Tormack and other water sharpening systems

[jim.mcgaha]

Any pro or cons on water sharpening systems like Tormack?

 

[Barry Crowder]

Tormek solves the problem of overheating carbon steel (which will likely lose it's hardness if overheated), but slows down the process.

IMHO, this might be a valuable trade-off, except that with woodturning tools, they are usually made from High Speed Steel which does not lose it's hardness when heated. Using a Tormek would be slower than a regular grinder, plus it's quite expensive, so you'd be getting the negatives without any benefit. That's the way it seems to me, anyway. YMMV

 

[hockenbery]

Some folks love the tormek. I personally think it is the finest sharpening system I have used.
But I rarely use it for turning tools and ours sits in the corner most of the time.
I use mine to sharpen skews, jointer knives and planer blades.

For me it is too much mess and set up and too slow.

I prefer the 8" grinders with CBN wheels or Norton 3x wheels
Geiger vertical solution and an Ellsworth jig.

tormek is great wheel for anyone slightly intimidated by the dry wheels
I don't worry a bit about teaching kids to use it.
Geiger makes a vertical solution to fit the tormek too.

 

[John K Jordan]

I've been using the Tormek for a bunch of years and love the extremely fine grind. It is mostly worthless for shaping tools - for that I always used a separate coarse stone wheel on a bench grinder sitting next to it. The water business is a pain to set up each time but I got used to it. (Add water to the tray, wait for it to soak into the wheel, add more water, wait some more...) The Tormek gouge jig has features others don't. I like their skew jig and some of the others such as the roughing gouge jig. At the TAW symposium this year turner Glenn Lucas used and praised the Tormek.

This last year I changed things in my sharpening station. I put a 600 grit aluminum CBN wheel from Ken Rizza on the Tormek (used dry). I put two CBN wheels on the bench grinder and added a second bench grinder for the stone wheel and a metal polishing wheel.

My evaluation so far with the new setup:

*- The 600 grit Tormek wheel is excellent. It does not give me as fine a grind on my turning tools, although they still cut OK. The wheel may cut differently after "breaking in." Reed Grey said this took about a month for him, but didn't keep up with how many sharpenings that was.

Not having to deal with the water is a big plus. One issue: when using it from the front with the rotation away from the edge any tool develops a long annoying trail of black steel dust which hangs (since all tools get magnetized) and obscures the edge. To fix this: a few seconds with an old bulk tape demagnetizer. I would like to rewire or replace the motor to make it turn the opposite direction. I know instead of reversing the rotation I can sharpen from the other side but that is a less comfortable option.

I like the fact that the CBN wheel will not change diameter over time. I wore down two of the Tormek stone wheels. I also like not having to dress the wheel to keep it flat.

I love the leather stropping wheels (the flat one and the detail one) on the Tormek and use it a lot, for example to remove the burr on the inside of spindle gouges and polish certain cutting edges.

*- The bench grinder (no-name Woodcraft 1/2 speed 3/4 hp) with two CBN wheels (one 240 grit I think) is perfect for shaping tools to a new grind and sharpening scrapers. It cuts very fast, too fast if you are not careful! Again, this may change slightly as the wheel stabilizes over time. The other CBN wheel on that grinder is a finer grit and I'm just now experimenting with it.

Years ago I made a mount to add the Tormek guide bar to the bench grinder so I could use the Tormek jigs. (They sell this now) Although I have the Oneway Wolverine bases on both bench grinders and do use the Varigring jigs for some gouges, I prefer the Tormek gouge jig.

*- The second bench grinder (cheap 1/2 hp Rikon) has a stone wheel that I now reserve mostly for grinding on softer mild steel. I read that mild steel is not the best thing to grind with a CBN wheel. I also put a good metal polishing wheel on that grinder which I find I use more than I though I would.


So far, this setup is working out well. My wish list includes a second Tormek so I can still use the water wheel. I find the Tormek grind on my spindle gouges followed by polishing the edge just like you do for a carving gouge makes for an amazing tool, especially for small things in hard exotics. The polished edge leaves a very smooth surface that often needs no sanding. (The cut wood can't be smoother than the tool edge) The polished edge does seem to last longer than a non-polished edge but I have not done careful comparison tests to prove this. Reed Grey just put a 1000 grit CBN wheel on his Tormek and I'm waiting to hear his longer-term evaluation.

JKJ

 

[Raul McCai]

Any pro or cons on water sharpening systems like Tormack?

I use an old Craftsman double ended lathe head stock ( the sort you can find cheap at flea markets) and run two 10" diameter stones. The lathe head stock lets me use slow speeds.

Then I built a knock off of the Tormek tool holding system and it works great.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I've been using the Tormek for a bunch of years and love the extremely fine grind. It is mostly worthless for shaping tools - for that I always used a separate coarse stone wheel on a bench grinder sitting next to it. .....

I have been using my Tormek since at least 1999 and have incorporated upgrades into it so that it is essentially the same as the current model other than the color of the powder coat finish ... mine is green and the new ones are blue.

I originally bought it for bench tools such as planes and chisels as well as jointer and planer knives. It wasn't too long before I filleted my thumb (that's how the ER doctor described it) using a carving chisel sharpened on the Tormek. I never felt a thing until the ER doctor started sewing my thumb back together. I knew better, but figured that I could get away just once with incorrectly using the chisel where I was pushing it towards my hand holding the piece of wood. It made a beautifully smooth cut in the wood on its way towards doing the same thing to my left thumb. I learned that the Tormek does indeed get tools sharp.

When I started woodturning a few years later, I went with my favorite Tormek after initially using a dry grinder for a few months and hating all of the white grit got all over the shop and caused me to having coughing fits from all the fine dust that hung in the air. Like a lot of things, it takes some practice to sharpen turning tools on the Tormek both very sharp and do it quickly. There is, however, one tool that takes a long time to sharpen on the Tormek ... the skew. On the other hand, I believe that there is a huge difference in skew sharpness using a Tormek compared to using a bench grinder with a wheel such as the Norton 3X. Because of that, I endure the lengthy process of sharpening my skews on the Tormek. With other turning tools such as gouges, the difference in sharpening time is almost nothing. Scrapers are sharpened on a platform and you learn quickly to pay attention or else the wheel with run away with the tool. Fortunately, that's not dangerous. Grinding away the heel on tools is a great help for sharpening tools on the platform. For most other tools a jig is mandatory.

I haven't tried the harder black grinding wheel for the Tormek that is specifically for sharpening turning tools. I've thought about a CBN wheel, but my concern is that the edge will be equivalent to CBN sharpened edges on a dry grinder. That's not a bad thing, but not quite as sharp as using the Tormek gray stone. If I get a CBN wheel. I think that I will get an 8" wheel for my dry grinder.

Would I recommend the Tormek ... yes and no. When I bought mine, the price at a woodworking show seventeen years ago was reasonable. I also sharpen hand tools that I would otherwise hand sharpen using wet diamond bench stones. I also sharpen other things like knives and scissors. If you sharpen a lot of other things besides turning tools then maybe you could justify the price tag. Otherwise, if you already own a bench grinder I would be inclined to just get some quality stones such as the Norton 3X wheels along with the Wolverine system. It is actually possible to spend more than the cost of the Tormek with a fancy dry grinding system.