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Tool Rest Marks?

G

Gabe Latner

Joined
Jul 8, 2022
Messages
24
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22
Location
Toronto, ON
My shop's tool rest has developed some nicks that make it "bumpy" when I'm sliding a gouge along.

What causes these?

And is there a way to fix it besides taking a file to it?

Thanks!
 
Gabe Latner said:
My shop's tool rest has developed some nicks that make it "bumpy" when I'm sliding a gouge along.

What causes these?

And is there a way to fix it besides taking a file to it?
Click to expand...

A flat file will true a cast I iron tool rest with a few strokes.I carry one to demos.
Also a candle stub rubbed over the smoothly filed tool rest will let the tools slide with less friction and may reduce the scoring.

Tools dragging over the tool rest causes scoring and grooves. Some tools like skew can have their square edge softened by grinder or other abrasive action and still work well.

My parting tool is a major reason I have to true up my cast iron rests. It is not thick enough to round the corners that contact the rest.
And when properly used it is pushed across the toolrest where it will score the softer cast iron.

Tool rests like Robust have a hardened steel rod that is low friction and doesn’t score. These I run a little 220 sandpaper over them to clean them if the get loaded with resin.
 
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I myself like a cast iron tool rest. When the Robust tool rest came out I bought a couple, didn't like them. Kinda felt to me that there was like an electric vibration where with cast iron I didn't feel anything like that. I still mostly use the cast iron rests but I do use Robo's rests which have the bar on top. As a person using the cast iron rests gets more proficient in turning there will be less and less nicks in the tool rest and like Al said a file makes quick work in getting it back flat.
 
For the drill rod, I found the A2 to be much harder than the O and W (air, oil, water). It is still not hardened, but is better than cast iron for being almost 'frictionless'. Not sure if you can find some one to harden it for you or not. They do harden commercially by the pound, so probably best to harden a number of pieces rather than just one. In testing, I tried one piece that was hardened first and then welded onto the steel support arm/finger. No change in the hardness at the welds. The guys who welded it got it 'very hot'. The epoxy does a good job of holding it on. However if you drop it on the floor, or when you drop it on the floor, it will land on an end, and the bar can pop off. Happened to one of the first Robust tool rests I got. No problem to use some JB weld or similar product, and stick it back on.

robo hippy
 
How good are the tool rests with the stainless steel rod on top?
Click to expand...
That would depend on the grade of stainless. 304 and 316 are fairly soft metals and not hardenable. 400 series is hardenable. So do research to see what grade of stainless was used.
 
Hmm, don't think I know of any that have a stainless rod on top, but that may be me... My Vic 240 had a metal rod on the straight tool rest, but it isn't nearly as hard as the hardened drill rod. I know Jimmie Allen at D Way has made some box tool rests where they are case hardened, and they are just as hard as the drill rod. They may be stainless. Generally I am not a fan of round rests because of how the fulcrum changes when you raise and lower the handle, but I love the D Way ones for doing boxes.

robo hippy
 
I have a steel tool rest made similar to the cast iron rests and to eliminate the the possibility of nicking I bilt up the working edge with hard surfacing welding rod and that worked but it was a lot of work to get it properly shaped. Note: I am a very poor welder whereas someone who uses hard surfacing rod to repair wear edges on plow blades could likely do it much easier and better.
The shape of the typical cast iron tool rest is great the problem is that the CI nicks easily.
 
I have 2 tool rests I use more than any other. A robust mini rest with a 1'" tool post. I had it cut down to 10 3/4" long to do my mirror handle but find it so useful for everything from bowls to ornaments. My other favorite is my Bestwoodtools offset rest. The tool post is offset from the center. Since it's a round bar rest it's easy to flip it 180 degrees to get the long or short side exactly where you want it.
 
I don't know how many of you have something like a 2x72" grinder in your shop, but I have one, as the original reason for building our workshop was for my son to make knives as a career (which didn't last long, so I use the shop mostly for turning now). Anyway, a 150-grit sanding belt works wonders for quickly evening out and shining up my tool-rests. Sometimes I will wax them afterwards if I'm feeling fancy.

