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To quit or not to quit

G

Gretch Flo

Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Messages
1,223
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Location
Haslett, Michigan
Part of a big "burl" I got 2 weeks ago. Cut out a piece


Left in shavings 2 weeks and started to tackle tonite. These cracks have not gone far at all. I have seen this years ago in maple. Such a pretty wood piece,-hated to give up.


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Have superglued some of the "cracks (some are not "real" )tonite and wonder if it's worth the risk tomorrow to continue. Such a pretty piece of wood!!!!!.
 

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Hi Gretch.......😀

I wouldn't give up quite yet. It would be better to see that block of wood in person, but if you think the cracks are not deep, you might think about mounting up and see if you can eliminate them......make a smaller bowl. When you rough out the interior, if you're still not sure, you might think of using some stretch wrap on the exterior while you're doing it.......

Good luck, and remember about "line of fire". (I know I didn't have to remind you of that......but, just sayin' for the benefit of everyone else!)

ko
 
If the cracks are on both sides I wold forget it. If not and the cracks do not exit the top of the blank it may work. I have noticed that when the crack exits the top it will separate even if it is glued.

Another option is to cut the top off and have a smaller bowl, which may be less likely to break with less weight spinning.
 
I have noticed that cracks with pigment around them have probably been there a long time and maybe don't "go anywhere" except maybe enlarge somewhat or move such that they have a ridge later when rubbing your hand across. I agree with gerald about the crack going to the edge. The current piece does not, except at the bottom where I have to chuck it.
I will use my new roll of clear plastic and snug "er" down.
This wood reminds me of a piece I turned 10+ years ago-forgive the crappy "finish" of the supergluing-I wasn't sanding and getting the superglue mixed in. The cracks didn't
go any where, but just became more palpableDSCN2044.JPG DSCN2045 (640x360).jpg DSCN2047 (640x360).jpg
 
I don't know how much you value not having a major injury. For me? I won't turn anything like that. I don't have a shortage of wood, and look at woodturning a LOT DIFFERENTLY after reading Lynn Yamaguchi's blog. Having limited to no sight in one eye and years of recovery to never get back to original condition has no appeal to me at all. I don't care how pretty the wood is, I won't take the chance!
 
As a relative beginner, I have no opinion about that particular piece of wood. However, I do have an opinion about basing a decision on what happened to Lynn. In her blog, she admits to at least 3 mistakes she made that led to the horrific accident and injuries that occurred. Had she not made those mistakes (not donning her face shield, not turning the speed down, not using plastic wrap instead of duct tape and she "may have even been leaning in to look"), sounds like it's likely the only news would have been losing a form blank to nature. Might have been a catastrophic failure, but it would have been at least somewhat contained, happened at a lesser speed, and defended against by a shield.

Personally, I'll add her story to the others I've heard that keep me respectful of what wood can do. I'll also use it to remind myself to always, always, always double-check that safety steps have been taken before turning on the lathe.
 
I will admit to occasionally turning that piece of really crappy wood. When I suspect a crack that could be hazardous and decide to turn it anyway I use strapping tape to hold it. Much stronger than plastic wrap or duct tape. Duct tape is kind of like CA glue in that it will tear very easily if something catches or cuts the side. Nylon filament or what I call strapping tape won't cut no matter what. If I have already sanded and or finished the outside I cover it with blue painters tape first and then the strapping tape. This way there won't be any sticky tape residue to try and remove.
AS an amateur we often spend too much time on a piece that should be tossed. I'm getting a little better at it but I still find myself in that stubborn mode where I figure I'm going to save this piece no matter what. In reality I should just toss it and pick up some good wood and get back to work. There is that pride of saving a piece and sometimes it has led to some quite innovative procedures where I've carved, painted, filled, burned etc to try and save it and sometimes actually improved it. 🙂
 
Obviously there must be a solid wood at the mounting point.
If there are defects I stop frequently to inspect the wood at the mounting points and connecting structural soundness.

I like to turn hollow forms with voids that come from bark inclusions, hollows in the wood, Or unusual contours in the wood. But I do so by being sure there is a strong connection to the lathe and that major areas of the turning are structurally connected with Solid wood.

I have turned a few hollow balls less than 5" diameter by positioning a ring shake to be near the center. I hold the pieces together with pressure between centers, shape the ball, hollow the two halves, glue together, finish turn.
This makes a hollow ball with no visible glue line. This process is quite dangerous for newer turners who are getting catches. Perfectly safe for turner who will not get a catch.

The main thing is to work safely.
Take small steps outside your comfort zone not giant leaps.
 
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Just got back from being out of town 3 days. I am alive and well. I also made another small bowl from the same burl, but a little smaller.
I find that duct tape torn in thirds lengthwise and stretched over the area of cracks (base to the top if need be) can be very strong- I can't break, but I can tear transversely. . Bear in mind these are small burls (finished product of the first one photoed is 6 3/4x4". and then a smaller one. Stood out of line of fire, wore safety glasses with shield on top).These were green-not sure how long cut or tree died. and not flinging water at me. Put them in Al's recommended box.-4 days ago. Just checked and still the same as when i left them but maybe I can feel the cracks a little. (expected.) Will photo in a few days and show). -
 
Turning large works mandates accommodating cracks. Here are some thoughts:
  • avoid super glue - use a low viscosity epoxy like Aero Marine 300
  • You can inject the epoxy into a crack with a #22 hypodermic needle - cheap at feed stores
  • The epoxy can easily be colored to a shade or two or more darker
  • invest in a jeweler's scale at around $100 - best investment you'll ever make - mixing small batches of epoxy "spot-on" works
  • Learn to turn at a lower rpm
John
 
I don't know if this is the same as Enviro-Tex but if so, that's available in smaller quantities at hobby lobby or on Amazon. Not too sure about injecting it though. Never tried, and it takes 24 hours to reach a hard state.
 
