tool recommendation

[ahoiberg]

can someone recommend a tool for me (a scraper of some kind) for smoothing out the bottom of my bowls? my bowl gouge control isn't that great yet and my bottoms come out a little lumpy...

thanks.

 

[robo hippy]

I prefer big heavy tools as they just feel better in my hands, and properly used can give you just as fine of shavings as any other tool. This would be 1/2 to 3/8 thick, and 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 wide. You can also reach a bit farther off the tool rest with them. I prefer the half round scrapers, to the round nose ones. You can get a slightly better shear angle with them. For the bottom of the bowl, there is also a specialized gouge for that. It some what resembles a spindle roughing gouge, but instead of being ground square across the top, the corners or edges are slightly ground back, and the bevel is at about 80 degrees, very blunt. This makes it possible to ride the bevel across the bottom of deep bowls, and the corners won't dig in. Do not use a spindle roughing gouge on a bowl, DANGER!!!!

robo hippy

 

[Gordon Seto]

How about this one?

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=49135&cat=1,330,49233&ap=1

The Kelton Shear Scraper. The shaft has 50° flats milled on both sides for ideal shearing angle. Very heavy duty, the flat on tool rest gives better support than tilling the rectangular scraper to a shear scraping angle. Don't have to fight the rotating torque.

The cutter is laminated with wear resistance material on top. Never grind the top.

Gordon

 

[Joe Greiner]

Do you have the tool rest as close as possible to the bottom surface? (To maximize leverage) By "close" I mean just far enough away to put the bevel in air. Aside from that, an Oland tool, store-bought or DIY, takes a very small cut and is almost (but not quite, of course) totally resistant to catches or other unwanted movement. For this tool, "close" means with the end of the shank in air.

Joe

 

[ahoiberg]

well, that's one of my problems is that i can't get my tool rest any closer. maybe i need to invest in a 's' shaped tool rest to get close to the bottom of the bowl. the homemade tool i have usually works OK on bowls but there just isn't a way for me to get closer on this particular bowl, it's 4 or 5 inches deep...

 

[Malcolm Smith]

There are a lot of different style scrapers out there nearly all of which have advantages and disadvantages in different situations. The main points I would make is that scrapers should be long and heavy and that they should be reasonably easy to sharpen. One wants the head to be moveable along a curve inside a bowl. It shouldn't fit in the curve. If it does, a tool that is smaller or has a tighter curve will work better. It was mentioned before but you need a rest that extends into the bowl.

Malcolm Smith.

 

[Richard Baker]

Andrew,
Sounds like what you really need (me too) is a curved tool rest that fits inside the bowl. A bowl gouge will make a smooth cut across the bottom if not hanging way beyond the tool rest. Axis of the tool horizontal and approximately perpendicular to the wood, flutes pointed up at 45 degrees left (10-1/2 o'clock), start at the center and pull toward you, or vice versa. This gives a shear cut not unlike shear scraping. Motor gently for finish cuts. Or not so gently when hogging your way toward the bottom.

There are usually several ways to do anything, and this is only one of them. Other ways work well too.

 

[MichaelMouse]

can someone recommend a tool for me (a scraper of some kind) for smoothing out the bottom of my bowls? my bowl gouge control isn't that great yet and my bottoms come out a little lumpy...

I don't use a bowl gouge for final cuts, and I do use a curved rest a lot of the times for close support. But I also don't try to make flat bottoms on the inside, which makes the others possible. If you're going for a flat bottom, you'll want to scrape to keep the ridges away. Won't gain you finish points on some woods, but that's the way things go.

It's always best to support any tool, regardless the section, as close to the work as possible, so consider a nice curved rest as a way to put sixty bucks into stimulating the economy. http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s...ests___S_Curve_Bowl_Rest___s_curve_rest?Args= is what I've been using. Also had a couple of the bent metal types that I bought on others' recommendations. Don't use them.

