Took my first box class today.

[Jamie Straw]

Took an all-day box class today, it was way more fun that I even expected! One of our chapter members conducted the class, he and a couple other members have a whole system they use to produce these (usually) small boxes. Not that they can't be big, but small is sweet.😀 Blanks are rounded between centers and then mounted on a glue block that has a threaded insert in the base which threads to a mandrel they've had manufactured. A lot of the work was done with negative rake scrapers, and I got pretty darned good at sharpening one.

Once we got the bottom and top hollowed and tenon/rim made and fine-tuned, put them together and shape as one. It's so easy, because the pieces always go back on the lathe perfectly centered. Instructor is very detail-oriented, so we learned to pay attention to fit and finish, how not to ruin a box right at the end😱 and be proud of our work when done. Also learned to use a couple of new-to-me tools. I'm will make another one tomorrow just to get the steps anchored, and then go back to stoppers and other holiday presents, but definitely want to get back to boxes at the end of December!

 

[Kevin Campbell]

I'd love to take a class like that. I didn't realize they were made that way.

 

[hockenbery]

Sounds like a fun time.
I have not seen glue blocks used,in box turning.
Glue block would conserve wood too.

I would have to turn 3-5 to get the process down.

Did you use CA to attach the glueblock?

 

[Mike Johnson]

There are a number of ways to make lidded boxes, you can also turn a tenon and mount the billet in an adjustable chuck.
You can also turn a recess in the billet and mount it to an adjustable chuck for turning lidded boxes.
If you turn the lidded box to an inside diameter that will fit your adjustable chuck, this simplifies finishing the top and the bottom of the box.

 

[Jamie Straw]

I had to go through the whole process to really "get it." If you're turning boxes frequently, using a glue block threaded onto a mandrel is a time saver. You can mount and remount and the blank or part and it's always perfectly centered, it goes on and off quickly (unlike a chuck). The glue block (yes, with CA) does save wood (and he turns many exotics). As much as I was inclined to use my chucks, it was apparent that the mandrel system would be more streamlined. I'll try to take some pictures tomorrow. G'night!

 

[Pete Blair]

Sounds like a process that could be used in the turning of many small items that require re-chucking.
Can't wait to see the photos

 

[hockenbery]

In kids classes we used 2" faceplates to mount each box part.
Kids lack the hand strength to pressure fit a lid.
The face plates also allowed the kids to use drill bits on big lathes to drill out the lid and base.
This let everyone finisha box in a 2.5 hour class.
Then they turned a piece of fake leather to line the bottom to hide the lead point of the Forster.

 

[Jamie Straw]

I'd love to take a class like that. I didn't realize they were made that way.

I wasn't around when the guys developed this idea, but the two originators are professionals who make beautiful boxes and many other woodturning items. I'd bet others have thought about using a mandrel system, but they "got 'er done." I use Ruth Niles' mandrel system for making bottle stoppers, so this fits for me.

 

[Kevin Campbell]

Thank you, Jamie. I haven't done any bottle stoppers, and don't have a mandrel. It might be a good project for a collet chuck, though I don't have one of those either.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Thank you, Jamie. I haven't done any bottle stoppers, and don't have a mandrel. It might be a good project for a collet chuck, though I don't have one of those either.

Hah! the mandrel is cheaper, methinks, though I haven't priced collet chucks for awhile. If you wanted to start with stainless, you can get a starter set from Ruth Niles on this page. Or scroll down further and just buy the mandrel and stub bit, make your own draw bar. By turning on a mandrel, you insure the stopper is concentric and centered when you insert the stopper into the hole. You'll notice that Ruth's stoppers are a bit more than ones from.....Penn State, for instance. But the quality is absolutely tops, guaranteed not to corrode. She totally stands behind her product, made in USA.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Sounds like a process that could be used in the turning of many small items that require re-chucking.
Can't wait to see the photos

OK, got some snaps done today.

My first box, on the glue block, with some natural Watco applied. Note, shape was not a priority -- was just getting the process down. I intended to have more of a shape, but had an ooopsie with the lid, which gave me very little room to shape the bottom:


Here's a glue block showing threaded insert (to receive mandrel), and the box bottom on its glue block:


Extra Wolverine platform with riser block for sharpening the bottom of negative rake scraper (upside-down sharpening), producing great burr on the top:


Scraper in position [upside-down] on platform. Sharpening is so fast!


