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Using Two Oneway Steady Rests (Bowls) at the same time

Joined
Dec 2, 2011
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It occured to me that possibly two Oneway Bowl Steady Rests can be used at the same time. One on each side of the lathe bed. Since the wheel housing revolves on a post, the wheels themselves could be positioned opposite each other.

I don't know how far apart the two wheels on a Oneway will open up via the scissor action. But if they open wide enough then perhaps two steady rests can do the job on bigger bowls or hollow forms.

It does not appear that using two Oneway's as described would encroach on the banjo movement. My guess is the limitation will be how far apart the two wheels on each Steady Rest can be adjusted.

If this can work, it would be a less expensive alternative to some of the heavy duty steady rests available.

Anyone have some thoughts about this?

Regards,
Doug Olsen
 
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Why two? The two wheels control the area where you cut pretty well if keep them close together. The tool works between where they contact, so you don't distort outward and dampen incoming vibration before the cut is made.
 
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I'm just wondering if two will behave like one single four wheeled large and expensive steady rest. But your comment makes good sense to me 🙂
 
3 wheel steady rest

Doug I use a Heavy Duty 3 wheel steady rest from Advanced Lathe Tools.
The main reason is I often turn 100 to 450 lb logs and the steady rest supports the weight of these logs while hollowing. I don't think you could expect the same support with the One way steady rest even using 2 of them. I don't believe the position of the wheels on the One Way would give the support required for large logs.
 
Hi Joe,

I agree, heavy logs would undoubtedly not be supported. My work does not approach 100 lbs, more like a max of 40 lbs. This weight may be OK, but I sure don't know at this point.

Anyone else ... please chime in. Thanks & Regards,

Doug Olsen
 
Doug,

I use the method you are describing. I put them into place before the piece getting to out of round. I don't find the need to have support on the top. The wheels spread far enough to do fairly large pieces (14" to 16" or so round) since the support is more for where you are cutting with the tool rather than supporting the weight of the piece. Having said that that is why I use the second one on the backside and a little underneath (bottom wheel around the five o'clock position) to help support the weight. I have not had any bad experience so far.

Dale
 
Hi Dale,

This is what I was hoping for, thanks for your input. I will opt for the two Oneway Bowl steady rests or build a four wheel from plans on this site. I'd rather not spend the time building, turning is more important to me so I'll probably opt for a pair of Oneways🙂. I appreciate your comments.

Regards,
Doug Olsen
 
Doug , i played around with that idea of two one-way steadies, but found that as MM stated one was plenty for the size of turnings i do
 

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I support with the tailstock until the very last and lightest. Highly recommend it as safe and sure when turning stock you can swing over the bed. If you're turning outboard or over the end, don't think any home built is going to help much. It would pretty much have to attach to the stand rather than the ways. If someone's tried it. they haven't put results anywhere I could find them.
 
Doug......

I contemplated using two sets of Oneway bowl steady wheels on a single mount, just as you are doing.......and, Charlie has done.

My decision was to bite the bullet, and get a full steady rest. I ended up special ordering a five station rest from Clark.....he advertises under the "spin doctor" name in the AAW magazine.

Now....here's the big question: Does more wheels work for eliminating vibration? It does, but to varying degrees. It depends on many things like species, thickness, shape, turning speed, degree of warp, distance from bowl rim to spindle, etc......

MM is correct that the wheels closest to the cutting action do the most good, but the wheels furthest from the cut also help, but to a lesser degree. For smaller and shallow bowls, I don't think it's worth the effort to use any more than the original two-wheel Oneway outfit. Some large, thin, and tall bowls do definitely benefit from wheels positioned around the circumference.....Not in every single case, but enough to make it worth while to find out.

This is my theory: I believe the vibration emanating from a cut is shaped something like a V, and resembles a wake behind a boat......it gets less intense the further away from the cut, but is still present around the entire circumference. I have no way of knowing how true that is, but I've found that difficult bowls do benefit from the full steady rest, whereas the Oneway bowl steady might do 90 percent of what the full steady rest will do.

Everything is going to boil down to what it's worth to you to get that last little bit of benefit from additional wheels. (I've added a photo of a bowl that I just don't think I could have done as thin as I did, without the Clark full steady rest. It was spalted, thin and fairly large and tall......everything that makes for difficult cutting without tearout and need to over-sand for a fine finish.) It's bowls like this one that makes the expense of having the two bowl rests worth it for me.......at this point, I don't consider how much these rests cost me, all I consider is the benefit of having them. It's like getting a quality lathe.......once you own it, the money you spent is no longer what is important to you! 😀

For my purposes, I don't bother using either of the bowl rests for roughing bowls, because the fineness of the cut is not as important as for final finish tool work. Final finish tool work is where I use the Oneway and Clark steady rests. The Oneway is used almost always, for all bowls. The Clark rest is only used occasionally. Those who regularly turn extra large and tall turnings, will probably have different requirements than I do.

Sometimes, the Oneway is used on the back side of the bowl when final tool finish is being done to the outside. Not always, but sometimes that works to better the cut, even though the wheels are on the opposite side.

I have no idea how well two Oneway bowl steadys on a single mount would work out. Maybe Charlie can tell you what problems there is, and what the min/max will be. My guess is the scissor action will only give you an inch or two in size adjustment........after that, you'll be unbolting the post and repositioning it........I suspect that would be a hassle. Regardless of that, I'd guess two Oneway bowl steadys would probably work about as well as a full circumference bowl steady.......just my guess.

