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Tormek Gouge Jig - manufacturing error

Well, as a newbie to the whole Tormek system, and trying to get it to 'grind by numbers' with a bench grinder mount and a Scheppach wetstone grinder, I thought the angle errors were down to either poor technique or that mix of gear.

Jeff Farris on the Tormek forum was a great help in getting me to the bottom of the problem but I wish the manufacturing error had been posted on a few of the forums around the place. It would have saved me some aggravation and more than a little expense.
 
I would think they would put a series of lines kind of like a vernier scale and the simply suggest which line to use to set the jig. You may want another setting for your preferred grind.
 
Let me first say that I like the Tormek and use the Tormek.

That said, the jigs are a long way from being precision instruments. With the price they charge for them, people might reasonably expect precision, but those expectations will go unfulfilled. But they are good enough (if somewhat overpriced for what they are) for the job.

Looking at the (to my eye) sloppy casting on my jig, I can't imagine them being able to incorporate a vernier scale into their process that would be in any way useable. And I can't imagine what they would jack the price of the jig up to if they had to add machining to their process.

I will say that I'm a little disappointed that they haven't offered to replace the defective pieces. Telling you to scribe your own line or request a cheesy sticker seems like a really lousy response to their mistake.

This kind of customer care in the face of declining product quality could be a sign of a terminal disease having taken hold at Tormek. That would be too bad.

Ed
 
I have an older jig so it does not have the error, but here is something that I did to make the alignment marks easier to see. I used a red pigment marker that has a fine tip (more durable than a dye marker) to mark the notches in the gauge and makes it easier to align them to the arrow.

BTW, I use the bottom of the notches as the reference points as shown in the Tormek User Manual. Jeff and others have said that they use the peaks as the alignment marks. As long as you are consistent, it doesn't really matter, but it would have been nice to have this more clearly defined and have the parts cast with a bit more precision. I will have to say that the gouge jig is durable. I figured that I would have broken it after about eight years of use, but the only part that has worn out on the jig is the steel screw which I replaced earlier this year.

I used to participate in the Creek, but squabbles and flame wars seemed to break out on too regular a basis even in the turning forum where folks are usually more civil than the other forums. One of their weird rules is that you could not mention any other forum by name and it was especially bad to post a link to any other forum.
 
After a couple years, I found I was only using two different settings on the gouge jig. I solved the precision / repeatability problem by just buying an additional gouge jig.

A pricey solution, but it does save a bit of time messing with setting the jig as well as the time / metal lost with extra grinding if the jig wasn't set just right.

I also bought the TTS-100. It's a lot better solution than what I had made to try and accomplish the same thing.

Ed
 
My mount distance setter was pretty simple.

Get the distance right by working off a known bevel angle (45 the most common on my tools), then take a rectangle of ply, drill a half inch hole at one end, mount it on the rod, lay the other end flat against the wheel side and trace the arc on it. Remove and drive two nails into the arc 2" apart.
 
Ed_McDonnell said:
After a couple years, I found I was only using two different settings on the gouge jig. I solved the precision / repeatability problem by just buying an additional gouge jig.

A pricey solution, but it does save a bit of time messing with setting the jig as well as the time / metal lost with extra grinding if the jig wasn't set just right.

I also bought the TTS-100. It's a lot better solution than what I had made to try and accomplish the same thing.

Ed
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Hi Ed,

I found that I also generally use just two settings on the gouge jig and came up with the same solution that you did. You are right that it may be a bit pricey, but it sure makes sharpening a real pleasure and rewards you with precise repeatability. Glad to see that I am not the only one to use that solution.

Matt
 
rsser said:
My mount distance setter was pretty simple.

Get the distance right by working off a known bevel angle (45 the most common on my tools), then take a rectangle of ply, drill a half inch hole at one end, mount it on the rod, lay the other end flat against the wheel side and trace the arc on it. Remove and drive two nails into the arc 2" apart.
Click to expand...

Hi Ern - I had done something similar, but I used MDF because I wanted to eliminate all dimensional instability (plus I had a bunch of cutoffs I was looking for a use for). Sharpening planer blades and scissors on the Tormek is a little like standing next to a cow pissing on a flat rock. Everything gets wet. That didn't work out so well for my mdf setter.

I like the dual distance settings on the TTS-100 and while I could have eventually found a piece of plastic and fabricated something, it was easier to get the TTS-100.

Ed
 
Matthew Clarke said:
Hi Ed,

I found that I also generally use just two settings on the gouge jig and came up with the same solution that you did. You are right that it may be a bit pricey, but it sure makes sharpening a real pleasure and rewards you with precise repeatability. Glad to see that I am not the only one to use that solution.