That is the 3/4" NRS. I used a 1/2" inch for most of the work, and sometimes a 1" borrowed from the instructor, which is beveled all the way around (ambidextrous as it were). We had the option of using a spindle gouge to hog out the insides of these small boxes, but the NRS does a good job and is extremely user-friendly. Also does a good job at keeping the nub out of the inside bottom.

 

[Fred Belknap]

Jamie how do you attach the riser block to the toolrest platform?

 

[robo hippy]

I first saw those mandrills when I took a class from Bonnie Klein. She would take a 1 by 8 inch locking nut with the plastic ring (standard nut won't seat on a mini lathe but locking one will), mount that, turn out the plastic, then drill out a hole in a waste block, and then epoxy that in place. Really helps to have a bunch of them. Boxes are fun, but pretty labor intensive, especially if you are threading.

Who was the instructor?

A riser block on that platform can be done by adding magnets to the wood. Not sure on upside down sharpening for scrapers. Jimmy Clewes used to prefer them saying they were sharper than standard burrs, but he didn't have a CBN wheel at the time.

Up to Seattle for a demo on Thursday... Oh no, a Duck in Husky country, and they actually beat us this year.... It did take a Duck coach to make them respectable again......

robo hippy

 

[Bill Boehme]

Why would you need the riser block?

 

[john lucas]

Hmm. I've been turning a lot of boxes lately. Well I call them ornaments with a hidden price but they are just boxes that look like ornaments. I mount the blank between centers. Cut tenons on both ends for the chuck. Mount in chuck. Part it where the lid will be. As I'm parting I am making the male tenon on one piece. When I continue parting the rest of the way through I leave the tiniest little tenon on what will be the female side. Then mount the lid in the chuck ( in this case it will have the female side). Hollow the lid and then sneak up on the fit. It should be easy since you left the tiniest little tenon from the original cut. Turn until this little tenon just barely disappears and the lid fits on the bottom tenon the way you want it. could be loose, could be tight or could be snap fit. In my case I'm putting threads on it. Anyway when you get the fit snug put the bottom in the chuck with the lid attached and turn the whole thing. When you have it turned and sanded remove the top and then hollow the bottom and adjust the fit of the male tenon to what you like.
I was teaching a class this weekend and a guy wanted to know how to make a lidded box. I made one in 3 minutes. Slow by Chris Stott's standards and it wasn't a pretty box but did show the process.

 

[Jamie Straw]

I first saw those mandrills when I took a class from Bonnie Klein. She would take a 1 by 8 inch locking nut with the plastic ring (standard nut won't seat on a mini lathe but locking one will), mount that, turn out the plastic, then drill out a hole in a waste block, and then epoxy that in place. Really helps to have a bunch of them. Boxes are fun, but pretty labor intensive, especially if you are threading.

Who was the instructor?

A riser block on that platform can be done by adding magnets to the wood. Not sure on upside down sharpening for scrapers. Jimmy Clewes used to prefer them saying they were sharper than standard burrs, but he didn't have a CBN wheel at the time.

Up to Seattle for a demo on Thursday... Oh no, a Duck in Husky country, and they actually beat us this year.... It did take a Duck coach to make them respectable again......

robo hippy

Hmmm, not quite on the Bonnie thing. I have two glue blocks made with her method. They mount directly on the spindle, not on a mandrel. The one I showed mounts on a mandrel that threads to the spindle. Here is a picture of the mandrel mounted on the spindle.


Here are the two glue blocks, Bonnie's is on the bottom.


Those big locking nuts are OK, but I've had them come out over time. If I'm to make a number of boxes, or make some from greenish wood that needs to sit, those little inserts are quick to thread in, super-tight, and I can make a dozen or two very quickly. I thought about using magnets, but can't be guaranteed the riser wouldn't slip (magnets are great for fighting "straight up" force, but not so much on resisting lateral force). I've sharpened right side up until I tried the other way on Sunday. Great difference in the burr! For a standard scraper, I will still sharpen the "normal" way, for safety reasons -- don't want a burr that aggressive on a standard scraper. But for a negative rake scraper, a strong burr is no danger. The NRS is quite docile.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Why would you need the riser block?