Any edge can scrape, so your skew, if ground straight across, or your straight chisel would do just fine. Angle of attack will vary with the bevel angle (s), but you shouldn't push up into the wood. The flat boys will tell you about backbevels (negative rake) and York pitches, but we turners just change the angle until we get the best scrape. If you're hot to buy a new tool, you've got a lot of solutions out there. Most all of them do what you can do with what you own. One thing I would recommend is holding them overhand. All will chatter if you don't, and if you're trying to turn them up on edge a bit to get shear, you'll chop the rest. You can use the knuckle on your little finger as a basic depth gage as easily as you can your index finger underneath.

Gouge and angle I use for all finishing cuts are shown here outside, where the hand isn't in the way. http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/?action=view&current=CherryPeelOut.flv

Narrower gouge of the same type used inside, but mostly covered up by the hand. http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/?action=view&current=CherryPeelIn.flv Also shows the rest. The angle at which the shavings are ejected gives a good idea of how the flute is oriented.

BTW, I've owned the rest for probably fifteen years, and I think I filed it once after digging a scraper while trying to shear.

 

[Joe Greiner]

Sorry I mis-read your question. My suggestion applied more to the outside bottom. Although it still applies to the inside with a curved rest. Even so, the Oland tool with a long handle and a substantial shank can reach fairly deep without significant chatter. Ditto holding overhand.

Joe

 

[Rob Wallace]

Come on down....!

Andrew:

Now that the Spring '08 semester is over, I need to finish a bunch of bowls to replenish my gallery sales from the past few months; I also have a bunch of new ("green") blanks to rough out, so if you'd like to see what tools I use (gouges and scrapers), send me an e-mail and we can arrange a time for you to come over and visit.

I also will be doing a turning demo on Main Street (in front of Gallery 319) as part of the Ames ArtWalk on June 6th..... stop by if you can.... I'll be roughing out small bowls on a Jet Mini, and making lots of "showy" airborne shavings - always captures people's attention! Stop by if you can (runs 5:00 to 8:30 pm)!!

Cheers,

Rob Wallace

 

[Charlie Knighton]

stop by

ahoiberg, i believe you hit the jackpot with your post 😀

 

[ahoiberg]

no kidding! rob, i'll take you up on that.

thanks everyone for your recommendations. i think a new tool rest is definitely in my future. does anyone happen to know which of the posts fits in a jet mini? that's all i've got for the time being!

thanks again.

 

[pnwradar]

i think a new tool rest is definitely in my future. does anyone happen to know which of the posts fits in a jet mini?

You need a rest with a 5/8" post. Lee Valley sells a shiny modular set, as does BestWoodTools. Woodcraft has a cheaper curved rest, you pick the size post -- that's what I went with.

 

[georgetroy]

I have attached outriggers to many of my scrapers. Using this method reduces catches and helps my arthritis. With the outriggers I can reach deep inside, if there is no room for a curved tool rest. Over the years I have gotten more catches or tears with scrapers more than any other tool. Nose dives will hurt you and the wood.

 

[rsser]

Richard Raffan recommends having a few curved scrapers of varying radii. The closer the radius to your bowl's the easier it is to get a flowing line when you work to remove the corduroy. That said, it's wise not to use more than half the scraper's cutting edge. Using more is asking for catches as is coming right back up to the rim.

 

[Doug M Jones]

Join the Club--Literally

Andrew,
The Ames woodworkers club has a turners group that meets 1 Sunday afternoon each month. I have been turning around a year and have learned a lot from Rob, Roger, Carl and the other experienced turners. I always learn something and its just a good bunch of guys to hang with.

Rob is our leader so ask him to put you on the email list for upcoming meetings when you get together.

You would be more than welcome,

Doug

 

[Odie]

well, that's one of my problems is that i can't get my tool rest any closer. maybe i need to invest in a 's' shaped tool rest to get close to the bottom of the bowl. the homemade tool i have usually works OK on bowls but there just isn't a way for me to get closer on this particular bowl, it's 4 or 5 inches deep...