Matt
Click to expand...

Hi Matt - Have you tried the Tormek Black Stone? It's another pricey upgrade that makes a huge difference. Particularly when working with some of the harder metals that are becoming more common.

If you switch next time you replace a stone, it's only a slightly price upgrade (about $20 extra). If you do it before the regular wheel wears out then it's a more impressively pricey upgrade.

Ed
 
Matt, I use a Scheppach 2500 and it holds its water better than a Tormek 😉

But I envy you guys. Std retail on the gouge jig Down under is around $145, the TTS is $42, and the T7 is $1100. Our buck is worth less than yours with an average wage that's roughly the same. So no complaints about how expensive they are!
 
Forgot to say: it's possible to oversell the repeatability angle. As you'd know, there is still the variable of how long you spend on the wings of a gouge for example. Too long and you've got a mess.
 
Hello rsser........

Are you still using an abrasive belt for general shaping of your lathe tools?

.....then final edge done on the Tormek?

How do you like it?

ooc
 
rsser said:
Not me Odie.

Have always used a dry grinder; recently added a wetstone.
Click to expand...

OK, pardon me......mistaken identity! 😀

You are doing things the same as I've been doing......dry grinder, and wetstone.......I've come to really like sharp edges from this method......spoiled, I guess I am! 😉

My wet grinder came out long before the Tormek......same principle, without the leather stropping capability. Instead of that, I've been using slip stones and diamond impregnated hones........

ooc
 

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Good setup Odie.

I like your tool holders.

Yes, I use a Scheppach wet grinder which looks to be a knock-off of the Tormek. Mine was made in Germany but later models were made in China I'm told and not so good.

I now have a T. Bench Grinder Mount in front of my dry wheel and am slowly standardising on angles. It sure takes some time to reshape a wide thick skew of quality steel 🙁 ... that would be a good job for a belt abrasive.
 
Belt sanders get the edge too hot because of the type of abrasive -- and probably the high speed, too. I first tried it on plane irons when it ws suggested on Wood Online and referred to as the Scary Sharp Method about ten years ago. The scariest part of that technique was how fast the edge turned blue.

When I bought my Tormek about nine years ago, woodturning was the farthermost thing from my mind. My interest back then was "flat" woodworking and I used the Tormek for plane irons, jointer blades, planer blades, and hand chisels (not to mention kitchen knives, scissors, and other miscellaneous household sharpening needs as the alleged "reason" for "needing" the Tormek). Little did I know about the vortex lurking around he corner.

My two favorite lines from non-Tormek users:
  1. "It's too expensive" -- When I bought my Tormek and accessories, the cost was less than what I paid later for a high-end slow speed dry grinder along with a pair of Norton SG wheels and the Oneway Wolverine sharpening fixtures and an Ellsworth jig. The cost of the new Tormek might now be greater than the other stuff, but not by a large amount.
  2. "It's too slow" -- most of those who have said this to me have never actually sharpened a tool on the Tormek or consider the time spen learning how to use it as part of the comparison time.
 
Mike Darlow is a fan of belts for sharpening; think he recommends zirconia belts. HSS would stand the heat better than CS but for me the big drawback would be the difficulty of setting up jigs to work with the system.

At the prices we pay here frankly I can't see an economic justification for the Tormek system. Set aside say $1500 for a T7 and turner's kit. I only ended up on the slippery slide because I was skeptical of the claims about longer edge life and cleaner cuts. Haven't really demonstrated those for myself but the AWT articles on the matter are pretty convincing.

The economic justification is clearer for CS bench tools where overheating is an ever present danger and where flattening chisel and plane blade backs is time-consuming.
 
At the prices we pay here frankly I can't see an economic justification for the Tormek system. Set aside say $1500 for a T7 and turner's kit. I only ended up on the slippery slide because I was skeptical of the claims about longer edge life and cleaner cuts. Haven't really demonstrated those for myself but the AWT articles on the matter are pretty convincing.

The economic justification is clearer for CS bench tools where overheating is an ever present danger and where flattening chisel and plane blade backs is time-consuming.
Click to expand...

Pretty much thoughts on the matter as well.

Using a conventional grinding wheel, say 8" and running around the edge with a medium diamond file will produce darn near the same result.
Cost wise about 1/10 of a Tormek, time taken probably half that of a Tormek or less.
 
Bill Boehme said:
I used to participate in the Creek, but squabbles and flame wars seemed to break out on too regular a basis even in the turning forum where folks are usually more civil than the other forums. One of their weird rules is that you could not mention any other forum by name and it was especially bad to post a link to any other forum.
Click to expand...

I have not been back to that forum in several years and don't miss it one bit. Really stupid rules.
 
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