It places the tool [grinding upside-down] at center. Without the riser block, the tool is well below center (angle of platform more apparent at the far wheel in the picture). Might be OK, but not my preference for sure.

 

[Clifton C]

Jamie, thanks for this thread, I really enjoy box making and am always looking for new ways. I understand the mandrel, insert and glue block. Can you explain the sequence of steps for the top of the box using this method? I’d like to give this a shot using Ruth’s bottle stopper mandrel, what do you think?
Thanks…
c

 

[Bill Boehme]

It places the tool at center. Without the riser block, the tool is well below center. Might be OK, but not my preference for sure.

View attachment 21170

I forgot that you were sharpening your scrapers upside down. It makes sense to me now.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Jamie, thanks for this thread, I really enjoy box making and am always looking for new ways. I understand the mandrel, insert and glue block. Can you explain the sequence of steps for the top of the box using this method? I’d like to give this a shot using Ruth’s bottle stopper mandrel, what do you think?
Thanks…
c

I'll try, Clifton.😀 Not sure I have everything down yet myself. For my box, the lid fits over a "tenon" on the bottom. The bottom was turned first, leaving the tenon a little thick, because it will lose some thickness when marrying the two pieces and adjusting the fit. Once the bottom's done, the lid is mounted on the mandrel, estimated rim marked, and the inside hollowed and the rim thickness refined. Then the lid was parted off, glue block removed, and the bottom put back on the mandrel. This is where teeny, tiny adjustments were made to the tenon to approach a snug fit with the top (on, off, on, off, on, off goes the switch). He had us put a very slight taper and a tiny bevel on the outside edge of the tenon during this process, which makes it easier to tell when you're getting close, making the rim pretty much straight at the end.

Once the lid will go super-snugly onto the bottom, we shaped the top of the lid while it's jammed onto the box. taping the seam between the two pieces for insurance. Having finished shaping the top, the tape came off and the two pieces were "married" -- in this technique, using the side of a 1" negative rake scraper that's ground all the way around both sides, to smooth the outsides together following the desired shape. [and if anyone a year from now is wondering, finish by parting off the bottom from its glue block, jam-chuck it, and finish the bottom of the bottom.]

Did I miss anything? Probably.😛 As to using a stopper mandrel, seems like it should work for smaller boxes. The trick may be getting inserts that fit the mandrel thread and really bite into the glue block and hold firmly. These inserts have beautiful, sharp threads of steel (not brass) that really hold in the glue-block wood. For the stopper mandrel, assuming they're from Ruth, using her inserts would be your best bet, even though they're brass. Find them on this page, below the Jerusalem stones.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Jamie how do you attach the riser block to the toolrest platform?

It's screwed on from the bottom with pan-head screws. As I mentioned above, I considered magnets (but got talked out of it). Platform was very easy to drill. One nice thing about the riser is that once the angled relief cut is made for the wheel, it's easy to set the platform very close to the correct angle and then just test with an already shaped scraper. It takes two swipes around to touch up the burr on the scraper, and then back to the lathe.

 

[Clifton C]

So it sounds like two glue blocks per box?

 

[Jamie Straw]

So it sounds like two glue blocks per box?

Yes, one for each part. Make 'em 2.5" long or so, and you can get several boxes out of them.

 

[Mike Peace]

Are those mandrel mount glue blocks side grain or end grain?

 

[Jamie Straw]

Are those mandrel mount glue blocks side grain or end grain?

The ones from the class (the small ones) are end-grain. I seem to remember that Bonnie Klein recommends face-grain, but I could be wrong. Jamieson, it appears, uses face-grain. I expressed my surprise at the box class that the glue-block was end-grain, and that seems to be passed down from an earlier devotee of this glue-block method. Opinions?

 

[Mike Peace]

Threads are definitely stronger in side grain as are glue joints. End grain to end grain glue joints are much weaker than side grain joints. For small pieces, I still sometimes grab a spindle scrap with a tenon and use for a glue block. But mostly I use a chuck in the manner John Lucas described.