As I'll be turning on that 14" PM tool-rest here pretty soon, I'll have to decide how I feel about it. I've heard some say it's kind of soft. I may do that D-Way bar upgrade, we'll see.
 
Aaron Harris said:
I don't know how many of you have something like a 2x72" grinder in your shop, but I have one, as the original reason for building our workshop was for my son to make knives as a career (which didn't last long, so I use the shop mostly for turning now). Anyway, a 150-grit sanding belt works wonders for quickly evening out and shining up my tool-rests. Sometimes I will wax them afterwards if I'm feeling fancy.

As I'll be turning on that 14" PM tool-rest here pretty soon, I'll have to decide how I feel about it. I've heard some say it's kind of soft. I may do that D-Way bar upgrade, we'll see.
Click to expand...
Aaron, you must be the only other person on the planet that uses a belt grinder for lathe tool sharpening. Do you use a platen or a contact wheel? I think I prefer the edge I get from my 10 inch wheel. I like the ability to set the speed where I want it. I use a digital angle gauge to set my angles..
 
Brian Brightwell said:
Aaron, you must be the only other person on the planet that uses a belt grinder for lathe tool sharpening.
Click to expand...
I also use a belt grinder to sharpen so there are three of us. I use the platen but have built my grinder to utilize the Oneway Vari grind and Wolverine. Actually I think there are many that use a belt grinder or Sorby wouldn't be making this one.
Sorby ProEdge
 
To reply to the OP of this old thread, one way I've "fixed" cast iron tool rests that had small voids from some porosity or chips missing was to apply a bit of JB Weld, let harden, then file smooth. Eliminated the "bumps" when sliding the tool on the top.

I've personally gone to all Robust rests, various sizes.

JKJ
 
To answer the question of what causes the nicks, the sharp edges of a skew or parting tool makes them, particularly if you have a catch. I still use cast iron rests on my lathe. One thing I did do to minimize the problem was to roll the sharp edges on my skews and parting tools. I will occasionally smooth out the tool rest with a file, but it has been years since I have done it.
 
The D-Way rod (which is the same M42 steel as his tools) mounted on a cast iron tool rest is the best of both world from what I've experienced. The cast iron dampens vibration but the steel rod doesn't ding very easily. Catches are new turners' enemy, as they ding rests, as does tapping or whacking the tool rest just for emphasis or to knock of gunk from the tool. Seems to be a human habit.
 
Jamie Straw said:
Catches are new turners' enemy, as they ding rests, as does tapping or whacking the tool rest just for emphasis or to knock of gunk from the tool. Seems to be a human habit.
Click to expand...

WHAT??!!

Learning that simply astounds me. In about 25 years of turning, I've never ONCE even thought of tapping a tool against a tool rest. If that's a thing, no wonder some tool rests may need some maintenance. Before I started using Robust rest with hardened steel rods, I used cast iron rests for years with no such whacking. An occasional few strokes with a flat file would smooth any normal wear.

I keep small brass brushes for cleaning things, in a drawer within arm's reach behind where I stand at the lathe. Solvent such as mineral spirits helps with sticky gunk. (Or turn dry wood instead!)

Accidental catches are indeed a thing, but they should be banned to history as experience teaches tool control. If not, there are other solutions.

JKJ
 
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John K Jordan said:
WHAT??!!

Learning that simply astounds me. In about 25 years of turning, I've never ONCE even thought of tapping a tool against a tool rest. If that's a thing, no wonder some tool rests may need some maintenance.
Click to expand...
We had a demonstrator come in who tapped his gouges on the lathe bed and actually chipped some of the cast iron off.
 
Tapping a tool on the rest? I, too, have never done that, nor thought to do it. Wondering why, about the only reason I can think of to do so would be to clear shavings from the flute of a bowl gouge (flute aimed down), and the top edges of the flute of a hardened steel bowl gouge make for one of the very best "distressing" implements for cast iron that I can think of. There could be thousands of psi equivalent at that very small contact point from that innocent tap/whack. But if I have that situation, I've always mindlessly, in about a half second flat, run a fingertip (handle toward edge) down the flute to clear it. Yeah, willingly banging hardened steel on cast iron is not a good idea.

