My wife is a beginning woodturner and has had a mastectomy. She has some muscle loss in her right shoulder due to the surgery (she is right handed). Because of this she has difficulty holding tools "the correct" way. Also she is concerned about the impact of turning on lymphedemia (sp???). Does anyone have anything to share with her that would be helpful. TIA
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Turning after mastectomy
- Thread starter russ stanton
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2004
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- www.hockenberywoodturning.com
Russ,
A first,step would be to discuss it with the doctors.
I know two women who are turning quite well and doing quite well after- mastectomies.
I know one woman who just wanted to be doing all the normal stuff again and turning was one milestones in the healing process as was
Paddling a canoe and bike riding...
As to the muscle loss. The "right way to hold the tool is varied.
If it is bowl turning
Oftentimes a person with a weak right shoulder can turn well using the right hand forward where its job is to push down on top of the tool.
The hand does not even need to close or push hard to be effective.
Might need to learn to hollow bowls running the lathe in reverse and standing on the back side (or use a shortbed and stand I front)
Maybe for a while turning small objects like ornaments, boxes, pens.... Would be a way to relearn how to turn with the weak shoulder.
I would certainly recommend hollowing with a trapped system or an articulated.
Be safe,
Al
A first,step would be to discuss it with the doctors.
I know two women who are turning quite well and doing quite well after- mastectomies.
I know one woman who just wanted to be doing all the normal stuff again and turning was one milestones in the healing process as was
Paddling a canoe and bike riding...
As to the muscle loss. The "right way to hold the tool is varied.
If it is bowl turning
Oftentimes a person with a weak right shoulder can turn well using the right hand forward where its job is to push down on top of the tool.
The hand does not even need to close or push hard to be effective.
Might need to learn to hollow bowls running the lathe in reverse and standing on the back side (or use a shortbed and stand I front)
Maybe for a while turning small objects like ornaments, boxes, pens.... Would be a way to relearn how to turn with the weak shoulder.
I would certainly recommend hollowing with a trapped system or an articulated.
Be safe,
Al
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Not sure what is proper here, but for me, one general rule is if you are having to fight it, you are doing some thing wrong. Take easy cuts and small projects, and see how it feels. Then work your way up. I usually have left hand on the shaft, right hand just past the ferrule, and the handle under my forearm. I am also holding the tools more level as opposed to the dropped handle, and hand on the far end of the tool.
robo hippy
robo hippy
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I agree with Reed. A properly used sharp tool should not be difficult to use. I hold the tool against my body and use my body to control the tool. My right hand is mostly just twisting the tool to change the way the edge contacts the wood.
I do know there are times when the arms are away from the body. If the tool overhang is kept to a minimum then the force needed by your right hand is greatly reduced.
I know that it takes time to heal from any injury and she will probably have to learn different ways to hold the tool to find what is comfortable for her. The best bet would be to just start slow take light cuts and frequent breaks and it will come back to her.
As we get older (yea I can't believe I said We but I did) it takes much longer to get over injuries and very frustrating because you just want things to get back to what they were. And yea, sometimes you just have to learn a different way to do things because the old way isn't going to work anymore.
Here's hoping everything gets better and she hangs around to turn for many many more years.
I do know there are times when the arms are away from the body. If the tool overhang is kept to a minimum then the force needed by your right hand is greatly reduced.
I know that it takes time to heal from any injury and she will probably have to learn different ways to hold the tool to find what is comfortable for her. The best bet would be to just start slow take light cuts and frequent breaks and it will come back to her.
As we get older (yea I can't believe I said We but I did) it takes much longer to get over injuries and very frustrating because you just want things to get back to what they were. And yea, sometimes you just have to learn a different way to do things because the old way isn't going to work anymore.
Here's hoping everything gets better and she hangs around to turn for many many more years.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2004
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- Location
- Lakeland, Florida
- Website
- www.hockenberywoodturning.com
I totally agree The tools should do the work. You need to guide them.
Range of motion is more of an issue that strength.