Good luck in whatever you decide.......

ooc
 

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Maybe Charlie can tell you what problems there is,

mainly i found that the single one-way steady normally did fine, i did have a problem early on using the double one-way steady with green wood. the movement of the wood, if i went to lunch and came back after say an hour was a problem. i turn more hf than bowls, so i do few roughouts, but turn to finish. also cedar was a problem for me, i have heard that cedar should be turned thicker than other spieces, i had a lot of cracking issues when i got cedar thin, the way i solved it was to turn cherry 😀

the setup of a single one-way steady is much faster and easier than using the double
 
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"... wake behind a boat ..."

Roadway tires develop a standing wave behind the point of contact, which is essentially a flat spot analogous to the cutting action. The "wavelength" depends on the structure of the tire. And so would the similar phenomenon in a turned workpiece. Since the structure changes as the work progresses, I don't think you could find the optimum location of extra wheels, except by accident. Even then, the best location might subsequently become the worst location.😱
 
I simply built a 3 wheel steady. It didn't take any time at all and I got the wheels from used inline skates for next to nothing at Goodwill. I have far less than the cost of one Oneway steady and it really only took an afternoon to build it.
 
using the one-way steady it is easy to use calipers compared to the three wheel steadies, i never have used the lazers so i can not comment on them
 
.... resembles a wake behind a boat....

"... wake behind a boat ..."

Roadway tires develop a standing wave behind the point of contact, which is essentially a flat spot analogous to the cutting action. The "wavelength" depends on the structure of the tire. And so would the similar phenomenon in a turned workpiece. Since the structure changes as the work progresses, I don't think you could find the optimum location of extra wheels, except by accident. Even then, the best location might subsequently become the worst location.😱

I agree with Joe's assessment. Also, it gets a bit more complicated than the wake behind a boat because of nearby boundary conditions which lead to reflections and interference patterns (think of what happens when the wake from two boats cross or if close to shore). If I am turning something thin and it starts to howl, I normally keep a couple fingers against the piece trailing behind the cut. Don't try this on interrupted cuts or when turning something close to a natural edge. 🙂
 
I agree with Joe's assessment. Also, it gets a bit more complicated than the wake behind a boat because of nearby boundary conditions which lead to reflections and interference patterns (think of what happens when the wake from two boats cross or if close to shore). If I am turning something thin and it starts to howl, I normally keep a couple fingers against the piece trailing behind the cut. Don't try this on interrupted cuts or when turning something close to a natural edge. 🙂

Bill....

You and Joe could be right. Like I said, I'm not really sure what pattern the vibration might take.....but, does it matter? The vibration is what it is, and can be felt through the tool, and heard. Since it can be detected, it can be dealt with, and results evaluated.

Just a note of caution: If a thin wall bowl is "howling", you may want to reconsider putting your fingers against the bowl. If it cracks, and you have your fingers pressing on it, you will subject yourself to possible severe injury. If you are not using a bowl steady, may I suggest first reducing speed to a point where the "howling" is gone, and then using your fingers for support?

ooc
 
Thank you all for your helpful and educational (me for sure) comments. I decided on a Oneway Bowl Steady and bought ... just one 🙂

If I find a three or four wheel steady rest is necessary I'll probably make one since AAW member plans are available.

But today I had an experience I can't understand. Turning a very dry 10 inch cherry bowl down to 9 inches which was essentially getting it true. Thereafter as I refined the outside and turned out the inside it became very "out of true".
The bowl is at least 3/8 inches thick so I don't think "thinness" caused the problem. However, I am at a loss as to how it happened and will post a new thread about it.

Again, thanks to everyone for all of your help.
Regards,
Doug Olsen
 
Thank you all for your helpful and educational (me for sure) comments. I decided on a Oneway Bowl Steady and bought ... just one 🙂

If I find a three or four wheel steady rest is necessary I'll probably make one since AAW member plans are available.

But today I had an experience I can't understand. Turning a very dry 10 inch cherry bowl down to 9 inches which was essentially getting it true. Thereafter as I refined the outside and turned out the inside it became very "out of true".
The bowl is at least 3/8 inches thick so I don't think "thinness" caused the problem. However, I am at a loss as to how it happened and will post a new thread about it.

Again, thanks to everyone for all of your help.
Regards,
Doug Olsen

Doug.......

You are correct. "Thinness" may contribute to conditions leading to warping, but it isn't the only thing that matters........

Anytime you remove wood, you are altering the internal stresses in what's left. Most dry and stabilized woods will warp to some degree during final turning......some will not. The amount of warp may, or may not be enough to alter the "game plan" for that bowl.

When I detect a warp, my first thought is to reconsider any plans I may have had for detail work, as these things need a near perfect circular surface for them to look well executed and appealing to the eye.

ooc
 
... If a thin wall bowl is "howling", you may want to reconsider putting your fingers against the bowl....

Actually, it is more like "speaking" to me. If a turning actually began howling, I would stop immediately because something is about to break. I never apply any more pressure that lightly brushing the wood. Any more pressure than that is liable to be the cause of vibration rather than the cure.
 
I gave up reaching for the rim of a bowl after maybe the third time (Polish) I got one of those wonderful cut/burn injuries from a rough edge. One of those circumstances where I taught myself to reach for the ON/OFF switch, not the bowl. Imagine a giant paper cut which, if you brush hard enough, does cauterize itself.
 
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