that Babbitt metal bearings are mainly for high load high temperature applications.

Bill,

Could be that the bearings are sintered bronze or other than Babbitt. I thought I read Babbitt somewhere awhile back, just a post in a thread and it could easily have been someone else's assumption even if I did read Babbitt. We know everything we read on the internet has to be right, right?🙄

I talk back and forth with Mark a little by e-mail. He has been very busy with other things and hasn't turned much wood best I know. Things seem to be going fine for him, just no time to play! I'd like to catch up with him and may make a point of it next month, we might be traveling the same neck of the woods on the same day. I have a piece of wood for him that is too big for me to turn and it would ruin the figure to cut it up. A massive pear root ball, far more than I expected to find when I started unearthing it! No strain for his VB-36 but my little lathe starts getting aches and pains when I just put that wood nearby!

Need to pick your mind before too long, I might get very serious about trying to build a lathe after the first of the year. Lots of big bearings for sale cheap on E-Bay and I can machine a spindle shaft. The motor and speed control, TBD, and the chassis is another question. Got three welders, just have to figure out how to use at least one of them.

Hu

 

[Tudor Joseph]

Vb36

Hi Gents,
Greetings from across the pond (i.e. Wales, UK)
I am a new member, so thought it was time to say hello. I am a retired Engineer, I enjoy woodturning but I love building stuff, mostly to do with woodworking and Caravanning which is our other hobby.
Bill is correct in that the bearings are high quality cast iron with bronze thrust washers. I don't own one by the way, but get to see them in exhibitions etc. and a chance to ask questions of the owners.
Hu, you might be interested to know that I have built (2) wood lathes, both using a cast iron pedestal grinder for the headstock, with thick walled steel box section and /or 4" x 2" channel section for the bed ways. I share your frustration about having too many welding sets and not having mastered even one of them!
Perhaps I will post some pics when I get the hang of it.

Kind regards

Tudor

 

[Odie]

Hi Gents,
Greetings from across the pond (i.e. Wales, UK)
I am a new member, so thought it was time to say hello. I am a retired Engineer, I enjoy woodturning but I love building stuff, mostly to do with woodworking and Caravanning which is our other hobby.
Bill is correct in that the bearings are high quality cast iron with bronze thrust washers. I don't own one by the way, but get to see them in exhibitions etc. and a chance to ask questions of the owners.
Hu, you might be interested to know that I have built (2) wood lathes, both using a cast iron pedestal grinder for the headstock, with thick walled steel box section and /or 4" x 2" channel section for the bed ways. I share your frustration about having too many welding sets and not having mastered even one of them!
Perhaps I will post some pics when I get the hang of it.

Kind regards

Tudor

Tudor Joseph........

Welcome, and looking forward to seeing photos of your homemade lathe(s).........

ko

 

[Bill Boehme]

Tudor Joseph, welcome to the AAW Forum. Thank you for clarifying the question about the VB36 lathe. I was disappointed to see that it is no longer being produced in the UK, but I am glad that the new owner in Germany saw the great value of this machine and decided to keep it going.

 

[Hu Lowery]

Looking forward to pictures too!

Hi Gents,
Greetings from across the pond (i.e. Wales, UK)
I am a new member, so thought it was time to say hello. I am a retired Engineer, I enjoy woodturning but I love building stuff, mostly to do with woodworking and Caravanning which is our other hobby.
Bill is correct in that the bearings are high quality cast iron with bronze thrust washers. I don't own one by the way, but get to see them in exhibitions etc. and a chance to ask questions of the owners.
Hu, you might be interested to know that I have built (2) wood lathes, both using a cast iron pedestal grinder for the headstock, with thick walled steel box section and /or 4" x 2" channel section for the bed ways. I share your frustration about having too many welding sets and not having mastered even one of them!
Perhaps I will post some pics when I get the hang of it.

Kind regards

Tudor

Thanks for the info. I'm looking forward to some pictures too. If you are like me you have to be careful or you get more wrapped up in building stuff to play with than using the toys after they are made! One thing floating around in my mind is using an old 3/4 or 1 ton full float truck hub and spindle as the spindle assembly. Adjustable bearing tension and massive enough for all but the most ambitious turnings, of course I could always start with a bigger spindle! I specialize in overengineering in the extreme.

Hu

 

[Tudor Joseph]

Pictures of homemade lathe(3)

Mainly for Hu, per request.
Pics of homemade lathes. PM me with your email address if you would like any more info.
Regards, Tudor

 

[John Tisdale]

QUESTION: Does the VB-36 and Union Graduate have a common heritage?

 

[Tudor Joseph]

VB36 and Union Graduate Herritage

Hi John,
I suppose the short answer is NO.
The Union Graduate was introduced in the late 1950's by the Harrison group who were already in the forefront with regard to metal turning lathes. It followed on from the Harrison Jubilee which was also of cast iron construction albeit lighter. They were pretty much "bombproof" and sold mainly to schools and colleges (hence the low spindle to floor height). Eventually they were taken over by other companies who maintained the "Graduate" badge. I believe a modified and upgraded version is marketed in the UK by Technology Supplies Ltd., who, until recently also sold the VB36 (perhaps you already knew this and it may have prompted your question!).
The VB36 was developed around the early 1990's by Nigel Voisey (now deceased) and Roger Buse (hence VB). The brief was to build a lathe UP to a standard and not DOWN to a price. Roger Buse was the MD of VB Manufacturing and Nigel was the designer, who had an engineering background and later became a woodworking journalist which afforded him the opportunity to test many lathes. He appeared to be critical of the then "top of the range" Graduate and relished the challenge of designing the VB36.
Some time ago the VB business was taken over by Technology Supplies who did not seem to carry out much on-going development, and about 18 months ago the business was acquired by Steinert in Germany who already build a range of heavy duty machines. A few weeks ago at a show, I talked to Roland Steinert the owner of the company. He told me that they had already made quite a few detailed improvements to the machine, so it seems to be in safe hands.

Regards Tudor