The handle hand has to control the pitch roll an yaw of the tool and keep he tool against the body.
John, the elderly and children often lack the range of motion to hollow a Bowl over the bed by bringing the handle though a 130 degree arc or more.
The can however Hollow a bowl on a shortbed standing in front of it.
Both often lack the hand strength to get a pressure fit box lid off after turning it.
Where there is a will there is a way.
Al
Range of motion is more of an issue that strength.
The handle hand has to control the pitch roll an yaw of the tool and keep he tool against the body.
John, the elderly and children often lack the range of motion to hollow a Bowl over the bed by bringing the handle though a 130 degree arc or more.
The can however Hollow a bowl on a shortbed standing in front of it.
Both often lack the hand strength to get a pressure fit box lid off after turning it.
Where there is a will there is a way.
Al
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I agree Al, reaching across the bed is tough for anyone. Might I suggest a captured bar system. They require virtually no strength to use. I'm fond of the Monster tool system since it's fairly light weight but very sturdy and easy to use. I use the Jamieson style myself but it's kind of heavy to install on the lathe.
Sorry to hear about your wife's brush with breast cancer. Hope everything is clear and stays that way.
As a turner and physician (anesthesiologist), I can certainly weigh in with an expert's opinion regarding the lymphedema aspect. The turning part, I'll leave to my capable colleagues, some of who already chimed in.
Lymphedema, as you likely know, is one of the annoying side effects of surgery involving removal of some or all of the axillary lymph nodes. The stuff that normally leaks out of your blood vessels (lymph), and is usually returned to the central circulation by muscle activity and the lymphatic system, is stymied by the lack (due to surgical removal) of the collecting pots (lymph nodes). The arm can swell and become painful. In some situations, infections can be very serious, as normal lymphatic activity assists the body in removing wastes and fighting infection. Okay, enough school.
I would think that, if she has no lymphedema at this time, I would not worry about it. She either will, or will not (brilliant ey?). Might as well wait until it starts before loosing sleep over it.
Physical activity, like wood turning, especially using the upper extremities above the heart, should promote better lymph flow; even with a deficit. Also, having a hobby that you enjoy is good for overall well being and particularly helpful in combating disease. It should not hurt though. I didn't notice if you mentioned how long ago the surgery was, but it can be several months before her upper body gets back to baseline. She's gonna' be sore for awhile. Physical exertion is good, but I wouldn't push it into the pain. All in all though, wood turning, in and of itself should be safe. Be careful though about splinters and cuts on the affected arm. As I said, infection risk is higher for her (at least in the short term) than the average person.
Perhaps some different tools (carbides? captured tool rest?) or even a swiveling headstock lathe (if you can afford to do that) might make life easier for her. Ask her surgeon. Support her (as clearly you already are doing). Encourage her. Time will tell whether or not any of the less fun side effects of the surgery will rear their ugly heads.
As a turner and physician (anesthesiologist), I can certainly weigh in with an expert's opinion regarding the lymphedema aspect. The turning part, I'll leave to my capable colleagues, some of who already chimed in.
Lymphedema, as you likely know, is one of the annoying side effects of surgery involving removal of some or all of the axillary lymph nodes. The stuff that normally leaks out of your blood vessels (lymph), and is usually returned to the central circulation by muscle activity and the lymphatic system, is stymied by the lack (due to surgical removal) of the collecting pots (lymph nodes). The arm can swell and become painful. In some situations, infections can be very serious, as normal lymphatic activity assists the body in removing wastes and fighting infection. Okay, enough school.
I would think that, if she has no lymphedema at this time, I would not worry about it. She either will, or will not (brilliant ey?). Might as well wait until it starts before loosing sleep over it.
