I recently purchased a Incra 1000SE miter gauge. I was wondering if it can be used for segmented cuttings. Instead of buying the wedge sledges and cut off jigs.
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Using the Incra 1000SE Miter Gauge
- Thread starter Rodney Quesenberry
- Start date
With careful calibration at the initial set up, and some stops, it should work well. I have one, but don't do segmented turnings. The advantage of a jig riding on plywood is you have less chance of the parts flying out.
Thanks
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
The seg easy sled is more accurate and easier to use. I have an Inca miter gauge and ever since I built the seg easy it just sits.
Most of my rings are 12 or 18 segments, using Incra 1000 HD, No problems at all. Might be more accurate than the wedgie sled I built, if so it’s the builder’s fault!!
i have used the Incra miter gauge for a number of segmented projects over the years with good results. It is a well-designed tool.
The key to accuracy with the wedgie/segeasy sled is to make sure the two fences are dead-on straight and parallel. The examples on Jerry Bennett's website (segeasy.com) are spot-on, and Jerry's wedgies are worth what he is charging.
have been using the incra for years and have never even considered a wedgie sled. It works wonderful and, being laser cut, is acurate to the 1/10 of a degree
The problem with the sled is how do you make the angle of the fences the same as in the example using a 30/60 drafting triangle where you can have one fence at 14 degrees and the other at 16 degrees, which leads to the necessity of marking each piece so that each joint is made up of one of each angle. If you invested in a good quality protractor you would be able to set the fences individually and save the expense of the wedgies.
Not a problem at all. When I built my sled, I just used a protractor set to 15 degrees to set the angle on one of the two fences and locked it down. I then used the 30/60/90 triangle to set the other fence and locked it down. I measured the distance between the two fences to find the halfway point and struck a center line on the sled. My wedgies all have center marks (I think Jerry's wedgies have center marks), which makes re-aligning the fences easy-peasy. Regardless of which wedgie I use, my fences are always pretty much spot on.
Thanks for the information
I recently began experimenting with ways to cut segments as a start to doing segmented vessels. I have the Incra 1000HD miter gauge. The problem I found almost immediately is that the miter gauge cuts angles for various furniture and other projects extremely accurately. However, the first 6-segmented ring I cut as an experiment left a gap between one segment and its neighbors. That's because no matter how tiny the difference between a real 60 degrees and the actual result from the miter gauge, it will be multiplied by 6 segments. In the end, it's noticeable. I have made adjustments and got it closer. The real problem is that the adjustment is so slight that it's almost impossible to get the gauge to a "perfect" 90 so that when you dial it to 60 it is also perfect. In my case I think it would be safe to say the difference between the actual and a real 60 might have been 0.05°; possibly even less. Multiply .1 degree by 6 and you get more than 0.5°; enough to be noticeable. I guess you can deactivate the indicators on the Incra miter gauge and just match the angle to something that is exactly what you want by buying CNC cut segments as guides, but what is the point. Making a wedgie sled isn't that difficult, especially if you pick one of the easy YouTube videos to follow. True you still need to buy CNC cut guides but the actual cutting is much easier on a wedgie sled than on the Incra miter gauge. I haven't started to do segmented bowls in earnest yet, but I decided, Incra miter gauge or not, I'm just building the wedgie sled. Fewer headaches.
Pete Marken has taken Jerry Bennett’s terrific idea to the next level with his Wedgieless Sleds. This sled creates exacting segments at any segment count you want (Pete will custom make things to your request). I use mine when cutting 144 segment rings; absolutely spot on. The sleds cost a little more than making your own, they cost a little more than adding wedgies to your hand built sled but the joy of no longer being concerned with the accuracy of your segments is well worth the investment!
Like most tools, you will never be disappointed buying the best tool! Best tools are always being honed as better ideas are always being thought up by talented people using the original tool!!
Like most tools, you will never be disappointed buying the best tool! Best tools are always being honed as better ideas are always being thought up by talented people using the original tool!!
Right on! I did exactly the same thing. I used my INCRA miter gauge for about three years and then built a wedgie sled. No more trial cuts to get a snug fit. Making segmented rings is so much quicker now. My INCRA has been sitting for about 5 years.