As others here, big heavy scrapers are the ticket for getting a good contour in the bottoms of your bowls. I like the round nose, thick scrapers for this purpose.

Also, I have one of those S-curve bowl rests. I don't use it very much because it never did work as well as it should. The problem I've found is the post mounts interfere with getting it up close to the bowl interior. It works better with scrapers than it does gouges......reason being that big cast iron surface limits the angle which the tool can be held. It looks like it should work, and theoretically it should......but it just isn't as good as it probably looked in the engineer's eye when it was still on the drawing board, or conceptual stage. Mine is shown on the left in the photo.

I have a couple of Oneway curved tool rests that work much better for me. I can get them closer to the bowl surface. These rests are massive, and work well to dampen early vibratory oscillations. These are the two on the right in the photo.

otis of cologne

 

[Malcolm Smith]

Why does one need more than one scraper? If one thinks about what is happening when one applies the curved surface to the wood, remembering that with scrapers only the edge touches the wood, as the cut is made, the amount of the cutter that is applied rapidly increases unless the movement of the cutter is along the surface being cut. Without movement along the surface, there is a sense that the tool is being 'grabbed'. If one has been working with a gouge, it's easy to forget this and apply the scraper the same way one has been applying the gouge. Again, scrapers with different curves are needed for different curved surfaces. The tool needs to be applied delicately and, again, needs to be moved along the surface being cut. scrapers and gouges are very different.

Malcolm Smith.

 

[Odie]

Why does one need more than one scraper?

Malcolm Smith.

Malcolm.......

I suppose it all depends on the radius of the inside curved surfaces of your bowl....on both, interrior and exterrior of the bowl itself. The smaller the radius, the narrower the scraper tool will have to be. The very small diameter bowls will either require smaller angles of grind, or thinner scrapers.

Massive scrapers with bulk and weight tend to be a little more stable than thin narrow ones......they resist the tendency to have catches. I tend to use the former whenever I can, and go to the latter whenever circumstance necessitates.

Some scrapers, with long sharpened sides (ie: the Raffan grind) are great for some applications, but your wouldn't want to use this style of sharpening for everything. I've found the Raffan grind very useful on some species, but for other types of wood, a more direct application of the tool will work better. I have scrapers like this, but use the round nose and straight grinds for other specific purposes.

For many turners who never attempt any shapes other than the most basic, I would think that a single scraper might satisfy all his needs, but other turners will need an "arsenal"!!!!

About 30yrs ago, I can remember Rudy Osolnik saying he did many of his bowls entirely with a single scraper......didn't even use gouges! If I'm not mistaken, his favorite was a simple 1/2" wide round nose. He was a master, who knew how to manipulate his tools, but most of us wouldn't wish to limit our horizons that way!

otis of cologne

 

[Malcolm Smith]

Again, the reason to have different sizes is so a curve can be chosen that's less than the curve on the wood that one is cutting. This prevents the entire curve making contact. This is mainly for the larger scrapers but applies to the smaller ones as well. Nearly all the tools I have are Glaser but I do have the Raffan tool you refer to which comes to a point behind which are curves. It's a very handy tool. Also, I have a couple of Hamlet scrapers in the fancier of the two steels they offer them in. They have good weight being fairly thick and the steel is quite good though the Glaser is a bit better.

Some turners leave a burr on the top of the scraper when they sharpen it. I flatten the top and polish the edge so that it is extremely sharp. It will cut very well as long as the top isn't curved over. Polish the top first and then the end of the tool. The Glaser tools especially are able to keep this edge. A burr tends to not last too well though this might be different in different steels. The reason is very clear if one examines it with a good loup.

I'm sharpening with a Tormek which in my experience will produce a better edge or at least will give one more choice as to the edge one is producing.

We all do things a bit differently which is why this furum is interesting and useful.

Malcolm Smith.