Physical activity, like wood turning, especially using the upper extremities above the heart, should promote better lymph flow; even with a deficit. Also, having a hobby that you enjoy is good for overall well being and particularly helpful in combating disease. It should not hurt though. I didn't notice if you mentioned how long ago the surgery was, but it can be several months before her upper body gets back to baseline. She's gonna' be sore for awhile. Physical exertion is good, but I wouldn't push it into the pain. All in all though, wood turning, in and of itself should be safe. Be careful though about splinters and cuts on the affected arm. As I said, infection risk is higher for her (at least in the short term) than the average person.
Perhaps some different tools (carbides? captured tool rest?) or even a swiveling headstock lathe (if you can afford to do that) might make life easier for her. Ask her surgeon. Support her (as clearly you already are doing). Encourage her. Time will tell whether or not any of the less fun side effects of the surgery will rear their ugly heads.
Russ,
I think you've received some pretty good advice here. It seems to me the crux of the problem is that beginning turners inherently use more force and experienced turners have learned good tool technique so they don't have to work as hard. It's like the age old dilemma, How do you get a job until you've had experience. As a novice, your wife would normally put more effort into turning and more stress on any weak, stiff, or painful part.
If the surgery is fairly recent, then the advice above to start with easier projects and build skill and strength over time is the right one.
If it has been a while since the surgery without turning or doing other previously normal activities, she will have lost some strength. And some range of motion. Shoulders are tricky--if you try to strengthen a stiff shoulder, it tends to cause pain and limit the ability to make progress. This is a situation where a physical therapist can be very valuable.
I also agree with Jeff on the lymphedema. It's very annoying if she's the unlucky one who gets it, but mastectomy patients should try their best to ignore it (maybe using a garment) and get on with their normal lives. If she has lymphedema, she will have to be extra careful about any nicks or scrapes getting infected, though.
And best wishes for a long and joyful life together for you both.
I think you've received some pretty good advice here. It seems to me the crux of the problem is that beginning turners inherently use more force and experienced turners have learned good tool technique so they don't have to work as hard. It's like the age old dilemma, How do you get a job until you've had experience. As a novice, your wife would normally put more effort into turning and more stress on any weak, stiff, or painful part.
If the surgery is fairly recent, then the advice above to start with easier projects and build skill and strength over time is the right one.
If it has been a while since the surgery without turning or doing other previously normal activities, she will have lost some strength. And some range of motion. Shoulders are tricky--if you try to strengthen a stiff shoulder, it tends to cause pain and limit the ability to make progress. This is a situation where a physical therapist can be very valuable.
I also agree with Jeff on the lymphedema. It's very annoying if she's the unlucky one who gets it, but mastectomy patients should try their best to ignore it (maybe using a garment) and get on with their normal lives. If she has lymphedema, she will have to be extra careful about any nicks or scrapes getting infected, though.
And best wishes for a long and joyful life together for you both.
First, our thoughts and prayers for both of you. There is an organization, Casting for Recovery, that uses flycasting for both the physical aspects of the surgery plus the emotional healing needed. The flycasting motion closely imitates the physical exercises needed to strengthen the muscles. Hope this is helpful. Best to both of you!
I've heard that you live one hour longer for every hour spent fishing. Therefore, flycasting should work wonders.
The important message is to continue, make adaptions, take all the time and precautions that are necessary.
Thank you all for your helpful comments and supporting comments. Two things that seem to be helping are working on smaller projects to get some strength and muscle memory back and learning to adapt. We both just this weekend took a one day class with Dick Sing on Christmas ornaments and he told her to learn what works for her and that would be the "correct way" for her. In the past we had encountered the idea of there is only one right way to hold the tool. That does not work for her. In addition to the muscle loss she is on Femora which is not helping her arthritis so she has limited grip strength. Small projects seem to be working and she plans to continue along this road.
Another thing to consider is switching to the carbide tools like the Easy Wood Tools. I have carpal tunnel syndrome and holding tools at angles used to "give me the blues'. I actually almost quit because I couldn't stand holding the bevel rubbing tools for more than 45 minutes. Now, with the EWT's, I can turn all day. The tools are supported mainly by the left thumb on top to keep contact with the tool rest; your right hand on the handle is only for supporting and guiding the tool.