Up until just this past year when I bought 2 Robust rests for my now one year old Oneway 1224 (I didn't care for the OEM rests), I've never had an issue with using cast iron tool rests, my big lathes and small. All my tools with sharp corners (parting tools, skews, etc.) saw time on grinding wheels or sanding belts to round and smooth the corners. But an occasional ding would happen on the rest and for that I kept a fine single-cut mill file right at the lathe. A few full length strokes down the length of the rest, and I'm back to work. Non-issue for this hobby turner.

Hardened steel top tool rests are... great... good... just fine... yeah, just fine, but I've never wished for one if the factory cast iron rest was comfortable for me to use.
 
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John K Jordan said:
WHAT??!!

Learning that simply astounds me. In about 25 years of turning, I've never ONCE even thought of tapping a tool against a tool rest. If that's a thing, no wonder some tool rests may need some maintenance. Before I started using Robust rest with hardened steel rods, I used cast iron rests for years with no such whacking. An occasional few strokes with a flat file would smooth any normal wear.

I keep small brass brushes for cleaning things, in a drawer within arm's reach behind where I stand at the lathe. Solvent such as mineral spirits helps with sticky gunk. (Or turn dry wood instead!)

Accidental catches are indeed a thing, but they should be banned to history as experience teaches tool control. If not, there are other solutions.

JKJ
Click to expand...
Not everyone does it, but I see it with lots of turners (well over 200 taught since 2017 in beginning classes). Some have to be told a number times before they get out of the habit. The guy I bought my Harvey lathe from must have had some horrendous catches when he was learning to turn hollow forms. Apparently, he took a file to the Robust tool rest that came with the lathe, but pretty well butchered it. I'm thinking about removing the rod and replacing it with a D-Way. Those rods are s-w-e-e-t for skew work!
 
John K Jordan said:
I've never ONCE even thought of tapping a tool against a tool rest.
Click to expand...

Me neither......but, whacking gouges on a chunk of scrap wood does the same thing without damaging anything.

=o=
 
Gabe Latner said:
My shop's tool rest has developed some nicks that make it "bumpy" when I'm sliding a gouge along.

What causes these?

And is there a way to fix it besides taking a file to it?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
The bumps that you're talking about are caused by catches. There's nothing that i know that will get rid of them, but thankfully, with much use, it'll slowly get to be smoother again.
 
I got out of the habit of tapping my tools on anything after breaking a handle that had some cross grain in it. I now wipe them off with shavings.

robo hippy
 
Rick Jarosz said:
The bumps that you're talking about are caused by catches. There's nothing that i know that will get rid of them, but thankfully, with much use, it'll slowly get to be smoother again.
Click to expand...
A file will get rid of them. Run the file the full length of the toolrest, keeping the file in the same plain for the full stroke. Then roll the file a degree or so for the next stroke, repeat until the knicks are gone, you'll be back in business in a minute or three. Inspect your tool rest before each turning session (or during as needed) and touch up as needed, but always file the full length of the rest to avoid bigger hills and valleys. Here's a still photo below. I shot 15 seconds of video showing it, but I don't use any video hosting sites to share it. A smooth face block of hardwood with some 60 grit sandpaper will work as well, but probably a bit slower than a file, but sand it the same way as the file.

The file I'm using is a "Nicholson 8" Handy File", available at finer Home Depot stores everywhere for $10, manufacturer link below. I keep it at my lathe and use it as necessary. It has a course double cut side for stock removal, and a finer single cut tooth side for those smooth finishing strokes. This will clean up cast iron and mild steel toolrests in a jiffy. Hardened rod toolrests are likely too hard for a file. A wire brush (or specific "file card") will clean the filings out of the teeth.
www.crescenttool.com

06601NN 8" Rectangular Double/Single Cut Handy File - Carded - Crescent Tools

Count on Crescent Tools to get the job done. Get the 06601NN 8" Rectangular Double/Single Cut Handy File - Carded here.
www.crescenttool.com www.crescenttool.com
1000010120.jpg
 
I attached a small piece of office carpet on the tailstock to clean sandpaper but one of my friends uses it to tap the tools. I just warned him if he taps anywhere else he'll be invited to change targets on the shooting range.
 

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