Mark Hepburn said:
Is this similar to enviro-Tex? If so, you can get that in smaller sizes at Hobby Lobby or Amazon.
Click to expand...

Probably. I'm glad this thread/discussion started because it led to me discovering the early stage of a mess-in-the-making. I had a package of System Three Mirror Coat sitting on my tablesaw (which is for all practical purposes just an expensive table now). When I picked it up, I saw that it was starting to leak, but fortunately not too badly yet. Apparently the plastic bottles degrade after about a year. The top of the tablesaw cleaned up OK, but now I need to find something to use the Mirror Coat on soon before the stuff all leaks out of the bottles. Maybe since my tablesaw is now a de facto table a good layer of Mirror Coat would complete the transition from utilitarian shop equipment to trendy kitchen decor.
 
Back to TO QUIT OR NOT TO QUIT issue, cracks are a fact in the life of a woodturner. Perhaps not so much for the segmented or pen guys, but for us really cool guys that start with green logs, we learn to deal with it.
The beauty of the AeroMarine 300 is:
  • it's low viscosity - you can inject or brush
  • mixed to a "peanut-butter slump" with colloidal silica, it takes on low specific gravity and high viscosity - a huge advantage on larger cracks
  • it mixes well with pigments - I found the System-3 pigments work great. Further, the pigments seem to penetrate the colloidal silica - no little white specs
  • While I'd never use epoxy on the outside as a finish, as a coating for the inside it's great - I can pour in, wipe it into the grain and remove excess. While maybe not ideal for the bowl guys, it's great for retarding water-vapor in the inside.
  • it's easy to mix a thimble full when using a jewelers scale - trying to eyeball dabs or resin and hardner is iffy at best.
Go in with some other guys and break it into plastic dispensing bottles - you'll be astonished how a command of epoxy will extend your range of work. The piece in the attached pic could not be done without epoxy.
 
John Tisdale said:
Back to TO QUIT OR NOT TO QUIT issue, cracks are a fact in the life of a woodturner. Perhaps not so much for the segmented or pen guys, but for us really cool guys that start with green logs, we learn to deal with it.
The beauty of the AeroMarine 300 is:
  • it's low viscosity - you can inject or brush
  • mixed to a "peanut-butter slump" with colloidal silica, it takes on low specific gravity and high viscosity - a huge advantage on larger cracks
  • it mixes well with pigments - I found the System-3 pigments work great. Further, the pigments seem to penetrate the colloidal silica - no little white specs
  • While I'd never use epoxy on the outside as a finish, as a coating for the inside it's great - I can pour in, wipe it into the grain and remove excess. While maybe not ideal for the bowl guys, it's great for retarding water-vapor in the inside.
  • it's easy to mix a thimble full when using a jewelers scale - trying to eyeball dabs or resin and hardner is iffy at best.
Go in with some other guys and break it into plastic dispensing bottles - you'll be astonished how a command of epoxy will extend your range of work. The piece in the attached pic could not be done without epoxy.
Click to expand...


John.......After a long experiment session with CA, and not having satisfactory results, I have settled into using 2-part epoxy for filling voids and cracks. I probably don't mix in quantities that you do, but I've never had much problem with "eye-balling" the two parts prior to mixing.

A problem with epoxy is "oozing" prior to it setting up. There doesn't seem to be any drawbacks to re-applying the epoxy to where is settles to below the wood surface......but, I have found that applying a breathable cloth tape over wet epoxy helps hold it in place without the oozing being as much a problem.

The epoxy I'm using is sand-able, and close to being clear. Sometimes, it's very noticeable, and sometimes not......depends on the color of the wood and grain pattern. Regardless, when it's done right, it seems to be an acceptable looking repair of cracks and voids. I've found that small cracks and voids are actually appealing to the eye, and have a natural look to them.....these, I usually leave as is. Big cracks and voids need something to give it a boost in visual aesthetics......
 
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012.JPG 013.JPG 004.JPG 005.JPG 007.JPG Follow up on bowl in #1 (6 1/2"x4") now dried and finished. Included are 2 smaller ones (6 1/2" x2" ) from the same burl which I think is a maple onion burl. Please tell me if I am wrong about this being an onion burl.
First one is a side view of 3 bowls with Dewey helping in left background. The middle one is the original posted picture of #1 when it was not hollowed. #2 is the top view of the 3-all having cracks.
#3 picture is top view of the largest bowl. #4 is a closeup of the cracks of one on the left. #5 is the bottom showing cracks on the bottom. Duct tape was used on the outside while hollowing. After drying, the cracks didn't progress, but some did elevate requiring sanding to make a smooth surface. Glad I didn't quit
 
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