I use my Incra miter gauge for specialty segments such as feature rings. I used Jerry's wedgie sled for years with great success. I would not be doing segmented work if it were not for Jerry's sled. (the best thing ever invented for segmenters). I later purchased a wedgie-less sled from Pete Marken and I love it.
The method I use is to mount an auxiliary table on my Makita miter saw, but first I square up the saw at 90 degrees both ways by checking the angles with a machinist square on scrap wood. The auxiliary table has it's own fence and a Destaco clamp to hold the segment being cut such that the segment being cut is seated between the fence and the length stop and held by the clamp during the cut. This method still requires fine tuning by cutting a complete set of segments from scrap wood and dry fitting them to check for consistent joints, but once tuned will produce accurate rings and use the entire strip of stock without any danger to your fingers. The other consideration is the stock being cut must be straight and absolutely parallel in both width and thickness and all pieces to be used together should be milled at the same time.
Actually I realized I misstated the issue in my case in my previous post. The angle for each cut is 30 degrees for my test hexagon, which means that, however tiny the difference between the true 30 degrees and the actual cut, it is multiplied by 12. The difference is insignificant in a 90 or 45 degree cut for a piece of furniture because it's tiny and wood moves anyway. However, in a ring, even the tiny discrepancy is noticeable when assembling the ring. I can, of course, buy the wedgies and match the Incra sled angle to the wedgies. However, if I'm doing that, I decided making a wedgie sled would yield a more certain result, so that's what I'm doing. While the Pete Marken jig is truly a "cool tool" and I'm never one to discourage anyone from buying tools, it ends up costing about twice as much as if I bought a high quality miter bar, the hardware to assemble the wedgie sled, and wedgies as I need them. I'm just old enough that the additional cost doesn't seem worthwhile, especially since segmented turning isn't my only woodworking interest and I won't make enough segmented vessels to make it worthwhile. It is truly a "cool tool" though.
I have an Incra Miter 1000 miter gauge and use it regularly for everyday woodworking applications, and recently decided I would try my first segmented turning project. After carefully examining the Incra gauge, and getting an answer from Mark at Incra, I decided to build my own Wedgie Sled. It looks easy to build, but being human, it took me several attempts to get a "perfect to the naked eye" ring, 6-inches in diameter, with no gaps.
Yesterday I put it into action, cutting segments for the first 2 rings of a 12-segment cup for a game called FARKEL.
Although my "test segments" show perfect joints, cutting segments for a real project yielded slightly imperfect results. I'm using cherry and bamboo, and the gap was under .002, so I resorted to gluing 1/2-circles and sanding them flat to make a perfect joint across the center.
I don't think it is humanly possible to get it better than that, and I don't think it will be easy to find the gap [if there is any] after it has been turned and finished.
Looking for any comments or suggestions.
Yesterday I put it into action, cutting segments for the first 2 rings of a 12-segment cup for a game called FARKEL.
Although my "test segments" show perfect joints, cutting segments for a real project yielded slightly imperfect results. I'm using cherry and bamboo, and the gap was under .002, so I resorted to gluing 1/2-circles and sanding them flat to make a perfect joint across the center.
I don't think it is humanly possible to get it better than that, and I don't think it will be easy to find the gap [if there is any] after it has been turned and finished.
Looking for any comments or suggestions.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I also switched from the Incra to the wedgie sled. I have probably gone through all the various segmented sleds and methods over the years. I'm not an active segmented turner so each time I do one I'm kind of experimenting. The seg easy sled made the job so easy and dead on.
I'm really surprised to hear the Incra does not give good results. It looks well made.
When I started segmenting one of our club members built me a wedgie sled. After using the 30/60 degree store bought triangles for a while I decided to make my own wedgies. I have a Bridgeport milling machine and precision rotary table. I can divide each degree into 60 minutes and further divide each minute into 10 second increments. I make a wedgie template using the milling machine than cut working wedgie's on a pattern router. Takes about 30 seconds to turn out a precision wedge from the template. Over the years I have a bunch of templates from 8 to 48 segments. Always have good results with rings closing using the wedgie sled.
Sometime later I bought some Hammond Glider printers saws. These are small sliding table saws used in every newspaper office in the country years ago to cut lead linotype. High precision machines but antiques now. Thought this would be perfect to cut wedges so I designed a miter gauge based on the Incra design with a vernier scale. Accuracy is easily less than a tenth degree. Rings close first time every time and just knock off minor fuzz on the wedges. The beauty of this design is I can easily cut any angle. Want 11 or 27 wedges in your ring, no problem. And it only takes a few seconds to set up. It worked so well I built a second miter gauge for a Oliver sliding table saw. Actually I think the proper name is quadrant for the Oliver.
Here is my Hammond.....it will never leave my shop.
When I started segmenting one of our club members built me a wedgie sled. After using the 30/60 degree store bought triangles for a while I decided to make my own wedgies. I have a Bridgeport milling machine and precision rotary table. I can divide each degree into 60 minutes and further divide each minute into 10 second increments. I make a wedgie template using the milling machine than cut working wedgie's on a pattern router. Takes about 30 seconds to turn out a precision wedge from the template. Over the years I have a bunch of templates from 8 to 48 segments. Always have good results with rings closing using the wedgie sled.
Sometime later I bought some Hammond Glider printers saws. These are small sliding table saws used in every newspaper office in the country years ago to cut lead linotype. High precision machines but antiques now. Thought this would be perfect to cut wedges so I designed a miter gauge based on the Incra design with a vernier scale. Accuracy is easily less than a tenth degree. Rings close first time every time and just knock off minor fuzz on the wedges. The beauty of this design is I can easily cut any angle. Want 11 or 27 wedges in your ring, no problem. And it only takes a few seconds to set up. It worked so well I built a second miter gauge for a Oliver sliding table saw. Actually I think the proper name is quadrant for the Oliver.
Here is my Hammond.....it will never leave my shop.
I have a friend that has a Hamond but I could never talk him out of it and I could not find one anywhere else. One of the keys to success I think is the accuracy of the sliding table relative to the blade being 0 degrees 0 minutes & 0 seconds or exact parallel and from there it is just a matter of getting the fence set to the exact angle.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
The Incra is extremely well made. But as someone said above. Errors add up. A .oo1" error multiplied 24 times really gets big. That's why the seg easy is so good. It cancels the errors.
The Incra miter is only as accurate as your table saw blade alignment is to the miter track. You also need to adjust the guides that snug the miter into
the table saw track.
the table saw track.
I've owned the Incra 1000HD Sled . It's an excellent miter sled; extremely accurate. However, even though I have not gotten into segmented forms yet (just experimenting), I can see that the accuracy and precision to cut parts for a piece of furniture isn't on the same level as cutting segments. With furniture, shop tables, drawers, tables, almost anything besides segments, .001 of a degree isn't significant and certainly not noticeable to the human eye. Wood moves anyway and getting it even less precise than that is just fine. I have digital calipers and gauges, but to be honest, they only are useful in satisfying my mental image of the accuracy they yield.
With segments, even .001 of a degree will add up enough that, in the end, there will be a gap that can be seen. Sure you can glue up half rings and sand that last joint, but I'm sure that even that is a little tough to get just right. I am in the process of making a wedgie sled because of all of this. Why fight it? They aren't that hard or expensive to make and I really haven't read or heard of any negatives of the wedgie sled. It's just one of those tools that has a specific purpose and it works. I gave thinking about using the Incra 1000HD sled after only one simple 6-sided figure experiment. While Incra's tools are the best, this sled just isn't made for the purpose of cutting segments.
With segments, even .001 of a degree will add up enough that, in the end, there will be a gap that can be seen. Sure you can glue up half rings and sand that last joint, but I'm sure that even that is a little tough to get just right. I am in the process of making a wedgie sled because of all of this. Why fight it? They aren't that hard or expensive to make and I really haven't read or heard of any negatives of the wedgie sled. It's just one of those tools that has a specific purpose and it works. I gave thinking about using the Incra 1000HD sled after only one simple 6-sided figure experiment. While Incra's tools are the best, this sled just isn't made for the purpose of cutting segments.